Topic: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific  (Read 2819 times)

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Offline AcePylut

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Offline AcePylut

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2006, 10:32:57 pm »
Heya if you wanna delete this, feel free.  I don't have the POWER!!!
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Offline AcePylut

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2006, 10:38:16 pm »
Testing what a printscreen does, when I play the game, hit printscreen, open Paint, copy file into paint, save as a jpeg (which makes the map look kinda grainy), upload into photobucket, then img it here.  maybe I outta swipe Photoshop from work.



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Offline AcePylut

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2006, 10:44:39 pm »
PS No dracho, that it's a printscreen of our game.  Look at the date :)

That's a game I started against the AI.  You can see my nice invasion fleet of 4 CV's steaming down from Rabaul, heading to Port Moresby. It's got a nice Bombardment TF escorting (incl the Yamato in it :D), a decoy Surface Combat TF, another TF of gunboats and subchasers, and my all important invasion Transport fleet, carrying 3 combat Regiments of the IJA 38th division, the Base Force, the HQ, the AA and Coastal Defense units, and some supplies to boot.   Damn AI threw every aircraft they have into PM, and is trying to stop me, but the morale of teh US pilots suck, and they have yet to attack the fleet, thanks to my 100 Zero's flying Cap over it.  Soon, however, I'll be in range of PM's fighter escort, and there will be air battles. 

I'm thinking of sneaking my Bombardment TF into PM right before I get into range, to hopefully put enough damage on the airfield to prevent offensive aircraft missions (need 50+ damage at least), then follow up with Dive Bombers and Kates from teh TF, coupled with Betty's and Nells flying down from Rabaul.

I just hope the US carriers have their sights over at Guadacanal, and I can get the troops ashore before their carriers show up.

time will tell.
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762_XC

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2006, 12:40:58 am »
What game is this?

Offline AcePylut

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2006, 08:51:28 am »
Uncommon Valor – Campaign for the South Pacific

http://www.matrixgames.com/games/story.asp?gid=216

It’s a game released in 2002, by Matrix Games, of the Battle for the South Pacific.  The map boundary goes from Truk in the north (where all Jap ships, planes, troops, and supplies come in), to Brisbane in the South West (where all the Aussie / UK ships, troops, planes, etc) to Noumea in the South East (where all the US stuff comes in).

The time frame covered in the grand campaign is from May 01, 1942 to December 31, 1943.   So basically you start right before the historical battle for the Coral Sea.

Each turn is one day, and the game is an “operational level” game, meaning you decide which ships go into which Task Forces, and you tell those task forces where to go (along with various levels of reaction), you tell the airplane squadrons what type of mission to fly and at what altitude… and when you hit “end turn”, the computer carries out all tactical level combat.  So you might tell your carrier to head north, because the day earlier your PBY’s sighted some Jap carriers, but then if those carriers are sighted to the east, your carriers will change direction and head toward them to attack, depending on if you set your CV tf to “react to enemy”.

Each hex above is “30 miles”, and if you look in the lower right, you can see how much of the “overall” map is shown.  I messed up that map in the lower right playing around with it a couple months ago, so you see a lot of yellow dots on it.  Game doesn’t have that mess that I have.  Also, since I turned this into a jpeg, it took on a very grainy look.  You can, if you want, turn off the hexes, but I like them on so I know just exactly where to park my carriers (out of range of enemy aircraft, in range of my aircraft)

The big thing is that this game forces you to take supplies into account.  You can’t just park 1000 planes at Guadacanal, and have them fly every day.  You are foced to transport supplies from your supply locations (Truk, Brisbane, Noumea) via task force (or transport aircraft) to  your bases if you want to build anything, fly anything, use as a forward supply base… so choices for your subs are “attack combat ships” or the overall “wear down their transports”…. Because you only get so many transports. Ships require fuel, instead of supplies.  No fuel, no chance of going anywhere…. so you have to make sure your ports not only with supplies, but with fuel also.  And let me tell you, running out of fuel when you’re in range of enemy land based air sucks.  Ships use fuel anytime they are at sea, so for PT boats, you’re range is really limited, other ships have good range… but eventually, you’re going to have to return to a port for fuel.  Ships firing guns (or cv’s launching air missions) uses up ‘ammo’ on the ships, and when you run out of ammo, you have to return to a supplied port and restock.  (Supplies are pretty generic, you just have to make sure the port has “supplies”, you don’t have to transport specific ammo, bombs, etc.).

With base building, you aren’t going to plop into Guadacanal and have an instant-superduper airport.  Nope, when the Japs take Guadacanal at the start of the game, the base has nothing, so you have to transport engineer ground units and supplies to build the base up (takes time).  You can build up three things on a base: Airport, Port (if on a coast), Fortifications.  But some bases aren’t “capable” of having a “level 9” airport/port (level 0 = nothing, level 9 = as big as possible), so on pretty much all the bases, you can only build the stuff up to a certain level.  For instance, in real life, the Wau airport was a airstrip cut out of the side of a mountain.  Naturally, you ain’t gonna have La-Guardia airport sitting there, but you can build that tiny strip and have some fighters there.

The way any campaign game goes, however, is “6 months of the Japs running over the place”, followed by 3 months of “turning the tide”, followed by the US rolling up what the Japs had build. 

Dracho and I just fired up a PBEM game for the heck of it, and see how it goes.  We are fighting the “South from Rabaul” option, in which a lot of things are  fantasized, basically The Battle of Midway didn’t happen so the Japs get those carriers lost at the Battle of Midwar, Jap pilot training is increased so the replacement pilots for Japan don’t suck so bad, Russia and Japan have peace treaty so the Japs get some of those troops.  What that means is that I’ll (Japan) be able to do a lot “better” than the Japs did historically, but in the end, I’ll still get crushed by the US Land Based Air, what with there nasty P38’s, Hellcats, Corsairs.  It just makes for a much more entertaining game.  “Victory” comes down to “who has more victory points in the end”

The game is available for digital download from matrixgames for 20$.  The interface is kinda clunky (as expected for a micromanagement type game of carrier war), and it takes a bit to “make your stuff do what you want”, but after you get over that hump (for me at least), I’ve enjoyed it. 
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Offline Dracho

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2006, 09:11:19 am »
They also use the engine for its big brother, War in the Pacific, which covers the US West Coast to eastern India.

BTW, because I haven't played in a while, I also started a game against the AI to warm myself up for our PBEM.  On the 5th turn of the game I fought the battle of the Coral Sea against the AI.  I moved my Carrier task force from Nomea to just south of New Guinea, as I suspect the Japanese had a carrier TF somewhere in the area.  He did... he actually had 2 carrier task forces  :o

The Lexington sunk as it hobbled back to port, and the Yorktown suffered 74% damage and flooding with over 50 fires, but it made it back to port with its own squadrons and 2 of the Lexington's.  I sent her back to Pearl Harbor for repairs.

In exchange, the Shokaku was probably sunk, the Zuikaku definitely went down, and the escorting CVL exploded.  Considering the eventual carrier balance, I thought it a decent trade.

I'll get to our game turn this evening.  I spent yesterday doing floor tiles and was so pooped that I just ate and fell into bed.
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Offline AcePylut

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2006, 10:47:12 am »
Damn, you got lucky.  York and Lex don't have radar in May 1942, which usually means they get slaughtered when put up against the Shokaku, Zuikaku, and Shoho in the Battle for Coral Sea.  From what I read on the forum, most US players send them back to PH on the first turn, to get that radar upgrade and the 40mm Bofors, and basically "bunker down" in Aussie and Noumea/Lunganville.

I also fired up that AI game just to get the feel for it again, and to learn how not to give "wrong" orders to the TF's, that would make them do stupid stuff like screaming off into range of 100 B26's and stuff.  That game is what my printscreen is of. 

I managed to sink the Lex and York, along with numerous escort ships, but it cost me the Shokaku.  I had to scuttle her 150 miles from Shortland Islands, as she was at 99 Sys Damage, 74 Float Damage, and something like 60 Fire Damage.  I forgot the actual number, but I guess scuttling a ship doesn't count so bad against the Victory Point total.  Luckily, the aircraft on that ship were able to transfer to Shorty.  Much better than losing them.  Oh well, Kaga and Akagi showed up, along with a couple of CVL's, and Soryu and Hiryu and Ryujo (sp) are on the way.  Things aren't looking good for the US.  Now I just wonder where the Enterprise, Hornet, Saratoge, Wasp are.  They could spell doom for my Kido Butai.

Couple things I did learn over the last few days or so... you only get 7 B-17's a month as reinforcements.  I've found out that having them bomb from 20k feet for "low damage" is better than bombing from 1000 feet for very high damage, because I can sustaion that "low damage" over a longer time, so it adds up to more damage, more supply drain, etc.
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762_XC

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2006, 10:58:25 am »
Very sweet! I'd be interested in hearing how the PBEM game turns out.

For $20 I may have to check it out.

Offline AcePylut

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2006, 11:38:13 am »
That's kinda what this post was originally about.  I'm going to begin an After Action Report (AAR), and needed to know how to get pictures sized properly for display.

The AAR is going to be delayed about a week or two from where we're at in the actual game.  I don't want Dracho reading what I"m a gonna be doing :)  until it's already been done.

One thing, however, is that you don't actually get to "direct" exactly how the battle happens, from a tactical point of view.  Basically, you can tell your carriers to "go there where the enemy is, and all aircraft will attack ships (or airfield, or port)"  The game decides how many planes are lost, how many bombs hit, how your aa fares, etc.. taht is, if your squadrons pass morale/exp checks to even attack that target. 

There's nothing as frustrating as having 100 bombers attack a bunch of PT boats when a nice juicy fleet of BB's, CA's, and DD's is closeby.  But then it makes me go "yup, that's cuz there were tons of CAP flying over that TF".

Then again, there's nothing sweeter than having a sub sit in a chokepoint/straight for 3 weeks until a CV finally passes through, and ends up getting three torps in it's flank from the sub.  It teaches you to avoid the chokepoints :)
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Offline Dracho

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2006, 10:27:00 pm »
I decided to prempt the computer AI and land troops on Guadacanal before he did.  He sent down a task force to interfere with my resupply mission.  When you look at the ships present, the Australia gave a good accounting of herself.

The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline AcePylut

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2006, 02:11:10 pm »
2CA's covering a bunch of troop and supply transports, attacked by 3 CA's and a CL?

Heck yeah, I'd say they did a pretty darn good job.  Was that a night or daytime battle? 

Lucky they didn't send any of those Long Lance capable DD's.  Those things are nasty!

I don't expect you to do what the AI does... send "weak" tf's to attack.  That game I printscreened above, the allies sent a continual stream of Surface Combat ships to bombard Lunga... each time they did so, my LBA out of Rabaul would attack them as they pulled back from Lunga.  After about 3 bombardment attacks, the AI was reduced to sending up 3 and 4 ship TF's of DD's to bombard, for about 10 damage, in return for getting butchered by my LBA, all in vain.  Ai is so predictable, they'd send their bombardment tf's up the passage between Iraq and Rennel Isle.  So I dumped about 7 subs in that path, and they extracted great damage on those tf's. 

That's why I went looking for a human.  It's the element of unpredictability and alternate tactics I seek.

 Now, to find and destroy the Lex and york... muh huh hahahahaha.  Where be they... over by PM?  South of Guaddy?  In port in Nomeua?  Sent back to PH?  AI will always send them to the middle of the Coral Sea. 

My search planes will let me know soon enough :D
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Offline Dracho

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Re: test UV Map of AP v Dracho on the WW2 battle for South Pacific
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2006, 12:09:21 pm »
Well, it's the first week of July, 1942 in my game against the AI, and I have fought another battle that is very similar to historical events.

After the mauling of my replinishment TF, I decided to put a carrier TF (Enterprise and Hornet arived from Pearl) southwest of Guadacanal, and sucker-punch that BB group when it came back to bombard the island.  Well, the AI had apparentlty decided to sent not 1, but 2 carrier TF as well.

I caught the Japanese with the britches about their ankles.  The land-based air group from Guadacanal took the edge off their CAP, then the Carrier planes went in.  I all but wrecked the Shoho and the Hiryu, and outright sunk the CVL Ryujo after 1000 lb bomb hits detonated both the fuel storage and ammunition storage compartments.

Of course, they'd already launched and found my TF.  Enterprise took 8 bomb hits and withdrew with 2 destroyers and a wrecked flight deck.  Hornet sank within minutes.  On a positive note, Shoho sank during the night.

However, their air groups were still in the air, so they diverted to Guadacanal.  The next morning scouts found the task forces again attempting to withdraw north of the slot.   The naval air groups sortied and extracted their revenge.  The Kaga suffered 6 1000lb bomb hits and a torpedo hit that caused an explosion below the waterline.

Later in the day the withdrawing Hiryu was spotted by the USS Grenadier and torpedod twice, sending her down will all hands.  The Kaga was last seen on fire, withdrawing in the direction of Truk.
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz