Topic: I'd like to ask the following question about the Miranda-class...

[Chris Johnson]

...Why is it classified as a Light Cruiser?  I'm just curious.  My biggest case as to asking why is the weaponry the class of ship has as opposed to the Constitution-class.  Could it be a CL because of its compact and shorter design?  Perhaps because of something else?  I'm wondering, because couldn't a Miranda-class paste a Constitution-class by taking advantage of her additional forward and aft weaponry? *shrug*

Maybe I'm not sure as to how a class of starship can be classified as a specific hull type (CL/Light Cruiser, CA/Heavy Cruiser, DN/Dreadnought, etc.).

[Commander La'ra]

It's smaller than a Constitution-class yet seems to be built for the same general-purpose mission profile, which fits the 'light cruiser' terminology.

As far as 'pasting' a Connie goes, which version of the Constitution-class weaponry are you using?  The old fan-theorized 'only forward guns' version or the more canon version that does, in fact, have full weapon arc coverage?  The TOS version or the TMP version?

There's also the never-talked-about-on-Star Trek-but-assumed-in-real-life factor that the Constitutions, being larger, have larger guns.  RL light cruisers often had more guns than their heavy cruiser counterparts (which, ironically, often led to light and heavy cruisers having similar displacement) but they were usually 5 or 6 inch compared to the 8 inch guns on the heavies. 

This could be a serious difference...at the Battle of the River Plate, the Ajax and the Achilles scored multiple ineffectual hits on the Graf Spee, but the Exeter, with her eight-inch guns, was fully capable of penetrating the German ship's armor.

There's also shield power, hull strength, etc to consider.

Of course, when analyzing the Star Trek II battles, keep in mind the Reliant was an active-duty vessel whereas the Enterprise had been relegated to training duty for some time.

[Mr_Tricorder]

The space combat in Star Trek II is so atypical you can't make any real comparison between the Constitution and the Miranda classes as far as how well they perform in battle.  Firstly, you never see weapons hitting shields.  Every time one ship fires on another, the shields were down, so you get no concept of comparative shield strength.  Secondly, the Miranda class dealt a crippling blow to the Constitution class in a first strike that the Constitution class wasn't prepared for, making the Miranda (presumably a lesser vessel) more than a match.  Thirdly, the Miranda class was commanded by someone with way above average intelligence, creativeness, and resourcefullness, but practically no experience in commanding a starship.

[Commander Maxillius]

if you're going to be really realistic, you'll almost never find an instance where a heavy battles a heavy or a light battles a light single handedly.  in RL, you'll get cases of frigates getting jumped by dreads or small fleets of heavies, battle groups of CA/CL/DD or wolfpacks of 5+ DDs or FFs.  Most commanders won't engage an opponent unless they have a clear advantage, or are sure of making an advantage.  Thus trying to compare cruisers to how well they stand up in battle against each other is useless.

[Mr_Tricorder]

but that's what SFC is all about!

[Chris Johnson]

Well, realistic or not, Trek was never real to begin with, yet it's talked about in such a geeky fashion.  My impression was that, given even the circumstances of the Enterprise and Reliant in ST2, when I was looking at a Miranda-class model, I had to ponder as I counted the number of Phaser banks and launchers both had and wondered if the Miranda-class was more a built-for-battle kind-of class of Starship that could paste the Constituition-class... I guess it would've gone down to the other attributes ranging from shield and hull strength to how much power either could generate for the ship and the speed both could take.

Well, in any case, thanks for the help.

[Commander La'ra]

Well, realistic or not, Trek was never real to begin with.

No, but if you can apply real-world logic to interpreting the circumstances in a fictional universe, said universe usually ends up benefitting from your efforts.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Well, realistic or not, Trek was never real to begin with, yet it's talked about in such a geeky fashion.  My impression was that, given even the circumstances of the Enterprise and Reliant in ST2, when I was looking at a Miranda-class model, I had to ponder as I counted the number of Phaser banks and launchers both had and wondered if the Miranda-class was more a built-for-battle kind-of class of Starship that could paste the Constituition-class... I guess it would've gone down to the other attributes ranging from shield and hull strength to how much power either could generate for the ship and the speed both could take.

Well, in any case, thanks for the help.

I've always thought of it as a contest between a F-CC+ and a F-NCL, and let the F-NCL get in the first volley.

-S'Cipio

[Commander Maxillius]

Well, realistic or not, Trek was never real to begin with, yet it's talked about in such a geeky fashion.  My impression was that, given even the circumstances of the Enterprise and Reliant in ST2, when I was looking at a Miranda-class model, I had to ponder as I counted the number of Phaser banks and launchers both had and wondered if the Miranda-class was more a built-for-battle kind-of class of Starship that could paste the Constituition-class... I guess it would've gone down to the other attributes ranging from shield and hull strength to how much power either could generate for the ship and the speed both could take.

Well, in any case, thanks for the help.

I've always thought of it as a contest between a F-CC+ and a F-NCL, and let the F-NCL get in the first volley.

-S'Cipio

Naah, either F-CC or -CAI.  No drones on screen.  Besides, the NCL doesn't have rearward torpedo launchers.  Try the F-CAI vs. F-NCM matchup.  You'll see the reason Kirk doesn't do much in the way of real battle instead of talking