Topic: Hydraulic Transmission Saves 60-70% on Fuel?!

[Dracho]

New Hydraulic Hybrid Trucks Roll Off
 
 
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Jun 21, 1:33 PM (ET)

By DAVID HAMMER

WASHINGTON (AP) - Recognize that familiar United Parcel Service truck with the trademark brown paint job? Look twice. The government unveiled its model Wednesday, replete with a new hybrid hydraulic system.

The new system replaces a truck's transmission with hydraulics and that, combined with a low-emission diesel engine, yields a 60 to 70 percent saving on fuel use. It was built for the EPA by Cleveland-based Eaton Corp. (ETN)

"We work on a lot of different hydraulic equipment for aerospace and this fits in very well," said Ben Hoxie, Eaton's engineering manager for the project.

For the EPA, the project was about making the most immediate impact on air standards and fuel economy after President Bush called for the country to reduce its dependence on foreign oil. Delivery trucks pile up the hours and miles with city driving, so they were among the most likely to benefit from a drivetrain that transfers the energy lost in braking into a series of fluid and air pumps that in turn power acceleration.

The EPA estimates that UPS will take less than three years to recover the $7,000 cost of outfitting its trucks with the new hydraulic system by saving money on fuel and by reducing brake wear.

Atlanta-based UPS partnered with the EPA, Eaton, International Truck and Engine Corp. and the U.S. Army in February 2005 to develop a green fleet of low-emissions vehicles.

[The Postman]

Why can't the USPS do this? I myself wear out a set of brakes every 5-6k miles.

[Dracho]

Sounds like pretty new technology, which the Federal Government doesn't like to test, unless it's military.  Bet  if it works for UPS you guys will have them within 24 months.

[J. Carney]

Sounds like pretty new technology, which the Federal Government doesn't like to test, unless it's military.  Bet  if it works for UPS you guys will have them within 24 months.

OR we already have them in pre-production vehicles, and UPS was just the first CIVILIAN benificiary of the tech.

[Bonk]

a drivetrain that transfers the energy lost in braking into a series of fluid and air pumps that in turn power acceleration

Now that is cool.   Now they just need to drop that diesel engine altogether and go with an electric system. I still think those carbon fiber flywheel jobbies are the way to go.

[Nemesis]

a drivetrain that transfers the energy lost in braking into a series of fluid and air pumps that in turn power acceleration

Now that is cool.   Now they just need to drop that diesel engine altogether and go with an electric system. I still think those carbon fiber flywheel jobbies are the way to go.

Perhaps the carbon nanotube capacitor will replace the flywheel.  (2nd link).  If they can be made affordably they should have numerous advantages over current batteries.

Trivia:  In the Riverworld series (begun in 1965) of stories by Philip José Farmer a device with the characteristics of the nanotube battery was used and called a battacitor.

[E_Look]

I know that there is progress, but carbon nanotubes are still a bit away from being produced by a viable industrial process.  We have *some* early scientific bases down, but there is much more that has to be known, especially in the way of engineering, but engineers and executives won't really look at this stuff until they can get a workable, practical way of making this stuff (and make money at it).  Look at gallium arsenide.  What promise!  But alas (and I don't mean aluminium arsenide), look at it now... only a niche, specialty material that costs an arm and a leg.

a drivetrain that transfers the energy lost in braking into a series of fluid and air pumps that in turn power acceleration

Now that is cool.   Now they just need to drop that diesel engine altogether and go with an electric system. I still think those carbon fiber flywheel jobbies are the way to go.

Perhaps the carbon nanotube capacitor will replace the flywheel.  (2nd link).  If they can be made affordably they should have numerous advantages over current batteries.

Trivia:  In the Riverworld series (begun in 1965) of stories by Philip José Farmer a device with the characteristics of the nanotube battery was used and called a battacitor.

[Nemesis]

I know that there is progress, but carbon nanotubes are still a bit away from being produced by a viable industrial process.  We have *some* early scientific bases down, but there is much more that has to be known, especially in the way of engineering, but engineers and executives won't really look at this stuff until they can get a workable, practical way of making this stuff (and make money at it).  Look at gallium arsenide.  What promise!  But alas (and I don't mean aluminium arsenide), look at it now... only a niche, specialty material that costs an arm and a leg.

It is also a field of promise in so many ways that there is a great deal of research on methods because whoever first makes practical manufacturing of carbon nanotubes in a totally controlled way is going to make fortunes.  If it is your competitor that does so then you will be dead in the water.  Literally any day (which could still be decades away) could result in the breakthrough that changes everything. 

[J. Carney]

a drivetrain that transfers the energy lost in braking into a series of fluid and air pumps that in turn power acceleration

Now that is cool.   Now they just need to drop that diesel engine altogether and go with an electric system. I still think those carbon fiber flywheel jobbies are the way to go.

Diesel isn't likely to get drooped till we get cold fusion, Bonk.

It burns more completely than gasoline, generally gets higher MPG numbers than a comprably sized gas engine, and generates more torque and BHP than any other type of ICE it's size. (of course, you probably know allt hat)

Electric just isn't made to handle the knds of loads and ranges that diesel-powered vehicles currently fill.

[Brush Wolf]

a drivetrain that transfers the energy lost in braking into a series of fluid and air pumps that in turn power acceleration

Now that is cool.   Now they just need to drop that diesel engine altogether and go with an electric system. I still think those carbon fiber flywheel jobbies are the way to go.

Diesel isn't likely to get drooped till we get cold fusion, Bonk.

It burns more completely than gasoline, generally gets higher MPG numbers than a comprably sized gas engine, and generates more torque and BHP than any other type of ICE it's size. (of course, you probably know allt hat)

Electric just isn't made to handle the kinds of loads and ranges that diesel-powered vehicles currently fill.

Electric doesn't even handle the loads and ranges that gasoline powered vehicles currently fill. I will agree on diesel getting better fuel mileage and having more torque however I believe that gas engines still hold the horsepower advantage. I know that some diesels have BHP that approaches that of gasoline engines however they are only able to do that with very high turbocharger pressures that add complexity and cost.

[Dracho]

And diesel is MUCH, MUCH safer to handle than gasoline.  You have to heat diesel to nearly 1000 degrees Fahrenheit before it "explodes".

[Bonk]

Electric doesn't even handle the loads and ranges that gasoline powered vehicles currently fill. I will agree on diesel getting better fuel mileage and having more torque however I believe that gas engines still hold the horsepower advantage. I know that some diesels have BHP that approaches that of gasoline engines however they are only able to do that with very high turbocharger pressures that add complexity and cost.

Not true from what I have seen. I have seen electric vehicles in both print and television media that exceed 250HP and 500KM range.

The carbon fibre epoxy flywheel (not nanotubes) prototype I read of in Discovery Magazine back in the early nineties was around 250 hp and could go up to 500 Km without a charge. And when it did need a charge it only took about 2 minutes to spin the flywheels back up to top speed. The developer just could not get any major manufacturers on board for some reason (see below).

Recently I saw an electrician on TV that customised an old Corvette with a battery powered electic motor that was about 300 hp. He demonstrated it with a burnout and donuts in a parking lot. It was impressive, though I suspect its range was low.

The only real problem with electric vehicles is parts. They don't wear them out. New brushes every 50,000 Km or so, that's about it. The UAW, NAPA and auto manufacturers don't like that.   Who was the manufacturer that recently recalled thousands of perfectly good electric vehicles to have them destroyed, much to the pilot project participant's dismay...? (GM's EV1 I think? I think that was it, they wouldn't sell them, only lease them, then destroyed them all... )

Granted they may not be quite ready to pull 20 tons up a 5 Km 30° hill like a diesel Mac or Kenworth, but they'd be more than adequate for urban delivery trucks and personal vehicles.

I still think that flywheels are the way to go, for charging rate and also for their recovery of braking energy analagous to the technology originally described in this thread.

Hybrids are an improvement, but are just a concession to the parts industry in my view. Fuel cells are absurd.

Sigh, I can't think about it too much. Unnecessary stress that I cannot do anything about. However I will never own another car of any kind, they just aren't necessary, and give others way too much control over your freedom. (Vere are your paperz! )

[Brush Wolf]

Those EV1's were prototypes and it is standard procedure in the automotive industry to destroy prototypes after they have served their purpose.

Electric vehicles have cold weather issues that have not been solved. reduced battery power form the cold is one, having to use part of that reduced power for heat is another. A third and major show stopper is access to electric power to recharge an electric vehicle as not everyone has off street parking quite possibly putting the vehicle beyond reasonable extension cord range.

While electric vehicles would need extremely rare to the point of being nonexistent repair service to the engines they would still need all the other parts that are on current vehicles such as shocks, brakes, and tires to name a few.