Topic: Army National Guard

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Congrats on finishing basic training!

Going into the guard during these troubled times is a true act of Patriotism, I salute you sir!

[C-Los]

Good Luck and watch your 6 .....

" Semper Fi "

[Anthony Scott]

Oh no, another man lost to the Big Green Machine! aaaaaaaaaaH (passes out)

Just kidding, congrats! Have fun in basic training and for pete's sake forget OCS...try Warrant Officer's School...My Dad was an officer (enlisted to 2nd lt in six weeks) and swore that he should have gone Warrant!

Semper Fi, Carry On

[Sten]

Grats on completing BCT and AIT good luck in the future.

JC

Also, you're more likely to know the vasat majority of your Guard unit if it's in your home town,and nearly every town has one... and it's a LOT easier to get deployed with people that you've known since birth than a bunch of strangers. For instance, my unit made me a gunner from the get-go... because the game wardens that used to chase me for night hunting recomended me as a good shot form a moving vehicle and my uncle (platoon Sgt) agreed.   

Oh, and the Guard is a LOT more laid back... in my unit, if you've made one summer camp, you're probably gonna be called by your first name by everyone there, and if you've done at least one combat tour rank generally disappears altogeather- the only 5 people in the unit I have to call by rank are the CO, our LT's and Top... the rest of them are just Trey (Yawn), Anna, 'G', Sam Ronnie, etc.

This post illustrates exactly why I chose NOT to join the National Guard when I got out. Disabled vet or no disabled vet. When the Guard asked me I started laughing at the MSG and SGM guard recruiters.

The unprofessionalism of the National Guard just never ceased to amaze me. The whole party attitude during their summer vacation from family and jobs. After 14 years of Regular Army and having to go train guard units during the summer. Oh let me list my bitches about the Guard.

Summer 1979 while we are "trying" to teach Tennessee guard how to conduct a patrol. They depart for Ambulance loaded with Beer and Steaks and have BBQ instead.

Summer 1979 New York National Guard. While on Mortar Range Good Ole boy pull a "Watch DIS" hang and drop 81MM moptart round 75 meters from firing position achieving high angle of attack on target. Everyone ran like hell.

Summer 1979 New York National Guard. Another "Watch DIS" moment while on M60 range guardsman decide to see how many rounds can you put through M60 before something bad happens. They replace a good sear pin with a bad one so the gun would keep running then they kept pouring Penetrating oil on the RED HOT barrel until the gun caught fire and the rounds started cooking off.

Summer of 1980 while aggressing against the Maryland Guard as we infiltrate perimeter we smell pot. We move closer to the smell of POT thinking we might take it (we weren't angels either) Instead we find this Guard unit having an Orgy. Leaving grenade and Artillery simulators for them we depart to screaming and loud explosions.

Summer of 1981 Pennsylvania National Guard while attempting to teach land navigating and run a land nav course. ALL the people beat myself and my Assistant to the finish point, load a truck up and go off to the races. WHAT race do you ask...Well this race was called the Race of the Flaming Arsehole. As told to my by the Mayor of the town and LTC of this unit. They were stuffing toilet paper in their butt cracks and drinking a 12 oz beer for each heat (pun intended) then when the Colonel would raise his Saber (yes he was wearing a Stetson and Saber) The toilet paper would be lit on fire. When he lowered his saber they were off to the races.

Summer 1982 PCS to Hawaii

Summer 1983 Hawaiian National Guard Luau on the beach, Then we deployed to Guam, Got my tickets validated in the hotel owned by the unit commanders Uncle. Told no training would be happening enjoy myself for two weeks they were having a home coming instead.

Summer 1984 Once again the Hawaiian National Guard Watched two officers I had just told 'Do not light these fuses by hand" blow them selves up. When one tried to light det cord with a match. The other genius said, Wait SSG S said don't light that by hand lets use a piece of paper instead.

Summer of 85-92 Drill Sergeant (3 years) status and then got shanghaied to teach West Point Cadet every summer for 3 years straight.

When Desert Storm first kicked off I was one of those Active Duty NCOs that was going to be forced to deploy with the 48th BDE out of Georgia. So I am glad your doing your duty in Iraq or anywhere else. But I see the entire party atmosphere of the Guard is still alive and present.

Your picture and comments just brought back every reason I ever had for not respecting the Guard. No decent equipment, lack of leadership, lack of professionalism, lack of meaningful training.

[Capt. Mike]

Fort Bordom...even though I was USAF, the Army runs the SATCOM schools, so I ended up there for a follow-on course in mobile SATCOM...

My youngest son was also there (he was Army) and also went through the SATCOM school...heh, the funny part was they have USAF instructors there, and some of them used to work for me in the field..when they pronounced his name correctly for the first time, then said "I remember you from when you were in the 5th grade" he said he almost puked...

Good luck, and stay away from the snake lady

Mike

[Mr_Tricorder]

Yeah, "Fort Boredom" is right.  I've been here for three weeks and I finally get to start classes on Monday.  I'm actually one of the lucky ones.  Of all of the people who came in the same weekend as I did, I'm in the first group to start classes.  Everyone else may have to wait as long as January to start.  In fact, there are some people who have been here since July that haven't started classes yet.  Most people in the National Guard get their start date sooner because their states don't want to pay for them to cut grass, rake leaves, and trim hedges (like I've been doing all week) while their waiting to get into classes.

[Dracho]

The proper term for what you are doing is "Swing Blade Brigade".

[J. Carney]

Hey everyone,

I survived basic training at Fort Benning and am now at at Fort Gordon for AIT (advanced individual training as a 25U (signal support systems specialist).

Right now I'm on a computer at the rec center (it costs $7.00 per hour to use these computers), so I'm pretty limited on what I can do online.  I plan on buying a laptop soon, though.

Glad you liked Benning. Too bad I didn't have an address... I live about 30 miles away from there. You'd have had another shipper sending you stuff you couldn't eat so the Drills could make you do a lot of pushups you didn't want.

Ft Gordon... couple of my old high school buddies did did their commo training there. They both got in in 1996, the year we graduated. I got in in 2001.

I outrank both of them now.


Have a blast, and remember, just because she's cute now don't mean that you'll wanna take her home to Mom!

The unprofessionalism of the National Guard just never ceased to amaze me. The whole party attitude during their summer vacation from family and jobs. After 14 years of Regular Army and having to go train guard units during the summer. Oh let me list my bitches about the Guard.

March you happy butt down to my unit and say 'unprofessional.'

You wouldn't walk out... but we'd be nice enough to carry you. Actually, since we got that new paramedic in recently, we wouldn't need to... he could patch you up on the spot, and the nurse we got in the Marion detachment could be down in a jiffy to fix up whatever he couldn't. (DEFINITELY kidding... just wanted to let you know that intra-service rivalries are alive and well)

We have the best record of any US Army MP unit that served in OIF- 1853 combat escort missions- no casualties, no equipment losses. We are the ONLY Military Police unit that was in theater at the time that pulled that kind of record off, AFIK, and I did check as best I could.

You are confusing the term 'professional' with the term 'corncob stuck up your ass.'

The reason that are are so 'laid back' is that we are generally friends (or at least acquaintances) in the REAL WORLD- you know, the one that exists when the uniform comes off and you just turn into people. We know our strength and weaknesses BETTER than any full-time unit because we see them not only illustrated in terms of what kind of soldier an individual is, but what kind of MAN they are (or woman.)

Sure, we use first names when we aren't doing something formal... it's because 90% of us work together outside the unit, go to school together, drink together, trade girls with each other, and in general know each other as people and not just a certain number of chevrons on a guy's uniform.


If you think that makes us unprofessional, you need to look up professionalism in a dictionary and study the definition.

Professionalism means knowing your job and doing it correctly and successfully... it doesn't say that you have to do it with pomp, circumstance and meaningless bullsh*t. It merely says that you are a capable, well-trained, individual that is serious about their work and successful at it'd implementation.


If you think otherwise about our unit, as the ISG personnel that worked out of Camp Slayer, BIAP, Iraq their opinion of the 70-ish MP's for the 1166 MP CO that worked for them as escorts, doing the work of a 200 man company.

We ran some of the most dangerous roads in Iraq- I personally made 5 separate trips down 'IED Alley' (Route Irish, out the front gate of BIAP to the Green Zone) in one singe day (actually several days like that), each time with a 3-5 truck serial to guard. No one f*cked with us... but they were happy to jump on the less prepared looking regular Army units that were more stuffy and formal. Maybe they just though that we looked too 'unprofessional' in our older 1025'ss and lack of blouses and painted-on Kevlar covers. Either way, we were more successful than the Regular Army units I shared the roads with, and that is a fact.

In fact, the 82nd and us shared a lot of the same roads. We heard about those fools getting ate several times a day up because they didn't know how to treat civilians- you don't wave a gun at everyone and threaten them... lots of times kindness works better, and if it don't, you still have the gun- while we'd sail right through the same area and never get touched while still doing our job.


Sorry you had a bad time with the 'Old Guard'- but in case you haven't looked in an armory lately, we have a higher percentage of experienced NCO's, vets of all ranks, and college degrees than the Regular Army.

We are well-trained, know our sh*t, and have the campaign ribbons to prove it.

If you aren't too much of a geezer, give the Guard another look... you might be glad you did.

I just signed for hitch number two... for $10,500 after taxes.

[Mr_Tricorder]

Thanks for clearing up the track record of the Guard.  It seems like the National Guard is focusing more on recruiting quality soldiers rather than just focusing on raw numbers like the regular army.  Generally speaking, the National Guard recruits I've met are more likely to have completed high school, attended some sort of college or are planning to go to college, have already held a civilian job, and received a promotion upon enlistment.  During basic, several of our best soldiers were in the National Guard.

Most of my regular army counterparts had bad recruiters, too.  Most of them said that their recruiters either weren't very clear on what they would go through or just straight up lied to them.  Their recruiters also didn't do a very good job to make sure that they got everything they were entitled to.  I've met a few regular army recruits that are college graduates, but their recruiters didn't tell them that they could be promoted from an E-1 to an E-4 upon enlistment if they had a college degree.  There are also a few others that are having their security clearance taken away (all 25 series MOS soldiers are required to have a secret security clearance) because their recruiters lied for them to get them into the army.  My recruiter, on the other hand, has been the most truthful and most helpful person I've met in my military career so far.  He made sure I got everything I was entitled to from the beginning and had my paperwork straight from day one so everything has gone relatively smoothly for me ever since.

[J. Carney]

Same same for my recruiter, Mr. T.

MSG Dubose, 20th SF, Auburn Alabama gave me about the squarest deal that he could... very little BS- and I think what BS he DID deliver is mandatory via US Army Recruiting Regulations.

Got me an $8000 signing bonus, student loan repayment, and GI Bill when most of the regular Army kids I went to Lost in the Woods didn't get but one or the other. To top it off, we were paying a higher enlistment bonus than they were getting at the time.

When I talk to folks about the Guard, I let them know it straight.
They appreciate it.




Oh, yeah, Soldier... sign up for the G-RAP program. $2000 per recruit that signs. Ask your unit's retention NCO how to do it. If he can't tell you how, I will ask OUR retention NCO to e-mail me the link and get it to you. My e-mail is in my profile and it hasn't changed.

[Mr_Tricorder]

...
Oh, yeah, Soldier... sign up for the G-RAP program. $2000 per recruit that signs. Ask your unit's retention NCO how to do it. If he can't tell you how, I will ask OUR retention NCO to e-mail me the link and get it to you. My e-mail is in my profile and it hasn't changed.

I already did.  My recruiter made sure I signed up for it right after my first (and only) RSP weekend before I left for basic.

[Dracho]

JC, as a former Regular Army MP, I have to say all-in-all, Sten is generally correct, with regard to combat arms units.  You have to keep in mind that an MP is required to have nearly the ASVAB score as an officer, and the MP Corps is an entirely different experience than the infantry or armor.

I was at Drum when we reactived the 10th Mtn, and prior to that Drum was the northern training center for the National Guard.  You never saw such a sorry parade of undisciplined civilians wearing camo as came through that place, most especially when the 42nd Infantry from NYC, or the 50th Armor from NJ was in town.  Those guys were, for the most part, and in comparison to units I trained with in Europe, canon fodder.  Their equipment sucked, they had no discipline what-so-ever, and they displayed no desire to learn anything about the art of war.  That is not to say that war would not have forged them into an efficient unit, but the casualties would have been horrendous.

 The 242 Armor out of NC was an excellent unit, whereas the 50th out of NJ was not (it had some exceptions, but as a whole was poorly trained and poorly led).  The example you give of the 82nd is a poor one because those guys are taught that a paratrooper can beat 10 normal soldiers, but they fail to teach them another about whipping 10 men at once.  They only teach them to jump out of planes and walk for a long distance.

The problem with the National Guard (and I will concede it has gotten better) is the inconsistancy between units.

[Villa64]

  They only teach them to jump out of planes and walk for a long distance.

They dont walk.  They do the Airborne Shuffle hooah.

 

[J. Carney]

JC, as a former Regular Army MP, I have to say all-in-all, Sten is generally correct, with regard to combat arms units.  You have to keep in mind that an MP is required to have nearly the ASVAB score as an officer, and the MP Corps is an entirely different experience than the infantry or armor.

I can see that to an extent... but he's also basing things off the Guard of 15-20 years ago. Those were the guys that jumped in the Guard to stay out of Nam, and they were generally the kind of folks that you didn't want in the military anyway.

Nowdays, it's a different animal entirely.

I know a lot of signals (once the WORST guys in uniform) and armor Guardsmen, and only 5 of the Armor guys lack Combat Action Badges- and only then because they were mediced out before the start of the war.

The Guard is changing, it's becoming the Repository of Knowledge for the Army rather than the Repository of Refuse.

[Dracho]

JC, as a former Regular Army MP, I have to say all-in-all, Sten is generally correct, with regard to combat arms units.  You have to keep in mind that an MP is required to have nearly the ASVAB score as an officer, and the MP Corps is an entirely different experience than the infantry or armor.

I can see that to an extent... but he's also basing things off the Guard of 15-20 years ago. Those were the guys that jumped in the Guard to stay out of Nam, and they were generally the kind of folks that you didn't want in the military anyway.

Nowdays, it's a different animal entirely.

I know a lot of signals (once the WORST guys in uniform) and armor Guardsmen, and only 5 of the Armor guys lack Combat Action Badges- and only then because they were mediced out before the start of the war.

The Guard is changing, it's becoming the Repository of Knowledge for the Army rather than the Repository of Refuse.

LOL dude.. I hate to be the bearer of bad news (especially to my generation), but Nam was almost 40 years ago now.  The guard of 15-20 years ago was my generation, and I was born the year 'Nam started to heat up.  They mostly joined for the money and to play soldier on weekends.

The Vietnam vets are looking at Social Security now.  Weird isn't it?  Time sure does fly.

[Capt. Mike]

Hey...I was born in '55...I still have 14 years to Social InSecurity...you guys better keep working so I can afford IHOP!!


                                                     



Mike

[J. Carney]

JC, as a former Regular Army MP, I have to say all-in-all, Sten is generally correct, with regard to combat arms units.  You have to keep in mind that an MP is required to have nearly the ASVAB score as an officer, and the MP Corps is an entirely different experience than the infantry or armor.

I can see that to an extent... but he's also basing things off the Guard of 15-20 years ago. Those were the guys that jumped in the Guard to stay out of Nam, and they were generally the kind of folks that you didn't want in the military anyway.

Nowdays, it's a different animal entirely.

I know a lot of signals (once the WORST guys in uniform) and armor Guardsmen, and only 5 of the Armor guys lack Combat Action Badges- and only then because they were mediced out before the start of the war.

The Guard is changing, it's becoming the Repository of Knowledge for the Army rather than the Repository of Refuse.

LOL dude.. I hate to be the bearer of bad news (especially to my generation), but Nam was almost 40 years ago now.  The guard of 15-20 years ago was my generation, and I was born the year 'Nam started to heat up.  They mostly joined for the money and to play soldier on weekends.

The Vietnam vets are looking at Social Security now.  Weird isn't it?  Time sure does fly.

Yeah, but the Guard was still littered with Nam era antiques when you were in, now wasn't it. Hell, we took TWO with THIS TRIP us IN MY DETACHMENT, and 4 or 5 in the whole company. One had three purple hearts, all earned on different tours.

The NAm-era slackers weren't really leaving in droves till after Storm.

[Sten]

Okay so your going to whoop my ass. Yea I am convinced your a professional soldier and not some weekend warrior.

In 14 years I will say I did have repsect for the personnel in two NG units. The Alabama EOD Detachment I worked with one summer and the SF group out of Utah don't recall which group this was anymore. Other than that my opinion is still the same as what I held while on Active duty.

Now if my Neighbor had not retired from the North Carolina Guard as a senior NCO a couple years ago, and had I not talked to him and see him load his truck up for summer camp\Vacation I might believe your NG unit is the best on planet Earth. However I still do not believe your unit is any different from any other blase National Guard unit made up of good ole boys out to have fun one weekend a month and 2 weeks every summer.

You reinforced every belief I had thanks.

The ASVAB score for an MP is higher than the average grunt. Trust me it proably is. But I never cared about GT scores mine was 134.

When I went I was offered West Point Prep School, Flight School at Fort Rucker, The Defense Langauge Institute in Santa Barbra. I turned it all down because I knew what I wanted to do. That being falling from an Iron bird, closing with the enemy and destroying them in close combat.

At least I seem to recall that being the propaganda line fed to me then.

[RazalYllib]

Ah so many memories .....

Barton Field at O'dark thirty....ah...
Lovely strolls to class in mid july in the wonderful climate.
My first taste of Crown Royal at the Class Six!!!
Signal Towers...and a suprise walkthrough by the 1 star and the post sgm when we were constructing the "patio", which was still there last time I was there in 93. (buildiing was nearly right accross from signal tower btw)
My first taste of high voltage modulated at rf (1.5 amps @ 880 volts = ouch, first bug of the morning)
Many other firsts...intimate encounter with a much older women and my only intimate encounter with an african american (she was athletic, ran track and very buff!), horseback riding, root canal, helping drunk buddies find their rooms.
And lets not forget mammoth marathon Rolemaster sessions that often started on friday evening after chow and would often go til sundays regularly scheduled gi party....ah the memories.

As for the NG, was not impressed. Came back to my unit, was not permited to utilized the skills imparted to me to repair radio gear in the shop due to the fact that if we did, the civs who worked it 9-5 would be out of a job. I was stunned. I did work RnR office til college started, but after a year of above average ROTC work, I was also not impressed with what I perceived to be a inherantly corrupt and unjust system in the selection, promotion, and retention of the officer corps. Went IIR until my next annual records check when a recruiter talked me into taking another asvab.

I knew the recruiting  biz from the 9 month gig at State RnR and this stressed out, but quite pleasant SSG seemed like he needed a boost (yes they look at how many peeps take asvab even if they do not enlist and when it is EER time every little bit helps) anyhow I volunteered to take the test to boost his stats and was pleasantly surprised I nearly maxed out. Of course he naturally prodded me and mentioned that since I was IIR, Reserve Units were an option if I did not want to go active or back to NG. I mentioned doing something interesting if I was going to anything until my contract was up. He rattled off the list and I was not impressed. When he asked what kind of job would I be interested in going to school for, I mentioned SIGINT, or something along those lines. That is when I first heard the word PSYOP. He said there was a AR unit in St Louis that had slots open that my scores more than qualified for, but I would need to take a DLAB before anyone there would even talk to me..what a DLAB?
Defense Language Aptitude Battery...the hardest test you might never take.
I made the score and got to visit the Unit.
First of all this unit was direct support to Third Corps...specifically 1st Cav....they told me straight off this Unit has real world mission and not just dog and pony show. It was also made clear that these boyz were serious. I was introduced to some of the admin staff and then the units first sgt came in, he was a  police officer on lunch and just came to check on if the courier had showed yet. Anyhow, I was hooked and signed extension when I got back to town. Had many adventures, before school for the MOS even...lots of OJT which helped ensure I would graduate top of the class. Year or so later decided to see the REAL ARMY, went active (changed MOS's again to see things from different perspective to bring that back to the PSYOP Unit after the Active commitment) during that 4 year stint, wife's autoimmune disorder went warp 7 and Uncle Sam lost. I choose civvie....often I wonder if it was not the best choice, but if i did not ETS when I did, I probably would have missed the Last performance of the Grateful Dead and would have regretted for eternity.

[J. Carney]

Okay so your going to whoop my ass. Yea I am convinced your a professional soldier and not some weekend warrior.

It was a joke, old man... give it up.

You are just the superior RA type.

Take it to the NCO club and tell it to your old buddies.

I got the ribbons, letters of commendation, and mission results to back up my claims.

Its more than most RA soldiers I met got.

All they got was waxed, we all cam home doing the same job.

THAT is the proof you seek.