Topic: Bartok, Dizzy help I must be going nuts,.. um more nuts !

[Skaren]

Okay so I am playing with the RDSL mod cause I really like the exotic ships in it.  I am trying to get a handle on manipulation of the ship models and porting them around,..  and here in my problem.

The RDSL mod is installed fine, game runs fine, I can see the Vorlon ships in the game and the folders used in the Assets\Models, I can see the folders that contain the Vorlon models etc.

Yet when I open up Ship edit 39902b and review the shiplist.txt for the RDSL mod,..  I cannot find any reference to the Exotic ships.

 

So then I say lets just skip ship edit, and go right to the shiplist.txt itself and I open it with excel and look for any reference to the /Vor folder for a the Vorlon BB ship model.  None there ?  I search for anything Vor, nothing in the spreadsheet. 

I know I am looking at the correct shiplist.txt yet I see no reference to any of the exotic ships.  Yet when I fire up the game there the damn things are.

What gives ?   

And no I am not buying that the Shadows had something to do with it 

Also just for larks I ported the contents of the Mimbari Sharlin Cruiser over to a standard OP 4.0 machine and used ship edit to reference the fed BB to use the Sharlin.Mod.  I correctly put all the files into the fbb folder and pointed the ship edit to the Sharlin.Mod file as instructed.

When I fire up the game using that fed BB I get no ship visible during game control panels on left but black screen where ship should be.



Some one help

[Skaren]

I found it instead of it normally being in the meta assets folder it is located in the assets\specs folder.  Ship edit shows those exotic ships correctly.

I will try now using the import export utility to move a ship from one list to the other. 

I am still unsure why the Sharlin.mod model would not display correctly replacing the Fed BB image any thoughts on that?

[Dizzy]

Make sure the ship is in the right race slot. Make sure the 'Class' entry is unique. The shiplist's geometry entry must 1st match the name of the folder the mod is in and then must match the name of the .mod. If you have that right, then you should be ok.

A lot of the times when I'm messing with ships I'll forget to change the .mod name. Lets say I use the Fed BB geometry entry: assets/models/fbb/fbb.mod. Basically all I'm doing is using the F-BB 'Class' ship as a testbed for a model. So I load up the F-BB in game and then the custom model must be in the assets/models folder and then the .mod must be called fbb.mod in order for it to show.

I sometimes forget the last step. hehe  It's wise to create another model folder for testing insted of using an existing one that you will later have to restore. I use a subfolder called assets/models/TestFolder1/TestModel1.mod. You can copy and paste the F-BB, then change the 'Class' so its a unique entry, let's say for this example, it'd be F-T1. As in the Fed slot, test ship 1. I think you get the idea...

[Skaren]

Right on the money, I went and reviewed the fed BB (trying to make it take the Sharlin model) and noticed the class type as blank.  I filled it in and it worked, I never changed it and am confussed as to why that happened but will keep an eye on it in the future.

I also ported out successfully a whitestar into the XC hardcore, which I like as a good base shiplist.  I realized the import export function does not move the model image and once I did that presto everything worked like a charm.

Why is it important to list them as class type "special"  ?  I actually tried CA for the whitestar and it worked?

Man give me more models !!!!!

Once you get the hang of it this is not that hard !



Thanks for all the help Dizzy

[Dizzy]

"Special" keeps it out of missions and out of the shipyards on the server.

Also, stop importing and exporting. Start copying and pasting then altering. Use Excel. So that'd be copy and insertion. As you become more proficient editing your ships, move further farther and finally so far away from shipedit that you dont use it anymore. It makes for a buggy shiplist.

Also, when you get where u want... Make sure you start from a clean stock or OP plus list and then copy+insert+change the ships how you want. If you import and export from your shipedit, you will end up with a buggy shiplist. If you are there, ditch shipedit alltogether.

[Bartok]

Greetings Skaren and Dizzy -

I'm sorry I didn't even notice this post/thread until just now.  Sometimes I log in only to go directly to a board where I got a thread notification. 

It sounds like Dizzy helped you through this and you're out the other end (so to speak) of your dillema.  I've been tweaking a lot in the version I've been working on and the RDSL list does have some unique things in it.  For my part, I'm working with the Lyran="First Ones" (shadow and vorlon vessels) and the Coalition and Alliance (Klink/Fed) slots.  The last two are merged lists already and that cause me some issues - particularly when I was first donating PF's from the Gorns to the Fedz.....

Anyways - I do use ShipEdit extensively, and while Excel is most powerful and useful I find the GUI useful.  As far as making buggy shiplists, I've not had many bad experiences with it.  Usually after a session of heavy editing i'll run shiplistchecker which catches glitches including "blank spaces" which will prevent a hull from being built.

http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/sfc2_op/Tools_and_Utilities/shiplistchecker.zip

When u use this - install it in the root directory of your op install that you're using as your testbed for your shiplist.  It works quite well IMHO.

Bartok

[Skaren]

Ya all my issues have been solved it was just a trick of the mod moving the real shiplist into a place I was not familiar with.

Man there are some neat models at Battleclinic.net.  Talk about browsing while at work !!!

Ship edit is great and appreciate all the help you folks have given me.

I can see the next campaign I run for my crew will be pretty novel.  We had always like the ideal of if you found a cloak you could put it on a ship.  Now things like that,.. and many more are possible.

You don't know if anyone has actually fleshed out a Hyperion Cruiser or other ships from B5 that are not in RDSL.  I am guessing I will be using Ship edit to make my best interpretation but wondered if others already had. 

[Bartok]

You don't know if anyone has actually fleshed out a Hyperion Cruiser or other ships from B5 that are not in RDSL.  I am guessing I will be using Ship edit to make my best interpretation but wondered if others already had. 

You know - I can't remember bout the hyperion, I think it's probably out there.  I've got the Omega Calss Destroyer and Starfury's which I haven't put in yet, but I used the starfury's on my last server.   I did finish porting in the Minbari Tinashi which wasn't in RDSL.  I made it a PF carrier with the Nial fighter 

[Skaren]

I would be interested in picking up any of the other ships that have their hardpoints filled out, power etc, that you may have.  If you wouldn't mind sharing that ?

Maybe down the road, no rush.  Like I say I am thinking of running a B5/sfc mixed campaign down the road like 6- 12 months for my crew of players.

I am thinking of porting them into the XC hardcore shiplist that seems the best base I have seen yet.  Stock OP 4.0 just has too much stuff never used to thumb through.

The RDSL shiplist is just too messy to look at.

Again thanks for all the super info/teaching/guidance that you and Dizzy have given me.  Who knows where I will be in a few years   

So my next ?  What determines if a ship shows its shields in the choose ship area, I notice that many of the created ones do not show shields or values for shields and ship outline is missing.  Is there a way of correcting that?  I can see that we are not going to create a new outline for say the WhiteStar.  But when making the whitestar why not base it off an existing hull say Hydran and then just mod that ships characteristics to fit the WhiteStar.  Then would you have an outline, and be able to see shield strengths.  Just curious about why it seems that folks choose to have no outline when they build a new ship like the Sharlin.

[Dizzy]

Hardcided. Cant change it. If race A doesnt have a UI from Race A, then it wont show.

[Bartok]

Greetings -

I'd be more than happy to share what I've worked on thus far.  In actuality I'm looking to launch this server sometime after memorial day (going to be away for a bit until then).  

I've only really begun using Milkshape to import/export .mod files.  The significance of hardpoints and assigning them I haven't done.  I may be confusing your question though.  There are hardpoints in model geometries which play a role in where "events" occur - source of weapon fire, damage textures go there - etc.  -- actually this is just a guess.  Regarding the hardpoint or the UI you use for the ship in shipedit that's a different thingy.  

The visible outlines in the choose ship/shipyard interface has to do with the sprites file (I believe I'm remembering a post from Bonk).  Until that get's cracked I don't think new "outlines" will be able to be put in game.  I believe your example of substitution might work, using a hydran hull and then just changing the geometry file - haven't played with that yet.   In the RDSL shiplist the Sharlin is based on the D7 hull - for location of mounts etc.  In the readme for the mod it said to use PCA for the slot.  Anyhow - the D7lines up REALLY nice.   When you fire the heavy disruptors they look to emit directly from the underside wing gun mounts - really nice....

I go on long - glad you're having fun with it - it is engrossing isn't it  

[Skaren]

Yes it is engrossing,.. more so the more you know

Yes I think my newbie terminology is confussing you.  Basically I feel it is import for my players to be able to look over the available ships in their build list and see the values of shields, without teaching them to us Ship edit.

So I notice that the Whitestar from RDSL has no outline/shields/etc.  I assume that is cause it is a new creation ship and was not just a modified copy of an existing one.

When you mention the Sharlin is based on the D7 hull, I sorta see what you mean, I see the weapon load in the shape of the D7, but still do not understand why D7 ship outline and shield values are missing.

For example when I was testing yesterday I took the Sharlin image attached it to a fed CA hull and started playing around with the Fed CA weapon loads and shield loads etc.  Thereby turning it into a Sharlin and still allowing the shields to be seen.

I am guessing you folks instead of modding an existing ship are creating a new one, hence no outline or shield values. 

If I am correct my question why create a new one instead of modding an existing one?  It seems you lose the shield info with no apparent benifit. 

I don't mean to take up too much of your time, I will probably learn more when I start working on just creating new ships not quit there yet though, the instructions for ship edit ended at creating new ships, no info.  I will fudge around though and see what happens.

[Skaren]

Ahhh,  I see the Sharlin shows up all info if you view it from the Klingon fleet window, I have been using the Fed window.

So that is the key to it.

I am guessing that if you put another nationality into a fleet it shows up with no shield or outline.  OK

So why is it I cannot find the correct UI for the Shadows ?  Seems like no race at all will display them correctly ?

[Bartok]

Ahhh,  I see the Sharlin shows up all info if you view it from the Klingon fleet window, I have been using the Fed window.

So that is the key to it.

I am guessing that if you put another nationality into a fleet it shows up with no shield or outline.  OK

So why is it I cannot find the correct UI for the Shadows ?  Seems like no race at all will display them correctly ?

  - re the Sharlin, you got it.  In the RDSL list the Shadows use the Lyran slot.  If you're looking at the ship and wondering why it doesn't display any shields it's because the Shadows don't have shields   maybe that's what you're seeing not sure...

I think the Drakh raider FODR has shields.  The shadow vessels also lack marines, so they can't capture.  They also can't be captured because you can't beam marines to them.  If you look in the shipedit entry you'll see "NT" in the special role drop down    NT =No Transport - typically used for fighters/pf's and monsters.  Hmm, would be interesting to see if you could make a PF "capturable" 

There are a lot of codes in the special role field and there's only limited definitions for them in the manual.  Some aren't covered, don't know if there's a list or supplement to the shipedit prog, but it is a fat manual...

Cheers

[Skaren]

Gotcha no sheilds is the reason.  I had no clue the special drop downs could do that, thanks for the tips


AAAHHHHH  the manual,...

After googling and looking,.... I find I had it all the time in the damn ship edit folder   

[Bonk]

RTFMS!   

Excel is a far superior way to edit shiplists, though shipedit has its uses (do not save a shiplist with it, it has a few nasty bugs).

I think what you may be encountering with the Shadow ships is the UI column - you must select an existing valid UI for it to display properly in game - even so, there may be no appropriate UI to use (part of why we want into the sprites file). Shipedit may or may not display a ship properly if the UI is from a different race slot, I have't used it enough to know.

[Bartok]

RTFMS!   

Excel is a far superior way to edit shiplists, though shipedit has its uses (do not save a shiplist with it, it has a few nasty bugs).

Hmmm, well, I do use Excel sometimes but I usually work pretty slowly, so shipedits ok.  I used shipedit on my previous shiplist/server and other than PPD bug for the most part it seemed fairly bug free?  I use shiplistchecker - does it catch the bugs of which you speak? or is there something more insidious?

And while I've got your attention    Models.siz - am having some problems resizing a model, works fine with some not others.  Not sure if I'm seeing a geometry issue or is/are there multiple places Models.siz needs to be? ... or is referenced some other .ini file?

Any resources you could point me to would be most appreciated 

[Bonk]

Shipedit has a tendency to add blank spaces to a shiplist (shiplistchecker will catch these), but it also will partitally duplicate records on some lines (shiplistchecker will not catch these).

I don't work with model.siz much, but it only needs to go in the root of the models folder and it is TAB delimited. Perhaps you are missing the TABs? DieHard works with the model.siz file relatively frequently, you might try it out on him...