Topic: I wonder how long it will be before people sue Airbus for building junk?  (Read 2598 times)

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Offline Jack Morris

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 At least 122 die in Siberia plane crash By HENRY MEYER, Associated Press Writer
47 minutes ago
 


MOSCOW - A Russian passenger plane carrying at least 201 passengers skidded off a rain-slicked runway in the Siberian city of Irkutsk on Sunday and plowed through a concrete barrier, bursting into flames. At least 122 people were killed, the Emergency Situations Ministry said.

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Fifty-eight people were injured in the accident, the second major commercial airline crash in two months in Russia. The commission investigating the crash said preliminary information indicated that the braking system on the Airbus A-310 operated by airline S7 had failed, Russian news agencies reported, citing officials it did not identify.

The plane was carrying 193 passengers and eight crew members on a flight from Moscow. At least 14 passengers were younger than 12, airline spokesman Konstantin Koshman said.

Many of the children were headed to nearby Lake Baikal on vacation, according to Russian news reports.

Emergency Ministry spokeswoman Natalia Lukash said three people whose names were not on the passenger list were pulled unconscious from the wreckage. It was not clear if they had been on the ground at the time of the crash or were flying as unregistered passengers.

Some of the survivors owed their lives to a flight attendant, who opened an escape hatch, the ministry said.

The plane veered off the runway on landing and tore through a 6-foot-high concrete barrier. It then crashed into a compound of one-story garages, stopping a short distance from some small houses.

A witness said he heard a bang and the ground trembled.

"I saw smoke coming from the aircraft. People were already walking out who were charred, injured, burnt," Mikhail Yegeryov told NTV television.

"I asked a person who was in the Airbus what happened, and he said the plane had landed on the tarmac but didn't brake. The cabin then burst into flames."

The aircraft's two flight recorders, or "black boxes," were recovered and were being deciphered.

Transport Minister Igor Levitin suggested the rainy weather was a factor but did not rule out a technical problem.

"The landing strip was wet. So we'll have to check the ... technical condition of the aircraft," he told Russian state television.

Levitin added that the pilot had radioed ground control to say the aircraft had landed safely before communication was cut off.

Airline official Alexander Zyubr said the plane was in good condition, according to RIA-Novosti.

S7, formerly known as Sibir, is Russia's second-largest airline, having been carved out of Aeroflot's Siberian wing after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Cash-strapped and saddled with aging aircraft, regional airlines whittled out of Aeroflot were once notorious for their disregard for safety but their records have improved in recent years.

Irina Andrianova, a spokeswoman for the Emergency Situations Ministry, said it took firefighters more than two hours to put out the blaze. There were two explosions caused by the ton of fuel in the plane, Moscow radio reported.

Russian television showed smoke rising from the wreckage and firefighters clambering on top.

"It was traveling at a terrific speed," the spokeswoman said. She said the front end of the plane was crumpled in the crash 2,600 miles east of Moscow.

Details began to emerge of the chaotic aftermath of the crash. One flight attendant opened the rear escape hatch and let a number of passengers out, the ministry's regional branch said.

Ten passengers managed to escape this way and other survivors, including a pilot, were saved by firefighters and rescuers, ITAR-Tass reported.

President        Vladimir Putin conveyed his condolences to the victims' relatives, who gathered at Moscow's Domodedovo airport, where the plane took off.

A man who said his brother, sister-in-law and their 4-year-old son were on the plane sat on a curb outside a crisis center near the airport fighting back tears.

"They're not on the list" of people in hospital, said the man, who gave his name only as Vyascheslav.

His friend Larissa Kolcheva, a 27-year-old Muscovite, said the three had flown to Moscow from the Moldovan capital Chisinau on Saturday morning and had been on their way to visit relatives in Irkutsk.

"We met them yesterday morning at this very airport. It was great. We spent the day with them seeing Moscow ... Everything was beautiful," she said starting to cry.

In May, another Airbus aircraft crashed in stormy weather off Russia's Black Sea coast, killing all 113 people on board. Airline officials blamed the crash of the Armenian passenger plane on driving rain and low visibility.

In March 1994, a half-empty Airbus A-310 belonging to Russian state airline Aeroflot crashed near the Siberian city of Novokuznetsk, killing 70 people. Investigators said the crash was caused mainly by the pilot's teenage son inadvertently disconnecting the autopilot.

Sunday's disaster was the fourth air crash in Irkutsk in the past 12 years.

In January 1994, a TU-154 aircraft crashed on takeoff from Irkutsk, killing 124 people. In December 1997, an An-124 military transport aircraft crashed in a residential area of the city, killing 72 people. And in July 2001, a Tu-154 Russian passenger plane crashed near Irkutsk, killing all 143 people on board.

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In March 1994, a half-empty Airbus A-310 belonging to Russian state airline Aeroflot crashed near the Siberian city of Novokuznetsk, killing 70 people. Investigators said the crash was caused mainly by the pilot's teenage son inadvertently disconnecting the autopilot.

They are excused from that one, that accident was due to plain dumbarses.  :P

Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Eh, when you're talking about the Russians one has to wonder when the last time those brakes were serviced.

=P

"Sex is a lot like pizza.  If you're not careful you can blister your tongue". -Dracho

Offline Dracho

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Brakes?  Bah... tools of Capitalist to hold back the progress of Socialism.  We don't need no stinking brakes.  Nyet.
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Brush Wolf

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Eh, when you're talking about the Russians one has to wonder when the last time those brakes were serviced.

=P

Or most everything else on an aircraft.
I am alright, it is the world that is wrong.

Offline Just plain old Punisher

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They prolly didn't use enough duct tape.

"Sex is a lot like pizza.  If you're not careful you can blister your tongue". -Dracho

Offline FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC

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Why dont you stop posting Junk here Jack??

If you sell the Russuians a 747 it also will  crash sooner or later. they ignore maintainance schedules,.. they dont use original spare parts,.. they even got drunken pilots lack of iss equipment on their airports etc.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2006, 08:28:53 pm by FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC »
FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC

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Offline Jack Morris

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Wow, somebody is offended, national pride perhaps? I guess that is why Airbus has to redo their "junk" and forfeit on those lucrative Euro community contracts? Do you care to contest that? Dreamliner is coming your way, to an airport near YOU!  ;D

The Luftwaffe could design better aircraft.

Offline Jack Morris

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At least when WE build a plane, the landing gear faces the right direction upon landing on the airstrip.  ;D

Anybody remember that one in Cali recently?  ;)

Offline Jack Morris

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Why dont you stop posting Junk here Jack??

If you sell the Russuians a 747 it also will  crash sooner or later. they ignore maintainancae schedules,.. they dont use original spare parts,.. they even got drunken pilots lack of iss equipment on their airports etc.

We got drunken pilots here, just ask SWA!  ;D They even like to get butt naked in the cockpit. Don't ask me on that one, that is Judge's territory.  ;)

Offline Jack Morris

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Rumor has it that the new motto of Boeing is "All your Airbus contracts are belong to us."

 ;D

stock has been soaring.

Offline FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC

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Wow, somebody is offended, national pride perhaps? I guess that is why Airbus has to redo their "junk" and forfeit on those lucrative Euro community contracts? Do you care to contest that? Dreamliner is coming your way, to an airport near YOU!  ;D

The Luftwaffe could design better aircraft.
Look,the word national pride is absurd in this context.
Airbus is a joint venture and a BS idea from my perspective.
The french worked desperatley to make it look as if it were their baby, but they screwed up by undermining effective communication with the german part by placing sleepers into the company which would form a front,especially towards the German engineers and to make sure they would be the scapegoats.This comming from a french employe,no conspiracy theorie
IF you ask me we shouldnt work together with the French nor the Brits, they will never come down from their WW2  trauma. And my generation is stuffed with stupidity like that!!

In regard to the Dremliner, i wish you the best i hope its not just a pipe dream, like the american "Dream" in general.
Yet i hope  the A380 will pin boeings ass to the wall ,in all friendship of course.;)
FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC

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Offline Jack Morris

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I understand your frustration my friend.

Sometimes we all need to go back and figure out what went wrong?

there's plenty of billions of dollars to float around, even if it was not meant for you and I.  ;)

P.S. I still miss German Bewbies.  :(

Offline Jack Morris

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In regard to the Dremliner, i wish you the best i hope its not just a pipe dream, like the american "Dream" in general.
Yet i hope  the A380 will pin boeings ass to the wall ,in all friendship of course.

I do not invest in airline stocks, too risky.

Now M.I.C. stocks on the other hand, KBR was a steal before 9-11.  ;D

Offline Sochin

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Jack do yourself a favour and look up accidents concerning Boeing before calling Airbus junk.

Offline Dracho

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Sounds like most of these accidents were pilot error or deferred maintenance issues (fancy term for not doing repairs promptly).  Given enough abuse and time, I could make a block of cement malfunction.
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Jack Morris

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Jack do yourself a favour and look up accidents concerning Boeing before calling Airbus junk.

I do not have to, Boeing did it for me.  ;D

 Boeing puts aircraft market at 2.6 trillion dollars, says Airbus flying blind Wed Jul 12, 3:22 PM ET
 


LONDON (AFP) - US aircraft giant Boeing forecast a market for new aircraft worth 2.6 trillion dollars in the next two decades, and claimed European arch-rival Airbus had the wrong strategy to capitalize on it.

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Airlines and freight companies will need about 27,200 new civil aircraft in the next 20 years, doubling the world fleet by 2025, Boeing said in its Current Market Outlook for 2006.

The Chicago-based manufacturer said the new jets would be needed to deal with an estimated 4.9 percent annual increase in passenger traffic and a 6.1 percent rise in air cargo.

Boeing said its air travel growth forecast was similar to one issued by Airbus, which is owned by the European aerospace group EADS and BAE Systems of Britain.

But Boeing said it believed the Toulouse-based Airbus, which has been struggling with production problems and a management upheaval, was mistaken in its focus on bigger aircraft to accommodate the expansion.

While Airbus has developed the 555-seater A380 super jumbo jet to move large numbers of travellers between hubs and onto connecting services, Boeing has focused on extending its 747 jet and developing the fuel-efficient 787 to fly at high frequency between pairs of cities.

Boeing's marketing vice president Randy Baseler told a news conference that the company does not intend to develop any commercial airliners with more than 500 seats.

He said the rapid growth in airplane size envisaged by Airbus had not been seen since the period between 1970 and 1985, "a bygone era of few airplane choices in a highly regulated system.

"In contrast, the Boeing forecast is based on the assumption that airlines will continue to meet air travel growth with more frequencies and non-stop service using smaller, more efficient airplanes," Baseler said.

"Clearly, even using Airbus methodology, there has been little growth in average seats per airplane recently -- average seats per airplane grew only 2.0 percent in the last 10 years. We do not believe this trend will change."

An Airbus spokesman responded to the remarks, saying the company developed products to suit all markets.

"We believe there is a need in the market both for medium capacity long range aircraft as well as large aircraft," he said.

Boeing said it expects Asia Pacific to buy more than a third, or 36 percent, of all new aircraft, with North America taking 28 percent, Europe 24 percent and Latin America, the Middle East and Africa accounting for the remaining 12 percent.

In the next 20 years, Baseler estimated that airlines would buy 3,450 regional jets, 16,540 single-aisle aircraft, 6,230 twin-aisle airliners and 990 jets of 747 size or bigger.

He said single-aisle and twin-aisle jets with between 100 and 400 seats would account for almost all the growth in air travel during the period.

About 65 percent of the 27,200 new aircraft would account for growth while the rest would replace older planes.

High fuel prices and the introduction of efficient aircraft are driving the strong replacement demand, which is about 1,400 jets greater than Boeing forecast last year and is based on a revised projected price per barrel of oil of 50 dollars instead of 25 dollars, Baseler said.

He rejected charges that airliners are a major cause of global warming, saying they accounted for just 2.0 percent of carbon dioxide emissions while representing 8.0 percent of global economic activity.

Stiff competition in Japan
The two large Japanese airlines, Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways, are traditionally very loyal Boeing customers, with that manufacturer's products accounting for about 90% of their fleets. Both airlines have some Airbus products (A300 for JAL, not ordered by JAL but in the fleet because of the takeover of Japan Air System, and A320/A321 for All Nippon Airways, which the airline ordered).

However, ANA have started the transition to an all-Boeing fleet, after the entry into service of the 737 NG and later the 787. A move such as this will leave Airbus with virtually no market share in Japan. Significantly, no orders have been taken for the A380 from Japanese airlines, despite the fact that very large 747 fleets (in JAL's case, the world's largest) are being operated in the country. Airbus has established a branch office in Japan in order to increase the sales efforts. In 2005, one success for Airbus was Sagawa Express' firm order of 1 A300-600F aircraft and 1 option of the same type.[9]Star Flyer, a new airline in Japan, has announced that they may use A320 for their service when the new Kita Kyushu Airport is opened. [9]

In October 2005, ANA ordered 5 A320s, but merely as an interim measure before the 737NG (New Generation) was available. ANA has not changed their mind about retiring their Airbus fleet[9].

A major factor contributing to the Boeing loyalty is the close manufacturing partnership between Boeing and several Japanese consortiums, most notably in the production of the wings of 787. Besides that, airlines in Japan were being consulted by Boeing in the design phase of 777. Even though these manufacturers are distinct from the airlines, the Japanese government is strongly encouraging aerospace cooperation with Boeing, and the tightly-knit nature of Japanese keiretsu corporate networks will ensure that Japan will be an extremely difficult market for Airbus to profit from.