Topic: Ferret's bar and grill "Is anybody else monitoring this game?"-World In Conflict

[Panzergranate]

I'm still engrossed playing Call Of Duty 2 and Call Of Duty 3 online.

 COD 2 has better maps  and guns (PPSH, PPS42, SVT 40, Bren Gun, etc.) but COD 3 has larger (better) team battles and placeable landmines.

I published a set of WW2 Wargames rules over a decade ago, which are due for an update, and they've been translated into 3 other languages incliuding German, French and Italian. As an anti-tank balsitics expert, I was fed up with the gross inaccuracies and vagueness of tank and anti-tank rules, so I came up with a way of translating anti-armour ballistic maths into percentage dice rolls. It also helps having access to declassified translated Rhein - Metal Borstig range tests of all German and captured anti-tank weaponry and munitions.

If a gun with a particular AP shell can penetrate a maximum of 100mm. of Nickel based armour at range X, then it has a 50% chance of a first round penetration of a target protected by 50mm. of Nickel based armour at range X, and a 75% chance of penetrating a target with 25mm. of armour at range X. This is why anti-tank guns have to have so much "over kill" capabilty just to ensure the odds of a first round penetrating hit are good. The current standard is set at a 70% probability of a first round penetrating hit at 2,000 metres on a typical Soviet built Main Battle Tank front on.

The WW2 German 88mm. L98 had a better than 90% chance of a first round penetrating hit on an M4 Sherman at 1,000 metres!!

The Russians were actually loosing the tank battles in 1941 mainly due to obstelete anti-tank shells (APHE when the world had moved onto solid no exploding shoti) propelled by cartridges using something not much more than gunpowder. Add in poorly trained crews (5 hours training on tanks in late 1941) in tanks relying on flag signal to communicate at unit level and one has a receipe for a millitary disaster.

I always play as Soviets at wargames conventions and generally play 1941 and 1942 games as the tanks fielded then were just so bizare. Anyone ever seen a Russian T35 Land Battleship?? Looks impressive in 1930's May Day parade films and still impresses players and spectators in model form 60 years later. The usual comment on seeing the 5 turreted tracked monster is, "What the f**k is that??!! Its like a battleship!!"

Another quote from players new to early Soviet non-T34 based armour is, "A BT5 tank can move that far in a turn?? How fast do they do?? What 69 MPH on road??!!" Yep, the BT 5 still holds the land speed record for a ready for battle combat tank even today!! And it was based on an American design rejected by stupid beaurocrats back in the 1930's, which left US tank development severly handicapped until 1944.

I'll look out for this game as it sound good.

[Brush Wolf]

Panzergranate, what set of rules are you talking about? While it sounds like it works at a lower level than I like to play I would definitely be interested in reading them.

Christie's designs were years ahead of their time. Although in hindsight the rejection of his designs was wrong we already had very reliable track laying systems in service. At the same time the Russian were desperate for a tank that could travel at a reasonable speed as most of their own designs topped out in the ten to twenty KPH range on road. Another thing that restricted the adoption of his ideas was the almost universal view that tanks were to support the infantry instead of the reverse that was being proposed by a limited number of military minds.

[Panzergranate]

Tank supporrt the infantry.... oh yesand the world saw just how the French cocked up with that idea in 1940!!

I liked Christee's flying tank, the M.1932. which the test pilot only tried once and wouldn't go near again. The Russian bought that as well and developed the T80 glider tank which was towed behind a PE 8 light bomber and released to fly the last 20 miles on a pulse jet motor. I liked the fact that it was only after numerous crash landings that they figured that the tank nedded to have the tracks running flat out when landing to touch down safely. I've seen the viideo of the T80 glider tanks actually landing during the Polish campaign iin 1944!! Really eird to see a tank actually flying!!

Ironically the US adopted the Christee suspension system the moment he died in 1944 on the M24 light tank.

All modern tanks and most motorcycles run his suspension system.

It was a great age of maveric inventors back then.... Edison, Hghes, Christee, etc all.

Ironically, when he died in 1944,  J. Walter Christee was in the middle of suing the Russian, German and British governments for patent infringments over the suspension system as they were all using it without licence and definately not paying royalties either. Despite WW2 being in full swing, lawyers were still busy!!

Picture the scene in Hitler's bunker.... Mien Fuhrer, der Russians have broken through again and a Mr J. Walter Christtee  has launched a plagarism action against us in the US courts!!

The just don't make mad genius inventors like that anymore!!

Oh, he also invented Nickel Aluminium armour as used in quite a few light armoured vehicles today. I used to be the gunner in one such vehicle over 20 years ago.

And he invented Aluminium welding so that he could built his flting tank prototype.

Hollywood should make a film of his crazy life.

[Ferretlxix_XC]

Demo is available, and I'm enjoying the heck out of it.  1.2 gig D/L as a warning. 

[Ferretlxix_XC]

The Demo is freaking great!!  Alien is getting this one for me.

[Ferretlxix_XC]

I'm still engrossed playing Call Of Duty 2 and Call Of Duty 3 online.

 COD 2 has better maps  and guns (PPSH, PPS42, SVT 40, Bren Gun, etc.) but COD 3 has larger (better) team battles and placeable landmines.

I published a set of WW2 Wargames rules over a decade ago, which are due for an update, and they've been translated into 3 other languages incliuding German, French and Italian. As an anti-tank balsitics expert, I was fed up with the gross inaccuracies and vagueness of tank and anti-tank rules, so I came up with a way of translating anti-armour ballistic maths into percentage dice rolls. It also helps having access to declassified translated Rhein - Metal Borstig range tests of all German and captured anti-tank weaponry and munitions.

If a gun with a particular AP shell can penetrate a maximum of 100mm. of Nickel based armour at range X, then it has a 50% chance of a first round penetration of a target protected by 50mm. of Nickel based armour at range X, and a 75% chance of penetrating a target with 25mm. of armour at range X. This is why anti-tank guns have to have so much "over kill" capabilty just to ensure the odds of a first round penetrating hit are good. The current standard is set at a 70% probability of a first round penetrating hit at 2,000 metres on a typical Soviet built Main Battle Tank front on.

The WW2 German 88mm. L98 had a better than 90% chance of a first round penetrating hit on an M4 Sherman at 1,000 metres!!

The Russians were actually loosing the tank battles in 1941 mainly due to obstelete anti-tank shells (APHE when the world had moved onto solid no exploding shoti) propelled by cartridges using something not much more than gunpowder. Add in poorly trained crews (5 hours training on tanks in late 1941) in tanks relying on flag signal to communicate at unit level and one has a receipe for a millitary disaster.

I always play as Soviets at wargames conventions and generally play 1941 and 1942 games as the tanks fielded then were just so bizare. Anyone ever seen a Russian T35 Land Battleship?? Looks impressive in 1930's May Day parade films and still impresses players and spectators in model form 60 years later. The usual comment on seeing the 5 turreted tracked monster is, "What the f**k is that??!! Its like a battleship!!"

Another quote from players new to early Soviet non-T34 based armour is, "A BT5 tank can move that far in a turn?? How fast do they do?? What 69 MPH on road??!!" Yep, the BT 5 still holds the land speed record for a ready for battle combat tank even today!! And it was based on an American design rejected by stupid beaurocrats back in the 1930's, which left US tank development severly handicapped until 1944.

I'll look out for this game as it sound good.

Which wargames do you play at the conventions?

[Zenister]

ah these kinds of posts are what i really missed about this community.

Yep, the BT 5 still holds the land speed record for a ready for battle combat tank even today!!

is this still true? or 'doctrinally true'? I've seen the Marines do some scary things in their Abrams... in one instance the column we were tracking was doing at least 70mph across the open desert.

[Panzergranate]

The M1 Abrams still only makes 45 MPH top whack compared to a BT 2's and BT 6's 69 MPH fully tooled up!!

Of course the BT 2 (and BT5) have "Tin Plate" for armour on the sides and rear.

I generally prefer to field the slower BT 7-1 and BT 7-2 plus the odd BT 8 (58 MPH top whack) which have decent (??) armour.

The BT's and the T26's give the German forces something to shoot at with their anti-tank rifles!!

A favourite question from spectators at conventions when viewing my Soviets in battle, usually with a finger pointing at one of my 5 turreted T35 landbattleships, is, "What the hell is that??!!"

I've written and published WW2 20mm. rules which can be found if you type "Panzergranate" into a search engine. If you're peeved at just how inaccurate all other WW2 wargames rules are with regards to AFV combat and firepower, then you'll enjoy these rules!!

The first time someone plays "Panzergranate" rules they're usually impressed or horrified at just how really good / moderate / bad they're AFVs are. The second time they're tank models mysteriously sprout spare tracks in all the places that real crews stuck spare tracks!!

Stug.III. upper hull sides are the most likely places to find spare tracks, M4 Sherman hull nose (only 52mm. rounded) is another. Basically all of the Achille's heels.

Not that spare tracks make that mucjh difference if hit by the long barrelled 88mm. L98 or shorter L71 version!!

 

[Zenister]

The M1 Abrams still only makes 45 MPH top whack compared to a BT 2's and BT 6's 69 MPH fully tooled up!!

 

I'm guessing this is "doctrinal speed"... I know the marines in the field do things that are not authorized otherwise (like yanking the governor off as soon as the unit deployed) and i've seen (vs my example referring to a radar track) a humvee that simply could not keep up with the abrams, it wasnt just faster it was actually pulling away.. 

[Panzergranate]

The Challenger can make 75 MPH without the turret fitted.

Most tanks are faster without the turrets fitted, as it makes up 50% of the tank's weigh due to the bulk of the armour being placed there.

As an ex-tank crewman, I can tell you that all tanks have a finite speed determined by their suspension system and tranmission control systems.

Unlike automobiles, tanks become harder to control the faster that they move. Things such as track whiplash, track innertia, suspension rock, etc. place stress on the undercarriage.

All the world's fastest tanks, from the 1930's such as the US M1929, M1931 and M1932 (T3), Soviet BT series, British A13, etc. all had one thing in common.... low weight and therefore low inertial mass narrow tracks.

At 50 MPH the top of the track run is moving forwards at 100 MPH, which means that to the driver struggling to keep the tank straight on course, he has to fight against the innertial mass of several tons.

The other problem is that the goveners are put in for a reason.... to stop track innertia induced downhill runaways. If you can remember the old friction (flywheel) driven kids toys of old, that's how the effect builds. So taking the govener off of a M1 would result in an uncontrolled runaway situation on even the shallowest of long downhill inclines when travelling at more than the governed top speed, with the same force of a runaway train.

The old 1970's Scimtar, I was a gunner / wireless op./ crew medic on, had a top speed of 60 MPH on the level (dry) and 50 MPH fully tooled and kitted up.

Our armour was 61mm. front, sides and rear.

Powerplant was a 4.2 litre Jaguar car engine and the suspension was Christee type.

Armament was 1 x M1919A2 and 1 x 30mm. Rarden hyper velocity auto-cannon

Overall weight was around 8 Tons.

 

[Ferretlxix_XC]

Been playing this game.  It's a heck of alot of fun.  I'll do more of a write up later.  This game is actually making me wish that my lappy was a DX10 machine.