Topic: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...  (Read 5196 times)

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Offline Raven Night

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I've been thinking about this one for a while. One of our original posting rules with respect to models is shown below.

Policy on Mods

Kitbashing and Permissions
Nightsoft supports kitbashing. We ask that permissions are secured as a courtesy to the artist, and we will not allow any product to be stored on or released from our properties without the express permission from the original artist. If proper credits to the original artist are displayed and placed in the readme and the post on the boards, however, we will not block an announcement on our properties for release of the product from a server or site that is not owned by Nightsoft EVEN IF SPECIFIC PERMISSIONS HAVE NOT BEEN SECURED. Nor will we block a user in this instance. If your work is truly original, IE; not based on copyrighted material, the preceding rules do not apply, and your work will be treated by Nightsoft like copyrighted material, with all rights and privileges thereof. If a public effort is made to secure permissions and the result is no response to inquiry, we will assume that permission is given and treat the post as such as long as credits are listed in the post and the readme, until such time as we are to think otherwise. Nightsoft reserves the right to modify this rule at any time and to decide to remove a post that displays a product regardless of whether permission has been secured or not. We reserve all rights in this manner, and no moderator or staff member is required to explain his or her actions or decisions to this respect.

 
 
Note About Public Release
Nightsoft strongly urges all kitbashers to secure proper permissions. We respects the rights of original artists, but it must be said that public release of your work, outside of copyrighting that work, is public domain and opens it to alterations web wide. If you do not wish to have your work altered, you should not base your work on copyrighted materials. Original work is, however, protected by proprietary rights around the world. It should also be said that any artist is welcome to approach Nightsoft to secure compensation for their model, in order to facilitate universal permissions for kitbashing if so desired.

 
Now, I still feel strongly about the Canon argument. When you create a model and display based on someone elses design, without securing the proper permissions, (note, without even asking), and then complain when someone else takes your copied work and does the same, you are being hypocritical in my opinion. If your work is original, you have every right to have your work controlled...however, if your work is plagerized, then expect the same to be done to you.

A good example is the Connie. Someone makes a Connie, posts it with rules. Now, that modeler is treated like the designer, even though that is not the case...this is a copyrighted design that was created by someone else, and no attempt was made to secure permissions to make it. Lets say some jerk decides to post that model without crediting the original artist, ignoring his hard work in making it. To call such a thing THEFT when the original is obviously a copyright violation is exactly what I am speaking of. The complaint with respect to work involved is valid, however. It is common courtesy.

Now, this rule has recieved complaints, even from some of my friends, straining friendships I have had for many years. There are those that think this policy does not respect the original author's work. That is why I am considering it for changes...I think that some kind of comprise can be had here.

So here is my dilemma. As a commercial entity, I am dead set against copyright violation. We had to pay Paramount Studios just to be able to use the Star Trek name, even if that meant we never developed a product. We have restrictions we have to follow. We cannot design and release canon models. Quite a few modelers here release them all the time without restraint, or even original credits. When was the last time anyone credited Jim Martin, Tony Meininger, Gary Hutzel or Herman Zimmerman for the Defiant design? Also, what happens if the original designer dies? How does one secure permissions then?

However, as a personal modeler, I can see and respect the argument that alot of hard work goes into model making, and needs to be respected. So, I am considering revamping the rules. After some correspondance with those that actually have the right to say something about the use of thier product, this was the response:

Paramount does not believe in constraints on our fans, but at the same time the original authors, as well as Paramount itself, must be credited and repsected. It takes alot of hard work to create the designs used in the games and television shows/movies that people enjoy, and too often this is ignored. According to law, we own any Star Trek product, in whole or in part, but rarely invoke this right. It is our right however. If modelers wish to protect work that they do, they should base the work on original ideas. Aside from that, they should at least credit the company and individuals that actually own the proprietary rights to the design.

I took this as saying this....we dont mind if you copy our ships, but make sure you credit the original guys that made it. Not just the company, but the designers as well. Then you have a basis for claiming the work you have done should be respected, since you have shown equal respect in kind.

So this is what I am proposing. The change in the rules would not allow a non-original model to be posted, on our property or not, as long as the original modeller has given proper credit themselves. If you, as a modeler, is willing to give proper credit to those that actually designed the ship you are releasing, then we will protect your work as if it is original.

Any suggestions or comments are welcome.

As an added note, I recieved another email today on the subject. I cannot divulge the authors name, by request, but I did get permission to post just a portion of the letter. Here it is.

It took us almost 4 months, from concept to bluescreen model to finish the *blank*. 14 people were involved in the ships design, including post-production. What infuriates me the most, honestly, is the arrogance that fans have when they copy my work and claim it as their own. Where is the courtesy that I and the development team should receive for our hard work? In my opinion, fans have no right to complain about someone using thier work without credit. The day they have that right is the day they credit me and my team.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2006, 09:52:05 am by Raven Night »
Never let your ego think or act for you..........me.


Offline Major A Payne

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2006, 10:07:15 am »
Agree but also disagree. The thing is theres an extremely fine line between actual copyright and intellectual copyright. Does that actual mean that if I make a completely scratch built model that it belongs to someone else?? Simple answer: No. Whilst the original concept design the new model is not theirs to claim copyright to. The additional thing is, how many of the original creators actually base their own work of someone elses design (even loosely designing a ship, station or other item on someone elses work requires some form of crediting). Its the same with creating a new game. I mean how many shoot 'em ups are giving credit to the original space invaders creators?? Do those who create a new FPS give any credit to those who made the first FPS game?? Do those who create a new RTS based game give credit to the original creators of the genre?? The thing is you can argue symantics as much as you like but at the end of the day that very thin line appears.

Offline Raven Night

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2006, 11:35:06 am »
Agree but also disagree. The thing is theres an extremely fine line between actual copyright and intellectual copyright. Does that actual mean that if I make a completely scratch built model that it belongs to someone else?? Simple answer: No. Whilst the original concept design the new model is not theirs to claim copyright to. The additional thing is, how many of the original creators actually base their own work of someone elses design (even loosely designing a ship, station or other item on someone elses work requires some form of crediting). Its the same with creating a new game. I mean how many shoot 'em ups are giving credit to the original space invaders creators?? Do those who create a new FPS give any credit to those who made the first FPS game?? Do those who create a new RTS based game give credit to the original creators of the genre?? The thing is you can argue symantics as much as you like but at the end of the day that very thin line appears.

And you make an important point, so I will clarify some points on copyright law.

Copyright is automatic, meaning if you create something original, either in Literary Works, Visual Arts, Performing Arts, Sound Recordings or Serials/Periodicals it is covered under US copyright law. No registration is required....however, if you wish to bring suit based on the law specifically, you must register your work with the office. You can of course sue someone without malice, but your case is much stronger if your work is registered.

Copyright law provides specific protections with respect to using one's original work. Granting credit does not automatically protect you from litigation, nor does changing the product from the original concept UNLESS it is at least 30 percent different from the original copyrighted item. An example would be the automobile. No royalties have to be paid to Ford motor company based on the copyright (remember, I am speaking of copyright, the concept of a horseless carriage, not the patent, the specific design of the automobile....a common mistake) even though all automobiles are essentially the same. Also, a copyright holder grants the user harmless by refusing to take action, intentional or lack thereof, therefore allowing the usage by default. Only litigation demonstrates a copyright holder's desire to protect one's work.

That said, Paramount's copyright is quite extensive, and goes beyond simple ship design. Using the name Star Trek, a registered trademark, or the words "warp drive", "phasers", etc, would be considered copyright infringements and open you to litigation, as well as patent violations.

A patent violation is actually a crime. A copyright violation is a civil matter.

Now, when you take an original patented and registered design, say the Defiant for instance, and refuse to provide credit for the original authors, you are doing two things....you are claiming that your use of the design is harmless under the definitiion of harm according to copyright law, and that your use is not original, therefore has no copyright protection.

That means anyone can use your work without harm, since your use of the original work assumes lack of harm on the original copyright.

Now, what does this mean? This means, from a legal or civil standpoint, you are bound to claim harmless, in a court of civil matters, any harm on yourself from use of your "model", in order to avoid a claim of harm with respect to the original author. Allowing your work to be used openly, without restriction, tends to discourage harm claims from the original author. Nightsoft uses just such a claim.

With Nightsoft products, all claims of harm are suspended as long as certain specific rules are met in our released licence. That means, in laymans terms, you can do what you want with that product as long as you let anyone else do the same, and you understand that we claim ownership of the product without requirement of compensation. That is our legal precedent on the matter, and most other companies are the same on non-patented items.

It costs me money to copyright my designs. I fully intend to prosecute anyone that violates our EULA by claiming ownership on any product that contains our products, in whole or in part, and that includes restricting access to, or changes thereof, of the product. We have already filed and won two lawsuits in this respect, though we chose not to seek compensation...instead we simply had the product removed in one instance, the website shut down in another.

Now, in the EULA for SFC it specifically states that anything released in MOD format is property of Paramount. It also states in Paramount copyright usage guidelines that any and all copyrighted or patented items under ownership by that studio, or Viacom, is restricted to permission only use and release. That means, if you make a connie, it is thier property if they so choose to exercise it in a court of law.

Courts have been lenient with copyright violations when they were demonstrated to be harmless and two conditions existed...the open unrestricted use of the product by others, and proper credits listed with the product. In almost every case where those three conditions did not exist the court found in favor of the originator.

I hope this helps clear up the issue.
Never let your ego think or act for you..........me.


Offline I, Mudd.

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2006, 12:30:38 pm »
Hullo ... This is Raven Night with your wake up call SFC Community...

LOL ... Great thread, Raven.

My only peeve has been downloading location issues. If I built it, I'd like to see it downloaded from my site. Of course, I have zero control over that issue, so it's not a huge headache for me.

I've said it before, there is nothing inherintly creative about modeling the Enterprise, Defiant, Moya, Space1999 Eagle - whatever you've seen on TV/Movies. Not that it doesn't take skill to do those things, it does, but you're not flexing any creative juice muscles in the process unless you deviate from the provided design in some significant way.

There is some intellictual creativity in designing new ship classes for a given genra, but ultimately, I'm/you're just building sandcastles in their sandbox. There's nothing wrong with that, and it can be lots of fun, as long as you acknowledge who's sandbox you're in.

:)

I, Mudd.


Offline S31-Riptide

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2006, 12:57:45 pm »
Quote
What infuriates me the most, honestly, is the arrogance that fans

DOH!!! I thought we do it for the fans... if we did it for ourselves then we wouldn't be putting it on the web.  Yes credit where credit is due is a must.   If everyone just took a softer approach to the permissions etc... there would be much less problems.  But some people insist on extreme control over there work.  I avoid these models like the plague myself.  I love Raven Night models... but I'll never use on in any of the mods I work on.... even Outalance and there terms are starting to concern me.  IMHO there are not enough of the old school model makers with the old... "Just leave the read me file in place" permissions.  I gravitate to those model makers as "Asking" can be hard when there email addies change, or they just moved on to new games etc. 

Quote
As an added note, I recieved another email today on the subject. I cannot divulge the authors name, by request, but I did get permission to post just a portion of the letter. Here it is.
  As to this section...... I KNOW WHO IT IS..... NA NA NANANA!!! lol

Gotta have some fun here!

And I Mudd sums it up best here....
Quote
I'm/you're just building sandcastles in their sandbox. There's nothing wrong with that, and it can be lots of fun, as long as you acknowledge who's sandbox you're in.

LOL I don't think it could have been said any better Dear Sir!



Offline Raven Night

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2006, 02:04:09 pm »
Quote
What infuriates me the most, honestly, is the arrogance that fans

DOH!!! I thought we do it for the fans... if we did it for ourselves then we wouldn't be putting it on the web.  Yes credit where credit is due is a must.   If everyone just took a softer approach to the permissions etc... there would be much less problems.  But some people insist on extreme control over there work.  I avoid these models like the plague myself.  I love Raven Night models... but I'll never use on in any of the mods I work on.... even Outalance and there terms are starting to concern me.  IMHO there are not enough of the old school model makers with the old... "Just leave the read me file in place" permissions.  I gravitate to those model makers as "Asking" can be hard when there email addies change, or they just moved on to new games etc. 

Quote
As an added note, I recieved another email today on the subject. I cannot divulge the authors name, by request, but I did get permission to post just a portion of the letter. Here it is.
  As to this section...... I KNOW WHO IT IS..... NA NA NANANA!!! lol

Gotta have some fun here!

And I Mudd sums it up best here....
Quote
I'm/you're just building sandcastles in their sandbox. There's nothing wrong with that, and it can be lots of fun, as long as you acknowledge who's sandbox you're in.

LOL I don't think it could have been said any better Dear Sir!




Believe me, I wish that I didnt have to be so restrictive on our models. Unfortunately, I cant be the only one to make the decision since this is a business. My fellow partners in crime feel that since we have to pay to be able to use the Star Trek name, we should control what products they end up in. Mike is the one that snuck in the whole "use our stuff, dont act like what you make is your stuff" thing. Basically, I agree with it. If you use our models, you should allow people to modify anything that has our products in it without problems.....since we are letting you do it, you should let them do it. This is why Mike put in the whole "you use our stuff, your stuff becomes our stuff" clause. This way we can prevent greed on all fronts.

Unfortunately this has the side effect of keeping us out of alot of the community mods...after all, who wants to turn over ownership or control of a mod they slaved over to us? The easiest way to avoid that is just to leave our models out.

We are currently trying to get permission to make a few canon models. If we can, those models will have NO restrictions.....meaning we wont own them, so you can do with them what you please.
Never let your ego think or act for you..........me.


Offline Starforce2

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2006, 04:14:24 pm »
I agree about the outalance terms concering me bit. It doesn't fit what I feel outalance was created to encourage.  We don't exsist to be anal, which is why much of the time the only legal stuff I ever will stick ina  readme i's raven's, because I'm part of his mod. Beyond that, credits to the model makers listed as modeler, not designer (if it's canon) is enough. I do not have time to figure out who all made a canon ship. The ifnormation is not always avalable, atleast not easily, although soemtime on ex astris it will say what it is. Beyond that soem canon ships we all know who made it, the makers of startrek, which "makers" is a general term for anyone that put effort into making any part of a given episode. I don't have the time to painstakingly search and type out the history every tiem a canon ship passes through my hands and alot of other people don't either. True trek fans know who you are, or atleast know where it really came from so the Trek people have nothing to worry about.

Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2006, 05:10:09 pm »
Good stuff gents +1 to ya

It's amazing how much this carries over into other aspects of the game(s) as well.  Respect to others and their work .... (not to mention all the legal stuff) ...  always a good thing.

BTW...  If ya get the chance Raven please review the info I sent ya ...  just to make sure I properly understand the application of what you have stated here.  It would be appreciated.

thanks
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intermech

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2006, 06:01:17 pm »
Yeah, I am sure Chevrolet asked permission and paid royalties to Chrysler.



Even if two people model the exact same design from scratch, it is impossible for the two models to be exactly the same.



Why is Nitesoft using this board to develope corporate policy?



And why I am asking questions, about how much does Paramount charge an outside company to advertise their copyrighted name "Star Trek?"

Offline Raven Night

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2006, 06:50:46 pm »
Yeah, I am sure Chevrolet asked permission and paid royalties to Chrysler.

Hehe. No doubt.


Quote
Even if two people model the exact same design from scratch, it is impossible for the two models to be exactly the same.

You are, of course, correct. There was a time when Paramount was pretty militant about usage, but they have become more lenient as of late.

Quote
Why is Nitesoft using this board to develope corporate policy?

BCU policy, not corporate policy, and it is mainly because there are a few in this community that take pause to this rule, so I wanted to modify it to appease those patrons.

Quote
And why I am asking questions, about how much does Paramount charge an outside company to advertise their copyrighted name "Star Trek?"

If you are asking how much do they charge for copyright usage? It varies widely, but fees can range anywhere from 50 dollars all the way up to 2.5 million. It depends on what you are using it for, and the expected profit from the use.
Never let your ego think or act for you..........me.


Offline Starforce2

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2006, 07:23:22 pm »
http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/matt-damon/matt-damon-could-get-chance-to-bed-greenskinned-nymphomaniac-beauties-in-star-trek-prequel-182395.php


Perhaps the various authors of startrek should be lest worried about getting their names on the little text files that come with our connies and BOP's and more worried about how the franchize is going down the toilet?

Offline S31-Riptide

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2006, 08:11:09 pm »
Starforce2, that link is ever so very very disturbing lol NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo!!!!

Offline Star Dragon

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2006, 08:22:02 pm »
I second that Starforce2...


   Raven, that was a very clear message (straight from the source so to speak).  It's also what I secretly felt as well, Paramount employee's made it , it's theirs. Want to control something, make something else. Can't be more reasonable than that. It's very fortunate they understand how important the fan base is to the franchise and allow us to manipulate their properties (within reason).

  As for the .mod defualt ownership, unless someone is going for professional use I don't think many would put a future commercial use model in that format then. For a portfolio, adding the blurb, "Model origonally made by X-the author, @date, now owned by paramount @date" would suffice and prove you made it and then voluntarily transferred ownership." Correct?

  In the end regarding use, theft, and controversey. Isn't it really about truth? Paramount owns Trek, X-author makes ConnieMKIII, and Scumbag Y downloads it and posts it somewhere saying "Look what I made" - yeah as if he/she could model a cube if there wasn't a button for it :D

  I prefer to call it fraud. Since they got it from public source the only thing they are stealing is representation of creation. IE, "They made it". True they can't profit from it in any way but they do it for whatever sick reason (pride? respect? attention?) A horrible and very hurtful lie... Fortunately, communities police their own and have LONG memories.

   And AS a Community, no matter if you are a veteran or a newbie, the game is all that really counts. Raise up those who deserve it and lower the few who step out of line, but remember WE are the community, no matter if you are a modler, texturer, sound person, or end user. You are not alone, an island to yourself.  Be there to support, learn, and enjoy what each has to offer weather it's a new model or just a kind word (tinged with constructive criticism).


[Damn that was good]...  ;D

Offline exadvent

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2006, 01:49:50 am »
Just asking for a clarification on one point.  If you create a new setting or timeline, like Mudd's mirror universe and Earth First fleets or Intersteller Machine's Terra Prime Mod you own the rights to it.  So if anyone wants to make a ship for that setting  even if it is all their own work they need to get your permission or compliy with your use policy.  Am I right on this point?

intermech

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2006, 05:46:52 am »
Terra Prime is an open universe that needs to be expanded. I created it outside of Star Trek to be free of all that copyright garbage. Anyone is free to add to it with out my consent. Art and creativity should not be regulated by law.

Offline Star Dragon

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2006, 06:32:33 am »
  Heh, funny story for you.

   Raven scared the crap outta me a while back. I DL'ed the Scorpion 2 from a Ludi-pack, Mailed him (Ludi) for permission, got the greenlight, and then stated finishing the rough conversion. Few weeks later I'm getting on a lot more Treks sites and post a test screenie of it on BC forums and Raven (forgot if it was a PM or a open post) got all official and man did I feel dirty (although it was unintentional).

   That was my introduction to "Mesh Theft" and how modler's (and others) are from time to time NOT getting the credit they deserve.


Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2006, 07:55:05 am »
IMHO .. a good rule of thumb ..

If it is not your work (or idea) ... check with the person to who it belongs.  Here in this community since a great deal of it belonged to Taldren / Paramount it should always be credited as based upon "xxxxx" ship (etc) from that series.  If it is a new concept ship or design  (ie the USS Mako or my version of the Titan) then you should consult the person who make the mesh.  This does not mean that asking someone who considers themselves an authority or spokes person.  Ask the individual who is responsible for the design.  This has been, for the most part, a time honored tradition here ...  and is a very good practice.

You know wheather or not a particular ship design or bash is yours or not.  Just writting a credit in a folder does not necessarily mean that you have permission to do so.  I think perhaps this is a point that often presents a bit of a rub.  Sometimes that are those who simply dont even acknowledge the author ..  etc ..  and that causes additional, unnecessary difficulties.

Yes, we understand that all of this is based upon "Trek" concepts from Paramount ...  (please refer to earlier acknowledgement concerning the development of Trek ). It should also be noted that from time to time we do things outside of Trek .  (ie the "Gunstar" from "The Last Starfigher")  AV did not take credit for the design; only the mesh and components he was responsible for.  (another good example of HOW to do it right).


I think that the points that have been made here are excellent points.  Respecting the work of others and honoring it as Raven (and a couple of others as well) is always the best practice for ANY community, both legally and ethically.
If you aim at nothing:  you WILL hit it every time !

Offline Raven Night

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2006, 08:20:34 am »
I would like to point out, if I didnt make it clear, that all modelers rights with respect to thier work must be honored. That includes, but is not limited to proper credit, but also permissions. Here is the dilemma pointed out to me by someone (will remain unnamed) that I was chatting with that actually designed one of the canon ships in Trek. They noticed that one of the many versions of thier design was listed on BCU, and the author was "laying down the law" so to speak about proper usage and credits. This upset him a bit, considering it was not the modelers design, but HIS design. Actually, more accurately, his and other workers in his office, as well as some post production tweaks. He asked me why I was allowing this to happen, considering no effort is being made to credit him or his team.

Now, here is the problem. He could go to his former bosses and say "hey, there are guys on the net that are posting thier versions of this ship without my permission or yours. They are claiming the items as thier property. Paramount, of course, would then act, and we know the results of that.....websites getting shut down altogether, products pulled...it is pretty ugly.

Noone is saying that an author does not have the right to protect his or her work. What is being said is that if you expect credit to be compulsory on a product that you have copied from someone else's work, you need to credit the original authors as well, otherwise you are being hypocritical. After all, if you dont give credit to the first guy that made it, why shoudl the next guy give you credit...and so on. Was it not hard work for the original creator to create it? Was it not difficult to build the physical model or CGI? Are you indicating that somehow you have more rights than the person that invented the ship or concept in the first place?

My proposal is this. I am going to compile a list of all of the original authors of canon ships, and put it on a web page. I will get help from those in the know, so it should be accurate. This way, an author of a canon model can simply link to the page, and then proper credit is given...he found this satisfactory, and I think it would work for all.

Here is a good post from Wicked Zombie, one of my friends that, by example, caused me to rethink the rules at BCU and other Nightsoft sites...

That raises another interesting point - why even post a ship if there's going to be so many rules and regulations? Clearly, if a modder doesn't want to put up with any bull then they should just keep their work to themselves. However, if everyone started doing that then there wouldn't be much of a community. Being bitchy and egotistic regarding our work is our way of countering the criticisms and complaints and occasional insults that often spring up. It helps balance things out and give us an avenue to vent so we don't get burned out or ultimately go off on anyone for nitpicking the 3rd phaser on the starboard warp pylon being off by .0003 centimeters.

By the majority, the reason for some modders' having stringent rules isn't because we're tyrannical egomaniacs. It's just a way to catch people's attention and to show that there are people behind those creations that are for download. CGI websites have rules that require credits be listed in any images that are rendered for the very same reasons. Most of the time as long as someone asks first before releasing any altered work, a modder isn't going to bite their head off for it. I myself don't care if a ship is used in a big mod or campaign and am often surprised when I get emails asking permission to essentially fly the ship in the game it was meant for. The way I see it, if you have to download 500 megs and one of my ships just happens to be tossed in there, then it isn't going to make much of a difference. As long as the readme's intact, the whole issue is null.

I rarely see anyone do this for the shear glory and attention - those few that have, clearly aren't around anymore for obvious reasons. As Tus stated, most of us simply build the ships for the hobby aspect, something to pass the time and stage off the boredom. Some even, like me, look at building a ship as a challenge and get a sense of accomplishment when something is built and finished. That's the same mentality behind playing video games or doing a jigsaw puzzle.

Now as far as releasing those ships is concerned, and thus, running the risk of the whole "copyright, ownership, theft, etc." issue, I can't say I have a real answer to that. I could tread out the "giving back to the community" routine, but even that isn't an honest answer. I simply post the ships because I know how lame it is to be stuck with those stock models all the time. Sure, some may (and do) criticize my restrictive nature as not being a team player, or not sharing, or gods-know what other reason they've managed to conjure up for themselves. Those are often the same people who just don't get how a modder thinks and don't care about anything but getting what they want.

Who knows? Maybe on a subconscious level I even enjoy dealing with individuals who try and break the rules. Dangling the carrot, as it were. Immature, perhaps, but being dead isn't known for it's abundance of distractions.
Never let your ego think or act for you..........me.


Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2006, 09:22:03 am »
Dude !

Raven !

You really have a handle on this ... 

BRAVO !

+1 again  (I'd give ya more but that might be misinterpreted as well ...  besides ..  heheh   I cant !  The system wont let me !)

 ;D
« Last Edit: July 17, 2006, 10:14:51 am by OlBuzzard »
If you aim at nothing:  you WILL hit it every time !

Offline KBF MalaK

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Re: Considering a change in the rules for Nightsoft Network sites...
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2006, 09:33:24 am »
These new rules gonna supercede the older ones, or are they gonna be in addition to ?

Fact:
1. Nightsoft is a commercial software company.
2. Nightsoft does pay royalties to Paramount
3. Nightsoft does retain their own lawyer.
4. Any from your own hand:
Quote
Raven_Night wrote:
Well.

I can be very strict. The only comment I really have problem with is the idea that I dont support other games nor do I allow kitbashing of my models. Both are silly notions.

SFC is my home, plain and simple. I am and always will be loyal to that wonderful game that started it all IMO.

Second, there are lots of kitbashes of my designs out there (some better than my original)...I dont allow porting to games where people would rather I dont have a presence out of respect for thier presence, and I dont allow bashes without our EULA included. Otherwise you can do what you wish.

Quote
After all, it gives me a free model....considering it becomes our property the moment you post it.


Nuff said. Back to your regularly scheduled program now in progress....

http://bridgecommander.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=21009&highlight=

Is this another attempt to absolve Nightsoft of any legal responsibility concerning copyrights and patents of 'Star Trek' material, or are you just planning ahead (I smell a legal Nightsoft release coming), and after a model is posted do we need your permission to kitbash our own models ??

"Artificial Intelligence is not a suitable substitute for natural stupidity"