Topic: Non Destructable bases?

[Hexx]

Hello my eager minions

Just ooc-
a) does having bases be non destructable mess anything up?

b) does anyone care if bases are non destructable?

Kinda looking at a plan where in order to flip a hex it has to be within X hexes of a base/planet (there's lots on one map) and figured
it might be easier to make the bases hang around than have to worry about whether the yards on each side were producing bases that were comparable.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

a) does having bases be non destructable mess anything up?

Nothing at all.  That was the original default behaviour.

Of course, Chuut might have a stroke......   

-S'Cipio

[Hexx]

a) does having bases be non destructable mess anything up?

Nothing at all.  That was the original default behaviour.

Of course, Chuut might have a stroke......   

-S'Cipio

Nah
He'll to be to caught up with who he has to teach to use dronez

[762_XC]

I always liked the idea of having starbases indestructible.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Having bases as indestructable on the map is fine by me, just take them completely out of the shiplist and get rid of the base assault and base defense missions.  That way they could serve as markers and resupply points but not "magically" reappear after you blow them up.

[Hexx]

Well as I said- I'd like to take them out of the shiplist if I can, but I'm not sure if I want
to remove the assault missions.
I'll have to see if it's possible to reduce the number of assault missions generated on a base hex so that there's
a fair chance of not having one appear.

Just wondering if with a base needed to flip hexes system + DV victory points if I've set it to far in favour of the Kzin
I think I'll be handicapping them rather severely, but I'll have to wait until the server starts to find out.

[762_XC]

That would make it insanely easy to flip a supply point.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Thing is, with Base Assaults, is that unless theres a Human on each side, its just too easy really.  The AI goes out to meet the opponents well outside the Starbase's weapons range.  If someone could change the AI tendancies in that mission, and get them to stay near the Starbase, I think it would be MUCH more difficult to destroy bases in the first place.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

That would make it insanely easy to flip a supply point.

And just as easy to retake it.

Starbases can't be easily rebuilt so once one is destroyed it should remain off the map, however if these bases are actually just supply depots and not actual bases then a supply depot could be destoyed and quickly reestablished.  Thus a base hex need not contain an actual base in this role.

One thing you could do is have certain more difficult mission appear in the base hexes along with the normal mix, say a mission where you drew alot of ai opposition.  This would reflect a supply point being more heavy defendd/patrolled.  The base hex would thus be tougher to take but you still wouldn't need a base appearing, you would need a new mission however.

[762_XC]

It also homogenizes the map, removes a pontentially fun mission, and removes an element of strategy.

Basically it makes the game more boring, unless you actully LIKE hex flipping.

[GDA-Agave]

I certainly wouldn't mind indestructible bases.   Past servers have used bases depending on how the concept of the server was.  It you would like your bases indestructibe, Hexx, do it.    The stragetists will change their games plans accordingly.    We adapt and overcome.   

As for the missions that you draft on those base hexes, I personally think they should contain base assault and defend missions.   Scipio and I had a discussion some time back about limiting the chance a player had of pulling a base assault mission.   Say 33% of the time you would pull an assault mission and other times you would pull others.   Our thought here was that is each hex actually represented several million parsecs (or whatever) then you could realisticly run missions in that hex that would not involve the base.   I don't know if he ever figured out how to do that.    Maybe he'll post here and tell you.  (hint,hint)

Also, bases hexes have been rallying points for defensive strategies in lots of past servers.   I think it would be a mistake to populate those hexes with just normal open space missions.   Either base assault/defends missions or some other tough mission should be pulled in those hexes.   One suggestion would be to bring back some of those tough fleet missions (Karnak's or EvilDave's I don't remember which).    Either way, if the missions in those hexes are tougher you don't need to increase the max DV of those hexes over the open hexes around it.    Happy medium.

Just my thoughts.

Agave

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

I think that bases should remain destructable.. after al you can destroy bases in ST, so why shouldnt you be able to in a game?? I do think though, that bases should be much more expensive then they currently are..
Bases are good to destroy every now and then.. it just shouldnt be as easy to replace it

[Hexx]

Hmm I'll have to flip a coin..

The problems with destructable bases and placing new bases in the yards. If both sides end up having the yards
produce a steady mix of bases there's no problem. If one side ges basestations and the other gets Starbases there's an issue.

The problem with non destructable bases and base assaults is that it is alot of work to simply flip a hex

The problem with non destructable bases and no base assaults is that it is to easy to flip alot of hexes.

The problem with me is that I can't make up my mind which I like best for this server.

[762_XC]

Keep in mind Mirak can kill a base a lot more easily than Lyrans. Ditto with planets.

Just one of the challenges you will have with a Z vs L server.

[NuclearWessels]

I certainly wouldn't mind indestructible bases.   Past servers have used bases depending on how the concept of the server was.  It you would like your bases indestructibe, Hexx, do it.    The stragetists will change their games plans accordingly.    We adapt and overcome.   

As for the missions that you draft on those base hexes, I personally think they should contain base assault and defend missions.   Scipio and I had a discussion some time back about limiting the chance a player had of pulling a base assault mission.   Say 33% of the time you would pull an assault mission and other times you would pull others.   Our thought here was that is each hex actually represented several million parsecs (or whatever) then you could realisticly run missions in that hex that would not involve the base.   I don't know if he ever figured out how to do that.    Maybe he'll post here and tell you.  (hint,hint)

Also, bases hexes have been rallying points for defensive strategies in lots of past servers.   I think it would be a mistake to populate those hexes with just normal open space missions.   Either base assault/defends missions or some other tough mission should be pulled in those hexes.   One suggestion would be to bring back some of those tough fleet missions (Karnak's or EvilDave's I don't remember which).    Either way, if the missions in those hexes are tougher you don't need to increase the max DV of those hexes over the open hexes around it.    Happy medium.

Just my thoughts.

Agave

If there are ever any tough missions you'd like made "base hex only" that is easily accomplished.

For that matter, setting the base defense mission up so that the base itself is present only X% of the time is also relatively easily done.

dave
 

[Dizzy]

I prefer the same old starbase assault we've had now for a while... The server admin has all the flexibility he needs to make it as hard or easy as he wants using the shiplist.

IIRC, the sg5 starbase assault had the attacker with an AI ally attack 2 or 3 defending ships then the base itself. Well, I reworked the shiplist so that once the 3x defender ships were destroyed or captured, the base launched a fighter pod containing 24 fighters and 3 more ships undocked from the station whenever the attacker closes within 45k. In addition, everyone remembers the sg5 bases were damned hard to crack already. Tons of shields, labs to regenerate, excess power to reinforce and a tone of heavy standoff weapons to keep the enemy at bay. The only thing they lakced was adequate PD against massive fighter squadrons... But with the fighter pod the base drops, that might confuse the fighters a bit... 

But bottom line is that using the shiplist is a surefire way to make these base assaults as easy or hard as the admin likes. Aside from requesting each base assault spawn 3 defending ships (sometimes the base spawns only 2 defenders and I dislike this), I have no further requests.

[Dizzy]

If there are ever any tough missions you'd like made "base hex only" that is easily accomplished.

For that matter, setting the base defense mission up so that the base itself is present only X% of the time is also relatively easily done.

dave
 

Actually, yeah dave... I'd like to see a 'Perimeter Defense' mission show up only in a base hex 25% of the time or something where the attacker would engage 3 groups of 3 smaller ships with 3 waves of reinforcements coming at 6 minute intervals. Each wave would consist of 6-9 smaller ships preferably Destroyer and frigate and have them surrounding the attacker spawn point as if the attacker walked into a trap. I'd like to see minefields blocking the escape route and have some monitors and defsats spawned at random places on the map and then go fropm there testing to see how it all works.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Basically it makes the game more boring, unless you actully LIKE hex flipping.

Well I think having to run base assault after base assault is abut as boring as SFC can get.

To each their own.

[Dizzy]

ya, bases need to always be destructible. Or they need not generate a mission of you simply want a supply point that wont pop.

[NuclearWessels]

If there are ever any tough missions you'd like made "base hex only" that is easily accomplished.

For that matter, setting the base defense mission up so that the base itself is present only X% of the time is also relatively easily done.

dave
 

Actually, yeah dave... I'd like to see a 'Perimeter Defense' mission show up only in a base hex 25% of the time or something where the attacker would engage 3 groups of 3 smaller ships with 3 waves of reinforcements coming at 6 minute intervals. Each wave would consist of 6-9 smaller ships preferably Destroyer and frigate and have them surrounding the attacker spawn point as if the attacker walked into a trap. I'd like to see minefields blocking the escape route and have some monitors and defsats spawned at random places on the map and then go fropm there testing to see how it all works.

Wow, shouldn't have opened my mouth 

Interesting Diz, I'll start playing with it a bit

dave

[Dizzy]

Ya, Dave, thx for the follow up. Dont mind my details, it's the general thought that counts. Come up with something on your own, but the idea is a time consuming mission designed more to tie up attackers (read plural, we want to totally screw the solo player here) and end up with a challenging mission that can be won, but at a cost in time and supplies similar to that of how a starbase assault would trip up the attackers.

I'm going for having the mission generated by the server only when an attacker enters a starbase hex. The technical issue I see here is the server would continue generating this mission even after the starbase is destroyed until the server is rebooted and realizes its no longer there. But as an attack mission, and only showing 25% of the time, I dont see a serious  issue.

Also, we want to have the mission be usable more than just for a temp starbase assault. It's just not worth having if you dont see it show more. So perhaps have it also show up on core and home world planets? Balance issues would need to be tested.

Thoughts?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

What I think would also be cool is a mission that you could take in your home space that would be a 3 on 1.  Something to help a lone defender out.  If one side has a numbers advantage it would be kinda cool to give a lone defender an advantage in holding their own territory, and to have a shot at resisting a gangbang.

[Dizzy]

chuut, we already have 1 on 1 and 2 on 2 patrols. That's easy enough to defend your own space. Are you proposing that friendly space should get a 3 on 1? That'd make it too easy to defend friendly space imo. But it goes both ways. If a side is outnumbered, sure they could beef up their space doing those. But so can the enemy once they take one of ur hexes away.

But I like a 3 on 1 option. Maybe your ship and 2 frigs vs a DN?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

It isn't common that a side with the numbers advantage focuses on defending now is it?  Additionally if you flying against ai a 3 v 1 isn't usually that much faster than your standard 1 v 1, so I don't think it helps a side with numbers overly much.  The players  that would benefit most from this are the ones with less cruch power, since hex flippers would be able to deal with ai quickly anyhow.  It might thus be considered a way to help resist hex flipping of the space of races that aren't themselves natural hex flippers.

Also remember that a wongman would take the place of an ai if a wing was to be drafted.

What it make more difficult are gangbanging an out numbered foe defending his own space and deepstriking.  But you know how I feel about deepstriking, the greater the risk the greater the adrenaline flow  .

[el-Karnak]

I certainly wouldn't mind indestructible bases.   Past servers have used bases depending on how the concept of the server was.  It you would like your bases indestructibe, Hexx, do it.    The stragetists will change their games plans accordingly.    We adapt and overcome.   

As for the missions that you draft on those base hexes, I personally think they should contain base assault and defend missions.   Scipio and I had a discussion some time back about limiting the chance a player had of pulling a base assault mission.   Say 33% of the time you would pull an assault mission and other times you would pull others.   Our thought here was that is each hex actually represented several million parsecs (or whatever) then you could realisticly run missions in that hex that would not involve the base.   I don't know if he ever figured out how to do that.    Maybe he'll post here and tell you.  (hint,hint)

Also, bases hexes have been rallying points for defensive strategies in lots of past servers.   I think it would be a mistake to populate those hexes with just normal open space missions.   Either base assault/defends missions or some other tough mission should be pulled in those hexes.   One suggestion would be to bring back some of those tough fleet missions (Karnak's or EvilDave's I don't remember which).    Either way, if the missions in those hexes are tougher you don't need to increase the max DV of those hexes over the open hexes around it.    Happy medium.

Just my thoughts.

Agave

EEK Base/Planet/Shipyard assault/defence, and the Fleet/Squadron Actions mission appear to be to difficult for the single-player. Only do-able if you play co-op or you figure out how to play them in a tactical manner. You kinda have to plan a strategy to win them as a single-player.

I have always been a proponent for destructible bases with difficult missions and starbases that have a approx. 800K plus PP cost in the shipyard.

[Farfarer]

Isn't a non-destructible Base called a Planet?

How about Destructible Bases AND make them much CHEAPER, but Tougher?

That way you only get the boring (to some) SB Assault Mission Once, but it is a Doozy.

If someone decides to litter with bases ( within the server Base Placement Rule) they can be cleaned up.

[Dizzy]

Isn't a non-destructible Base called a Planet?

How about Destructible Bases AND make them much CHEAPER, but Tougher?

That way you only get the boring (to some) SB Assault Mission Once, but it is a Doozy.

If someone decides to litter with bases ( within the server Base Placement Rule) they can be cleaned up.

Bases were and are cheaper on SG servers. But a non destructible base is just that. A base that cant be destroyed. But you dont get a base mission when those bases are setup as non destructible. Planets give you planet assaults every time you move into one. I hope you get the difference. I dont think i explained it well.