Topic: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...

[Major A Payne]

Well, my own stance remains the same even if it was a bit "out of sorts" so to speak. I do know one thing. There are times when WZ does put some a certain amount of high humour to his posting. I just love that last bit "Who knows? Maybe on a subconscious level I even enjoy dealing with individuals who try and break the rules. Dangling the carrot, as it were. Immature, perhaps, but being dead isn't known for it's abundance of distractions". LMAO

[Raven Night]

These new rules gonna supercede the older ones, or are they gonna be in addition to ?

Fact:
1. Nightsoft is a commercial software company.
2. Nightsoft does pay royalties to Paramount
3. Nightsoft does retain their own lawyer.
4. Any from your own hand:

Raven_Night wrote:
Well.

I can be very strict. The only comment I really have problem with is the idea that I dont support other games nor do I allow kitbashing of my models. Both are silly notions.

SFC is my home, plain and simple. I am and always will be loyal to that wonderful game that started it all IMO.

Second, there are lots of kitbashes of my designs out there (some better than my original)...I dont allow porting to games where people would rather I dont have a presence out of respect for thier presence, and I dont allow bashes without our EULA included. Otherwise you can do what you wish.

After all, it gives me a free model....considering it becomes our property the moment you post it.

Nuff said. Back to your regularly scheduled program now in progress....

http://bridgecommander.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=21009&highlight=

Is this another attempt to absolve Nightsoft of any legal responsibility concerning copyrights and patents of 'Star Trek' material, or are you just planning ahead (I smell a legal Nightsoft release coming), and after a model is posted do we need your permission to kitbash our own models ??

Well, it was spurned by my conversations with canon ship creators, and after reading some of the complaints in this community, and considering my active nature here (modding is much quicker and easier in SFC) I felt a change might be in order to satisfy some of the concerns of this community and the rights of canon starship creators. The rule change will be just that...it will replace the old rule. If the rule is changed, it will allow the same protections we offer for original work to be in place for canon work as well, as long as the author links to the page we set up, a page with the original designers on it, in the readme they provide with the file. As you can see, in the past we did not allow models without permissions on our site, but did allow someone to place an announcement on our site as long as the file was on another site, and credits were posted properly. The complaint was simple...some modelers just dont want thier products posted anywhere else, or posted by certain individuals. I wanted to find a way to accomodate the wishes of this artist without usurping the rights of the original modeler...the person who first created the model working for Paramount. So, in short, as long as the artists links to the page we create that lists the original modeler for the canon design, we will offer the same protections we offer for original work.

Now, as to your second question, I am guessing you meant to ask if you need permission to kitbash one of our models? Absolutely not. Please, feel free to change, use, slice, destroy and generally pillage any design we release...just be aware of two notable points. Using any product we release, in whole or in part, in any product you create makes that product our property. Second, you must include our EULA, provided with the original model, in every subsequent product you create that contains our product in whole or in part.

Note that ownership does not mean we take control. We have to legally retain control over our product, but we wanted to encourage kitbashing and open use, so this was the comprimise. We have only exerted our rights twice, when owners of a particular mod put forth extremely restrictive rules for the use of thier mod, which contained our product. In one case our product was removed for download, the other we shut down the website. We absolutely do not tolerate a controlling attitude when it comes to our products...if you use our stuff, you have to let other people do what they want with it. It is that simple. You have no rights to restrict, control, or dissuade any further work on your product or distribution if it contains our product in whole or in part.

I hope that answers your questions. We are currently working on a way to allow open use of our models in all products. I am working on some kind of mod format deal, since we cannot claim ownership of that particular format.

[KBF MalaK]

Thanks RN, was curious is all.

I'm just a bit steamed still from the

After all, it gives me a free model....considering it becomes our property the moment you post it.

thingy, I just wanted to make sure that an original model posted in a Nightsoft site doesn't become Nightsoft's property to do with as they see fit. My concern was with original models, not kitbashes of canon, or Nightsoft's models.

[Raven Night]

Thanks RN, was curious is all.

I'm just a bit steamed still from the

After all, it gives me a free model....considering it becomes our property the moment you post it.

thingy, I just wanted to make sure that an original model posted in a Nightsoft site doesn't become Nightsoft's property to do with as they see fit. My concern was with original models, not kitbashes of canon, or Nightsoft's models.

Ah, I can see the misunderstanding. Absolutely not. The only item we would have any claim over would be one that has used our stuff in it. Putting a product on our site does not make it our property. We have thousands of models and such up for download on BCU for instance, and hundreds more on our commercial website, all the property of thier respective owners. That comment just meant that if you kitbash one of our models, the kitbash is ours as well.

[Star Dragon]

 That sounds fair. Oh and Raven, Thank you for going through the trouble of making such a compilation! (it certainly won't be done any time soon) 

   When it's finished, can you post an example of how it should be presented in the overall "Mod Read Me".

[S31-Riptide]

It would be better precieved if your licensing agreement was 4 or less sentences.... no one trust a lawyer (Human nature not too lol) and few trust overly wordy, crafted documents.  These documents can (and will be) interpretid in many different ways.  I preffer the KISS method myself. 

Overly simplified, but you get the picture.

Subject 1's take on this agreement
You can use and abuse if:
You give us proper credit,
You make it just as availible as we made ours availible, to the public,
We will play fair if you play fair.


Subject 2's take on this agreement.
It could also be interpritted as:
Beware, use at your own risk or:
1) we will claim ownership of whatever body of work it's in.
2) we will have your body of work removed from other sites.
3) we will force your site and work off the web.
4) we will take legal action, even if you win you will be broke from all the lawyers fees.

Everyone will take it a different way.

It all depends which side of the fence your are on, and the mood you are in when reading... It is sad, but the written word can be the most mis-understood form of communication sometimes.

The more legal agreements I see these days, the more I debate as to continuing the modding that I do... It is sad, but I do not want to have to take a trip the a lawyers office everytime I want to use a model in one of my Mods, which for most of us, is a hobby.  I've had a mod of mine pulled from a site, just because a 3rd party thought that I did not have permissions, when infact I did.... I've never been so Pee'd off in my life( all of 5 minutes anyways...)  It was resolved in time, and a nice working relation ship was formed. 

Where has the community trust gone?  Yes every community has a bad apple or two, but the community if give time will filter these people out, even the really bad apples lol with worms in them  lol and mold lol.....

Keep It Simple Silly!!!!





ps... just a pet peive in terminology

Modelers make Models
Kitbashers mod Models
and
Modders Modify Game Content ie.. files settings etc.

I'm a modder, not a modeler as my artistic talents are in numbers and settings and not in 3D rendering lol
though I still try! lol


Cheers


and if anyone gets angry at this post... stop... relax... put a smile on your face and re-read it... I've never been too serious, there is no fun in that! lol

[Raven Night]

It would be better precieved if your licensing agreement was 4 or less sentences.... no one trust a lawyer (Human nature not too lol) and few trust overly wordy, crafted documents.  These documents can (and will be) interpretid in many different ways.  I preffer the KISS method myself. 

Overly simplified, but you get the picture.

Subject 1's take on this agreement
You can use and abuse if:
You give us proper credit,
You make it just as availible as we made ours availible, to the public,
We will play fair if you play fair.


Subject 2's take on this agreement.
It could also be interpritted as:
Beware, use at your own risk or:
1) we will claim ownership of whatever body of work it's in.
2) we will have your body of work removed from other sites.
3) we will force your site and work off the web.
4) we will take legal action, even if you win you will be broke from all the lawyers fees.

Everyone will take it a different way.

It all depends which side of the fence your are on, and the mood you are in when reading... It is sad, but the written word can be the most mis-understood form of communication sometimes.

The more legal agreements I see these days, the more I debate as to continuing the modding that I do... It is sad, but I do not want to have to take a trip the a lawyers office everytime I want to use a model in one of my Mods, which for most of us, is a hobby.  I've had a mod of mine pulled from a site, just because a 3rd party thought that I did not have permissions, when infact I did.... I've never been so Pee'd off in my life( all of 5 minutes anyways...)  It was resolved in time, and a nice working relation ship was formed. 

Where has the community trust gone?  Yes every community has a bad apple or two, but the community if give time will filter these people out, even the really bad apples lol with worms in them  lol and mold lol.....

Keep It Simple Silly!!!!





ps... just a pet peive in terminology

Modelers make Models
Kitbashers mod Models
and
Modders Modify Game Content ie.. files settings etc.

I'm a modder, not a modeler as my artistic talents are in numbers and settings and not in 3D rendering lol
though I still try! lol


Cheers


and if anyone gets angry at this post... stop... relax... put a smile on your face and re-read it... I've never been too serious, there is no fun in that! lol

Certainly a wise post. Unfortunately, we do not have any choice with respect to the legal statement. Im working on a solution....trying to find a way to get approval to make some designs that we will not own, so we can release them with an open licence.