Topic: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?  (Read 3003 times)

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Offline Celestialnaut

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What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« on: August 12, 2006, 04:24:04 pm »
I always thought of the Kzinti as lions, but Miraks seem different.  What animals are they most like?

Aren't the Lyrans most similar to bobcats?

Offline AlchemistiD

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2006, 06:54:18 pm »
Kitties.

My pet kitty want's to take over the galaxy.  And he's got red fur. 

HE'S A FORWARD AGENT OF THE KZIN HEGEMONY, A MIRAK SPY HERE TO PREPARE EARTH FOR INVASION!

And to get scratched behind the ears.  He's adorable as hell.

Offline EmeraldEdge

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2006, 07:14:07 pm »
Um, aren't the Mirak dogs in SFC?

Offline AlchemistiD

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2006, 11:33:50 pm »
Nay thee.  The Lyrans and Mirak are cats. 

Offline EmeraldEdge

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2006, 12:37:21 am »
I say nay unto thee.  Lyran and Kzinti are cats.  Mirak are a different story.  Take a look in the manual and tell me that's a cat.  Then look some of the past discussions on the matter and you'll probably find that it's a case of cats and dogs in SFC land.

Offline AlchemistiD

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2006, 01:17:04 am »
Nay thee again!  The Mirak ARE the Kzinti!.  Notice in SFC2/OP, their class names always start with a "Z-".  As in "Z-CL" or "Z-FF".  The Mirak are there from Starfleet Battles, where they were called the Kzinti.

Offline EmeraldEdge

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2006, 05:40:37 pm »
And I say nay to thee again! heh.  The Mirak are based on the Kzinti.  The Kzinti intellectual property, being owned by a different individual than the rest of Star Trek and SFB, the rights to use them would have to have been purchased above and beyond the price of licensing all the other material.  To get around this they created a replacement race that resembled them the Kzinti.  As Nevin didn't hold any copyright on the letter "Z" or any of the ship designs they were free to be transfered over from the SFB license.  So, the Mirak are based on the Kzinti in much the same way a lot of folks say SFC is based on SFB.  One is not the other, but they sure resemble the other a lot. ;)

Offline Magnum357

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2006, 05:44:11 pm »
All I know is that "SFB" Kzinti and Lyran are Felion type Mamials, at least that is what the SFB manuals indicate.  Granted, they don't look exactly like a Cat/Bobcat/Lion, but I guess they did evolve on planets with animals with similar Genetics.   :P

As for the Mirak in SFC, you got a point that pic of the Mirak Captain doesnt seem to look very "Cat-like".  Maybe the Artists for Taldren wanted to make the two races (Mirak and Lyran) look different so people wouldn't get confused.  ::)
"I sure am glad I like SFB!" - Magnum357 (me)

Offline EmeraldEdge

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2006, 07:06:57 pm »
I'm sure there's more than one way to draw a cat-like creature, especially when the Lyran is pretty much hairless and has batlike ears (surprisingly looking more like descriptions of Nevin's Kzinti from his non-Trek books).  They surely find ways of drawing human looking folks in different ways (Klingons, Vulcans, Romulans, Humans...).

Of course having been through these discussions before, and doing a quick search using the words "Mirak" and "canine" you'll find a lot of references about Taldren making an effort to make them more dog like.  I believe there were even comments about it from the devs at one point on the old boards, but my memory is such, anymore, that I can't remember exactly what was said.  Heck, there's even fan fiction written with Mirak being canine.  You'll find comments like:

"Due to licensing concerns, Star Fleet Command altered the Kzinti into the more canine Mirak."

as well as

"and probably why the Mirak were given canine/wolfman qualities as opposed to feline"

and

"
I'm guessing that Taldren decided to make the Mirak and Lyrans mortal enemies by making the Mirak K9(?). Totally relieving themselves of being accused of copying the Kzinti from a licensing point. Can you say, "smoke screen"? 

As a sidebar, there was a race in SFB that was K9. They were located in the section of space between the Lyrans and the Kzintis. They were wiped out shortly after warp drive was discovered by their neighbors. Go figure!  "

Now, You'll also find reference to them being feline at some sites, and fan fic.  Such as Mobygames saying:

"The other feline race, the Mirak (Kzinti), rely heavily on missile-armed ships, with often devastating effectiveness."

Now, this could be explained by the fact that game reviewers usually pay about 2 seconds of attention to the game, and having any knowledge of the source material (he references the Kzinti) probably lead him to the assumption that their replacement would be feline as well.

A preview at Gamespot (and other places) mentions them being feline, but they also call the online multiplayer universe the "metaverse" and not the later adopted name of "dynaverse", so it was obviously not in a finished state when the article was written.

In reality, though, most if not all (and I would venture to say all left playing at the very least) Mirak players tend to think of themselves as Kzinti and feline, completely disregarding the copyright dodge and just going with SFB history, even if they do occassionally say Mirak (although I don't venture into the D2 forums much anymore, it's been a while since I saw anything but Kzinti, I believe).  Personally I like to think of them as feline as well, but I believe they were intended to be canine (an idea which I always hated).


Offline AlchemistiD

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2006, 08:05:20 pm »
Nay thrice, Emerald Edge!

The Kzinti are property of Larry Niven, who wrote them into an episode of Star Trek The Animated Series (TAS: "The Slaver Weapon").  Elements of other TAS episodes (Mostly "Yesteryear"), have also been incorporated into ST lore.

Offline EmeraldEdge

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2006, 09:40:59 pm »
Um, yeah, I'm aware of that.  I believe in the previous post I even said "Niven's", didn't I?.  They did appear in TAS, as I think everyone here knows (It was one of the more memorable episodes from when I was a kid), but the rights to the Kzinti remained with Niven, and not Paramount, so there are licensing issues to use them anywhere. Their appearance in TAS is very much different than in the non-Trek novels that Niven has written, from what I've read, however.  For instance, in TAS they appear to be more cuddly cat types, whereas from what I've read (haven't read the books, just info on them), in his books they have bat like ears, and their females are basicly mindless breeders.  It believe that TAS has been stated not to be canon as well, so even though folks may hold to it, it would be like holding to what was written in one of the Trek books.  Nice if you like it, but when the powers that be get around to tackling a subject, it's what happens in the live action TV episodes or the movies that counts.  To date, the Kzinti have not appeared on the live action screen, to my knowledge. 

That said, I do not believe that "Mirak" have appeared anywhere but SFC and fan fic.  They were a replacement creation to avoid copyright issues, while still remaining true to the Starfleet Battles incarnation of the Kzinti.  The game demands that combat capabilities, ship designs, etc., which were not copyrighted by Niven, remain in the game, so only the races biological charactersitics and name would need to be changed.  Thus "Mirak", who were not in TAS.

Offline 3dot14

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2006, 09:31:44 pm »
ROTFL, if we have to argue over something, can't we argue about something more worthwhile, like M**** Phot**s?

And BTW I think Emerald is right on this one, Mirak is created to do an end-run around Kzinti copyrights. As a result it had to be slightly different than the feline (Lyran/Kzinti)

Offline Celestialnaut

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Re: What animals are SFC Miraks and Lyrans most similar to?
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2006, 10:26:53 pm »
So, are the Kzinti/Kzin lion-like?

Let's ignore the SFC pictures for a second, because the Lyran doesn't even look like a dog or a cat, but a weird rhino thing.

According to Wikipedia's article on SFB, "Distantly related to the Kzinti, the Bobcatish Lyrans border the Klingons, Hydrans and Kzinti. "  So I guess they're more like bobcats.

Also:

Carnivons
    A race of canine derived warriors, they appear to have a genetic link to both the Kzinti and Lyrans. The only thing that any of the three races ever agreed on was that the universe was not big enough for more than one of them. The Carnivons were eventually pushed out of known space by the other two. (Originally between Lyrans and Kzintis, may still exist in Delta Sector and Sargasso Octant.)