Topic: Trek-Online.com giving us guys here good reviews  (Read 5622 times)

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Offline KBF-Crim

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Re: Trek-Online.com giving us guys here good reviews
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2006, 12:30:30 pm »
It is not misinformation, it is in their TOS, it is in the STGU TOS, it would not be there if some where sown the road that if they wanted to do something they could and be covered.

If it is not meant to be in there, it wouldnt be in there in black and white to begin with, KBF dont believe everything your told from a company that wants you to pay to download downloads you need for a game, that is if you dont want to wait in line for an hour.

Point blank they are in it for the money, and modelers are not, they do it for the fun and enjoyment, if IGN or Gamespy think they can turn it into money, you will be seeing the quoted text above and a "we do post our TOS on our site you should of read them" reply to your anger.

Oh...Ok...so that's your posistion...Chuck is a liar...he want's to rip everyone off...

Utter BS...

The very same TOS YOU posted spells it out clearly...but appearantly you didnt want to read it...you only took someones word for it...

I reference this statement in the TOS that YOU provided...

Quote
"When you submit a game FAQ, text guide,

walkthrough or image, it is considered your original and copyrighted work and you are licensing the content to IGN

Entertainment for publication. We may modify the format and display of the work, but not the content"

I read the TOS too....I can only assume that you are mis-reading it or dont clearly understand it......it's pretty damn simple as far as agreements go...

They (like most websites) have every right to control content posted to said website, move it, alter it's format, delete it, or post it on their front page.....that DOES NOT mean that they can STEAL works posted on said websites and use them to generate revenue...

You'd have a such a clear case for legal redress that they would most likely settle out of court...

And for the record...NO ONE....read that again....NO ONE..... can hold copywrite to ANY ship, image,, render, or story, that is in ANY WAY a derivative work of Paramount (Star Trek)...

Hello?....you get that?

That sweet Connie or D7?....if it's publiclly posted for DL....and Paramount wants to use it in a game...guess what...they CAN....because they ALLREADY OWN the intellectually property that work is based on..

That's why they are called "derivative works"....

Mods, models, renders, script, fiction...hell even a crayon drawing....they ALLREADY OWN IT....read the EULA....

Have they ever done such a thing?...no....not to my knowledge....but that doesnt mean they dont have the legal right to do so...

Paramount has an "unwritten" policy...they will not hammer you so long as: such works are FREE to the general public, such works REQUIRE the onership of a licensed game for use, such works respect the intellectual property owners ....

What that also means....is...IGN or GSA cannot legally take and use property based on Paramounts ownership rights (trek universe ships)...unless it falls under "fair use" in the first place...

You're worried about terms of service agreements?...did you read your End User License Agreement?

The EULA is quite clear on who owns what....read it..then complain about website terms of service...

Just because Paramount "looks the other way" concerning trek fiction, images, meshes, and scripts...doesnt mean they still dont hold OWNERSHIP of anything produced based on THEIR intellectual property..

You have no proof that IGN, STGU, or GSA has EVER taken posted items and used them for any purpose other than inform.

If you do....post it...I'd like to see it...at least something other than "the sky is falling"....

If not.. drop it....it's only sowing seeds of discontent for the express purpose of furthering other fansite/ on fansite attacks that we will NOT participate in....

Is that clear enough?







Offline CyberTrekFan

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Re: Trek-Online.com giving us guys here good reviews
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2006, 12:45:30 pm »
I see that you want to believe and read well into what some may discribe as between the lines, are you one of those people who think something is more than what it is? One of those conspiracy everywhere people?

Well I see your a moderator here, so you can basicly shove what you want us to believe down our throat and we have to say ok and move on or you will warn us or suspend us or whatever. So you get the last say, and I will pretend your right when I am here.

Offline Mackie

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Re: Trek-Online.com giving us guys here good reviews
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2006, 12:54:10 pm »
Right, right. I am a bit confused here, whats all the commotion?
Could someone possibly put this all in a nutshell for me? :P
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Offline Bonk

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Re: Trek-Online.com giving us guys here good reviews
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2006, 12:57:41 pm »
Quote
--------------
15 Legal Stuff
--------------

Copyright 2001 by Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All Rights Reserved. Portions copyright 2000 Amarillo Design Bureau.  Some elements based upon the board games created by Amarillo Design Bureau.

 Star Trek Starfleet Command(R) :Orion Pirates(TM) Copyright 2001 Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All Rights Reserved.  Registered and Copyright 2000 Paramount Pictures.  All Rights Reserved.  Star Trek is a registered trademark of Paramount Pictures and Starfleet Command and related marks are trademarks of Paramount Pictures.  All Rights Reserved.  Interplay, the Interplay logo, "By Gamers, For Gamers", 14 East and the 14 East logo are trademarks of Interplay Entertainment Corp.  Taldren and the Taldren logo are trademarks of Taldren, Inc.  Exclusively licensed and distributed by Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All other trademarks and copyrights are the property of their respective owners.

SOFTWARE USE LIMITATIONS AND LIMITED LICENSE

General Product License.  This copy of  Star Trek Starfleet Command(R) :Orion Pirates(TM) (the "Software") is intended solely for your personal non-commercial home entertainment use.  You may not decompile, reverse engineer, or disassemble the Software, except as permitted by law.  Interplay Entertainment Corp. and its licensors retain all right, title and interest in the Software including all intellectual property rights embodied therein and derivatives thereof.  The Software, including, without limitation, all code, data structures, characters, images, sounds, text, screens, game play, derivative works and all other  elements of the Software may not be copied, resold, rented, leased, distributed (electronically or otherwise), used on a pay-per-play, coin-op or other for-charge basis, or for any commercial purpose.  Any permissions granted herein are provided on a temporary basis and can be withdrawn by Interplay Entertainment Corp. at any time.  All rights not expressly granted are reserved.

Modem and Network Play.  If the Software contains modem or network play, you may play the Software via modem transmission with another person or persons directly without transmission through a third party service or indirectly through a third party service only if such service is an authorized licensee of Interplay.  For the purpose of this license, a "third party service" refers to any third party service which provides a connection between two or more users of the Software, manages, organizes, or facilitates game play, translates protocols, or otherwise provides a service which commercially exploits the Software, but does not include a third party service which merely provides a telephonic connection (and nothing more) for modem or network play.  Authorized licensee services are listed on the Interplay Entertainment Corp. World Wide Web Site located at http://www.interplay.com.  This limited right to transmit the Software expressly excludes any transmission of the Software of any data streams thereof on a commercial basis, including, without limitation, transmitting the Software by way of a commercial service (excepting those specific commercial services licensed by Interplay) which translates the protocols or manages or organizes game play sessions.

Acceptance of License Terms.  By acquiring and retaining this Software, you assent to the terms and restrictions of this limited license.  If you do not accept the terms of this limited license, you must return the Software together with all packaging, manuals and other material contained therein to the store where you acquired the Software for a full refund.


EDIT: emphasis added. According to this, we are technically not even allowed to post Trek based models anywhere for free download. Thankfully, Paramount has been kind enough to overlook that and allow us to have our fun. (see my sig)

This is why I tire of the endless flames about rights and permissions to SFC models. If you make or modify a Trek model it does not, and will not ever belong to you; Paramount has complete rights over it and may use it as they see fit or decide to stop allowing SFC/Trek mods of any kind at any time.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2006, 01:26:32 pm by Bonk »

Offline KBF-Crim

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Re: Trek-Online.com giving us guys here good reviews
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2006, 01:29:28 pm »
I see that you want to believe and read well into what some may discribe as between the lines,

No..I'm am basing this on clearly worded posts from Paramount, ADB, Quicksilver,Activision,Interplay and just about anyone else involved in anyway with license for SFC.

Quote
are you one of those people who think something is more than what it is? One of those conspiracy everywhere people?

Be very careful....someone could misconstrue this as a personal attack...

Quote
Well I see your a moderator here, so you can basicly shove what you want us to believe down our throat and we have to say ok and move on or you will warn us or suspend us or whatever.

Poppycock...I am subject to the same rules of decorm and forum use that you are...for you to imply that I would use my position here to further petty arguements on other fans sites is utter nonesence and totally unfounded.

I am trying to correct the record based on YEARS of observations, conversations,and the EULA itself...

the only thing I'm shoving is the clear text of the game EULA, and the TOS that you posted...

Quote
So you get the last say, and I will pretend your right when I am here.

No need to pretend anything...I clearly said that if you have proof of the wild accusations against other fansites stealling peoples works...then POST IT...

This isnt a petty arguement....it concerns very legal rights of ownership...who has them...and who does not...

What you are asserting is a VERY serious charge...that could effect a companies bottom line....and that does have real world ramifications...

I'm sure everyone here has a vested interest in their works....but we've had this very copywrite discussion right here dozens of times....allways with the same result....in the end..what is binding is the EULA....

I suggest you read it.

You have every right to disagree with me....you dont have the right to ignore what everyone around here allready knows to be true...

Your rights to hold copywrite for items produced as derivative works based on Paramounts intellectual property is nil.....as is IGN's,GSA, or STGU, STG,DV.net, outlance....ANYONE...

That DOES NOT mean that anyone has the right to "steal" your work...once it is public domain...it cannot be stolen...But clearly..using people works (models, fiction, renders) without consent is in EXTREME bad taste and not tolerated on anyweb site I know including DV.net...

We've had no problems that we couldnt resolve within the community and No one that I know of has had any works "stolen" by IGN, or GSA ...

Once again...if you have proof otherwise....please post it...I'm sure we'd all like to see it...

Thanks.

Offline Terradyhne

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Re: Trek-Online.com giving us guys here good reviews
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2006, 02:34:33 pm »
http://www.trek-online.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1032

I guess the stgu, yes the same site that verbally flamed attaked my 11 year old son for 3 days, has now started their own modder and modeler guild and I guess they want you all to leave here and go there. I hope you guys dont, I have enjoyed learning from you all and seeing what you have to offer. I would not feel comfortable going to a site that lets kids be treated like they have.

I know you all have been here for a long time, I have been here from the move myself, mostly just a quiet visiter spying for my buddy Wildcard so he can get models and techniques for his near distant future mod, I am no modder or modeler bu I do love to view them and see whay you all come up woth next.

I am proud you all allow me to comment on your work and interact with you daily here.

But I was asked to let you all know as well about the original modders roundtable located here http://www.cugs.org/modding/index.php this is the original thing that was started and then stole by stgu, I think Frey is involved to some point but dont know how much, I know he is the real reason you all have this place to use and it is awesome.

I just wanted to give you all an outsider point of view, and what I think is happening. I know you all cant wait to get your hands on Legacy, and I am excited as well. I cant wait to see you all make some Cadaassian, Dominion, Pirate, and Rakellian ships for it.

I hope I have not overstepped my bounds here.


and i idiot have joined this modders guild but after some posts of me i have seen that the people there are only answering to that Legacy and BC sh**  (games which i defenetly don't like)



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Offline KBF-Crim

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Re: Trek-Online.com giving us guys here good reviews
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2006, 02:44:13 pm »
http://www.trek-online.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1032

I guess the stgu, yes the same site that verbally flamed attaked my 11 year old son for 3 days, has now started their own modder and modeler guild and I guess they want you all to leave here and go there. I hope you guys dont, I have enjoyed learning from you all and seeing what you have to offer. I would not feel comfortable going to a site that lets kids be treated like they have.

I know you all have been here for a long time, I have been here from the move myself, mostly just a quiet visiter spying for my buddy Wildcard so he can get models and techniques for his near distant future mod, I am no modder or modeler bu I do love to view them and see whay you all come up woth next.

I am proud you all allow me to comment on your work and interact with you daily here.

But I was asked to let you all know as well about the original modders roundtable located here http://www.cugs.org/modding/index.php this is the original thing that was started and then stole by stgu, I think Frey is involved to some point but dont know how much, I know he is the real reason you all have this place to use and it is awesome.

I just wanted to give you all an outsider point of view, and what I think is happening. I know you all cant wait to get your hands on Legacy, and I am excited as well. I cant wait to see you all make some Cadaassian, Dominion, Pirate, and Rakellian ships for it.

I hope I have not overstepped my bounds here.


and i idiot have joined this modders guild but after some posts of me i have seen that the people there are only answering to that Legacy and BC sh**  (games which i defenetly don't like)



Dont forget Terra...that Many people are more concerned how the models or depicted in those games rather than the game play...

Legacy looks to be an eye stunner..it may very well be that the game play follows..

BC...while many dont like the game play....clearly supports more poly's than SFC...basiclly...the same ships look much better in BC...

It's just a matter of personal preference for many... ;)

Offline S31-Riptide

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Re: Trek-Online.com giving us guys here good reviews
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2006, 03:46:15 pm »
Amen Brother Bonk for your reminder post way up there... 

People tend to forget the current and possible restraints that we all work under.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Trek-Online.com giving us guys here good reviews
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2006, 05:11:26 pm »
Quote
--------------
15 Legal Stuff
--------------

Copyright 2001 by Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All Rights Reserved. Portions copyright 2000 Amarillo Design Bureau.  Some elements based upon the board games created by Amarillo Design Bureau.

 Star Trek Starfleet Command(R) :Orion Pirates(TM) Copyright 2001 Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All Rights Reserved.  Registered and Copyright 2000 Paramount Pictures.  All Rights Reserved.  Star Trek is a registered trademark of Paramount Pictures and Starfleet Command and related marks are trademarks of Paramount Pictures.  All Rights Reserved.  Interplay, the Interplay logo, "By Gamers, For Gamers", 14 East and the 14 East logo are trademarks of Interplay Entertainment Corp.  Taldren and the Taldren logo are trademarks of Taldren, Inc.  Exclusively licensed and distributed by Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All other trademarks and copyrights are the property of their respective owners.

SOFTWARE USE LIMITATIONS AND LIMITED LICENSE

General Product License.  This copy of  Star Trek Starfleet Command(R) :Orion Pirates(TM) (the "Software") is intended solely for your personal non-commercial home entertainment use.  You may not decompile, reverse engineer, or disassemble the Software, except as permitted by law.  Interplay Entertainment Corp. and its licensors retain all right, title and interest in the Software including all intellectual property rights embodied therein and derivatives thereof.  The Software, including, without limitation, all code, data structures, characters, images, sounds, text, screens, game play, derivative works and all other  elements of the Software may not be copied, resold, rented, leased, distributed (electronically or otherwise), used on a pay-per-play, coin-op or other for-charge basis, or for any commercial purpose.  Any permissions granted herein are provided on a temporary basis and can be withdrawn by Interplay Entertainment Corp. at any time.  All rights not expressly granted are reserved.

Modem and Network Play.  If the Software contains modem or network play, you may play the Software via modem transmission with another person or persons directly without transmission through a third party service or indirectly through a third party service only if such service is an authorized licensee of Interplay.  For the purpose of this license, a "third party service" refers to any third party service which provides a connection between two or more users of the Software, manages, organizes, or facilitates game play, translates protocols, or otherwise provides a service which commercially exploits the Software, but does not include a third party service which merely provides a telephonic connection (and nothing more) for modem or network play.  Authorized licensee services are listed on the Interplay Entertainment Corp. World Wide Web Site located at http://www.interplay.com.  This limited right to transmit the Software expressly excludes any transmission of the Software of any data streams thereof on a commercial basis, including, without limitation, transmitting the Software by way of a commercial service (excepting those specific commercial services licensed by Interplay) which translates the protocols or manages or organizes game play sessions.

Acceptance of License Terms.  By acquiring and retaining this Software, you assent to the terms and restrictions of this limited license.  If you do not accept the terms of this limited license, you must return the Software together with all packaging, manuals and other material contained therein to the store where you acquired the Software for a full refund.


EDIT: emphasis added. According to this, we are technically not even allowed to post Trek based models anywhere for free download. Thankfully, Paramount has been kind enough to overlook that and allow us to have our fun. (see my sig)

This is why I tire of the endless flames about rights and permissions to SFC models. If you make or modify a Trek model it does not, and will not ever belong to you; Paramount has complete rights over it and may use it as they see fit or decide to stop allowing SFC/Trek mods of any kind at any time.


here-in is the truth.  Some like it ...  some don't.  Some don't have a problem working with it ..  some really get upset. 

Some understand this simple legal point ... and others will rant for ever (and still be wrong).

Bottom line:

What Bonk has posted is the truth.

This does not take away from our work.  It does not take away from what we can contribute to the ongoing saga of what history will undoubtedly record as one of the greatest SCIFI adventures ever written.

As for the future prospects of our work ... 

IMHO ...   we can either grow with the industry, acknowledge change, (and if we play our cards right) ...  even make a worthy contribution to that on going saga.

Bickering over who has the "rights" ....   some how ..  I don't see that as helping us out a whole lot!

If you aim at nothing:  you WILL hit it every time !

Offline wulf111

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Re: Trek-Online.com giving us guys here good reviews
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2006, 07:11:25 am »
i agree with F_W and OlBuzz i think we have had enough of this. no one group is trying to steal others works they are just CYA's i personally dont care who uses my models i just make them for the fun of it not for glory or reputation its just for fun guys. sometimes you guys take things a little too seriously. lighten up a little and have fun doing what you are doing. as i always say dont sweat the small stuff, its all small stuff.


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