Topic: After a week banning. let's pick up where I left off.

[KBF-Crim]

It's not 1 out of 50 or 1 out of 10. It's more like 2 out of 5 I'd say.

Until there is a scientific gathering of data concerning each specific set of connections between each player and every other player...it's all BS...there is no hard number....and no one factor....

I never had 2 out of 5 on my worse day on dial up.....1 out of 20 was bad....at 2 out of 5, I wouldnt bother playing...

And as of yet....no one has been able to point to any real world situation by naming the ANY player with said firewalls or providing even the most basic of evidence other than "yeah I had problems connecting"....

Start posting and recording drops,the mission,the hex, each players connection, Operating system,System stats, DX version,Internet service provider,Whether or not both players have the updated OP DDL's,etc ,etc

And lets stop mixing the terms of software firewalls with hardware firewalls...

[762_XC]

Well maybe we're talking about different things then. I'm talking about "host left" messages, unplayable lag, speed bugs, or anything else that make the mission unplayable. 2 out of 5 may be on the worst day with the worst players (in terms of connectivity) but on average it's far more frequent than 1 in 20.

If the incidence rate was as low as 5% server admins would not feel compelled to include a mandatory retry rule.

[Bonk]

....at 2 out of 5, I wouldnt bother playing...

Exactly. When I used ZoneAlarm with OP I experienced 4/5 or 5/5 - nearly quit playing. Until it occurred to me to uninstall ZoneAlarm.

And as of yet....no one has been able to point to any real world situation by naming the ANY player with said firewalls or providing even the most basic of evidence other than "yeah I had problems connecting"....

I have outlined my personal case a number of times. Back on the Triangle I think it was. I was behind a linksys router properly configured and running Win2K. Running Zonelarm I dropped from nearly every mission. I uninstalled zoanalarm and my problems disappeared.

We are discussing software firewalls. (it is assumed that if your router has a firewall that you will disable it).

I have been fighting this battle for years, and gaining little ground.

I know for a fact that thay are bad for missions, don't believe me? Too bad. Prove it to yourself.

If you are unwilling to perform the necessary experiments to prove it to yourself, then I am sorry, there is nothing I can, or am willing to do (for you).

I grow weary, I'm about ready to give in and say fine - lets all run software firewalls all the time and suffer unstable missions. I can't imagine why we'd want to do that but it seems to be what people want.

I am done with this discussion. I've said my piece. No software firewalls on MySQL test servers period. If you insist on running a software firewall on The Forge or Universe At War, do not submit bug reports of any kind and please stay clear of me on the map.

One we have the server on MySQL stabilised under load I intend to look at seriously fortifying the firewall detector if possible. That is all I can do to force the issue. I'm done pissing into the wind.

[Capt Jeff]

You're not pissing into the wind Bonk, I agree completly, and so does everyone I've talked to.

Taking the time to shut off the firewall before getting on D2 seems extremely worth it if it means eliminating host left or CTD's/lag/disconnects.

Just remember to turn it back on before going to the porn sites..... 

[Bonk]

Its encouraging to hear that, thanks. (Though don't assume it will eliminate host left or CTD's/lag/disconnects - greatly reduce, yes - eliminate, no - its not a magic bullet.)

I know I said I'd shut up about this, but I just remembered another thought I had - perhaps we could contact all software firewall producers and explain to them in great detail how SFC dynaverse works and perhaps they could make allowances for it in their firewalls... a bit of a long shot but might be worth looking into.

[Capt Jeff]

Didn't mean to say eliminate, just greatly reduce 

And when Storm Season 3 comes about, there will be a rule something like this:

Please make sure your internet connection and computer are as stable as possible.   Make sure you've disabled your A/V, firewall, and any updaters that may be running on your machine.  Also, make sure you are running as few proceses as possible on your computer to help with system performance.

[762_XC]

Yeah, AV is another big culprit.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Please make sure your internet connection and computer are as stable as possible.   Make sure you've disabled your A/V, firewall, and any updaters that may be running on your machine.  Also, make sure you are running as few proceses as possible on your computer to help with system performance.

For those who wish to comply, I'm not sure disabling is going to get the job done.  With the latest version of Norton AV, at least, I've noticed it keeps giving me alert messages and "I've just blocked a worm" messages, even after I've disabled it!

It's rather annoying.   So, on the machine I game on (in the back study where kids are verboten, only I am allowed on, and I can control exactly which sites it goes to) I've uninstalled Norton completely.  I still operate behind my router's NAT.

-S'Cipio

[Bonk]

For those who wish to comply, I'm not sure disabling is going to get the job done.  With the latest version of Norton AV, at least, I've noticed it keeps giving me alert messages and "I've just blocked a worm" messages, even after I've disabled it!

* Bonk goes into apoplectic fits...

[Bugman67]

GDA-S'Cipio,
          I have Norton AV also and there is a button to turn the worm detection off as well as the regular disable button.


-Bugman-

[GDA-S'Cipio]

GDA-S'Cipio,
          I have Norton AV also and there is a button to turn the worm detection off as well as the regular disable button.


-Bugman-

Thanks, Bugman!  I'll go look for that.

-S'Cipio

[Dizzy]

And when Storm Season 3 comes about, there will be a rule something like this:

Please make sure your internet connection and computer are as stable as possible.   Make sure you've disabled your A/V, firewall, and any updaters that may be running on your machine.  Also, make sure you are running as few proceses as possible on your computer to help with system performance.

YES![/b]

You made my day. Now we have Bonk, me and Jeff. That leaves DH's servers, Scipio's and Bartok's servers left to join the no software firewall club. Muhahahaha! For the players, resistance is futile. You will lower your shields and be assimilated into the collective or destroyed!

[762_XC]

The best way to turn off Norton is through "Add/Remove Programs".

It is the most insidious, invasive piece of crap you can install on your puter.

[Bonk]

Hear, Hear t00l! 


Maybe I'm not done ranting about this....

Read the text below very carefully:

Warning about Firewall and similar software

Most Firewall programs, Web Spam filters and other TCP/IP driver-based products (including spyware!) do not correctly implement the entire WinSock API. The shortcuts taken by the developers of such products cause Apache to fail. If you insist on leaving such programs installed, and have problems with your Apache installation, consider the suggestion below.

Problems Installing or Running Apache 2

If you encounter problems running Apache 2 under Windows, such as corrupted or incomplete file downloads, unexplained error messages, or a conflict with a software firewall, please place the following three directives in your httpd.conf configuration file to see if they eliminate the problems:

    EnableSendfile Off
    EnableMMAP Off
    Win32DisableAcceptEx

The general problem is that many people install various add-ons to windows (such as software firewalls, virus checkers, etc) that break some of the advanced functionality that Apache uses to speed the sending of files. The above directives turn off the advanced functionality and make Apache fall back to more basic (but slower) techniques. This resolves most, but not all of the potential problems. If you continue to experience problems, be certain that there is no spyware installed on the box, which exhibits exactly the same sorts of flaws (often more obviously).

If you encounter problems installing Apache .msi distributions, we have provided the TROUBLESHOOTING page to help you diagnose and fix most common installation problems.

http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/binaries/win32/

I have come across this with Apache, in particular Norton/Symantec AV is known to interfere with AcceptEx. Perhaps people will be more inclined to believe the Apache developers than me...

I just searched the serverkit source for "WinSock"

Searching for 'WinSock'...
<individual results omitted for NDA compliance>
38 occurrence(s) have been found.

Looking at the files involved and code contexts I can safely say that the WinSock API is critical to the dynaverse serverkit, If I had a copy of the client source I'm quite sure I'd see similar results.

[Dizzy]

Bonk, forget trying to explain it. Just post the rule and declare it's our way or the highway. Otherwise you'll be explaining till you're blue in the face because some just won't accept it no matter how logical it is. Those players will no longer be players. Good riddens.

[KBF-Crim]

Bonk, forget trying to explain it. Just post the rule and declare it's our way or the highway. Otherwise you'll be explaining till you're blue in the face because some just won't accept it no matter how logical it is. Those players will no longer be players. Good riddens.

Ok...this isnt border line...it's baiting...

Please knock it off...

[Dizzy]

What? Is my middle name glass? So what if I want to know WHO they are. I in fact already know, thank you very much. I'm simply making the statement that there are unbelievers among us and we must purge them quickly at all costs before it's too late!

 Have some respect for our community members, whether they're running firewalls or NOT.

[Bonk]

...there are unbelievers among us...

 


Um, wait, this is serious. I've just presented my best evidence yet above.

[FA Frey XC]

Dizzy,

While I understand - probably more than many - your delightfully light-handed approach to tackling sensitive topics in our community, may I suggest that you realize that some people that have properly configured firewalls can run the game just fine.

It's your tone that most .. amuses me.

So, without further adieu....

 

[KBFLordKrueg]

Bonk, forget trying to explain it. Just post the rule and declare it's our way or the highway. Otherwise you'll be explaining till you're blue in the face because some just won't accept it no matter how logical it is. Those players will no longer be players. Good riddens.

Well, THAT'S what this RAPIDLY shrinking community needs...fewer players...

While I'm in favor of NOT running a firewall, your approach to the situation, as usual, is a bit OTT.

Don't ya think this horse is dead already?