Topic: For Future Refernce

[Tus-XC]

As of right now Atolm/pulling all of his files from mass model sites (IE battleclinic) and most likely mirrors and/or private site.  Over the past 8 months there have been several instances where his model release/port policy has been abused (though not by the same person) and Though he has let them slide on several occasions, this one was the last straw.

here

What you are seeing is a model that was never intended for public release and was given to several people with the stipulation that it was for private use.  In this case private use meant for the individual's computer only.  Why it was released is beyond me, and why there was no contact between the releaser and the atolm/azel is puzzling me still.  Folks there is a differnce between a general public release of a file and a private distrobution.  No matter what the law says on whether or not .mod are protected is irrevalent especially in the case of private release.  Whether or not you believe that the author loses all control over the model is irrelavent in any case.  What happened here was something that is in direct conflict with the stipulations placed on the private release of the model.

I'm making this post because well people are going to find out soon enough so you might as well be informed.  I'm also making this post to provide an example on what happens when you disrespect the modelers wishes and go against the agreement that you and the author have made.  People, don't do this, don't think that because its ".mod" file that you are the person that should be making the decisions.  What happend here could have easily been avoided by just contacting atom/azel before the release was made, one simple e-mail, im, hell for me a phone call.  But because of either a lack of respect or ignorance, well we get this.

As for future releases, at this time i'll probably say that is pretty much ruled out.  I don't think any attempts to convince atolm/azel, at least by myself, are going to change his mind.  I'm sorry folks, but you can only push person so far before they push back.

[Centurus]

I really am sorry to hear about this turn of events, but I don't blame Azel/Atolm.  I hope that BCFiles will pull this file, and all files, without debate.  SF has gone too far. 

[CaptainTombs]

bummer so thanks to one person, people wont get to see more outstanding work bummer

[Chris Johnson]

Given the emboldened highlight, this comes to no suprise.  Given an example in the past.

(Edit: Well, at least it was emboldened[/url] until the edit, but I guess the message still stands.)

[Centurus]

I'm hoping that Azel will still allow renders to be posted of his work.  Because of his unique design asthetics, I seriously doubt anyone can recreate his work on their own.

[Centurus]

Given the emboldened highlight, this comes to no suprise.  Given an example in the past.

Very true.  This has happened before, and he has been warned, but he just does not care. 

[Major A Payne]

Tus. Does this include any of his drawn 2d images being made into 3d models?? Also does this apply to other game mods as I believe my latest mod has at least two of Atolms released models in there??

[Raven Night]

I think there are a few important things to point out. From what I understand, this was a misunderstanding, not a deliberate push against Atolm. Also, Atolm has indicated to me that he does not intend to pull any other files from BCFiles, only the red file, and Starforce has agreed (of course) and is posting the correct file. He simply didnt know (as far as I can tell) that this file in the red color was not intended for release.

I will certainly stand corrected if this is the case, but that is my understanding from listening to all sides.

Also, I have to stress to all involved, and the patrons here, the absolute necessity to respect an authors work. Legal action alone should not be the only dissuading factor when working with someone elses work. More often than not, egos get bruised on both sides, and it becomes a....well...p**sing contest frankly. It always seems to deevolve into something 4th grade. Why is it so difficult to simply respect authors wishes? Why is it so difficult to simply indicate ones dissapointment in a mature manner and request that the mistake be corrected?

Why does this kind of situation always contain too much drama and not enough use of grey matter?

Guys, we are modding a game that does not belong to us, using a trademark that does not belong to us based on a storyline that does not belong to us. We are ALL borrowing someone elses ideas. We might want to remember that the next time our egos speak before our brains do.

[GotAFarmYet?]

Why does this kind of situation always contain too much drama and not enough use of grey matter?

Guys, we are modding a game that does not belong to us, using a trademark that does not belong to us based on a storyline that does not belong to us. We are ALL borrowing someone elses ideas. We might want to remember that the next time our egos speak before our brains do.

Now that is an interesting point!
Don't know what happened, don't know if I really care to know. All I know is people just need to use manners is all. The question is always the same and always simple is this what I want to happen to me?

[Raven Night]

I want to follow up by saying that I spoke to Tus...he was very forthcoming, it was a good conversation. All parties are correcting this situation. It is my opinion this would have been best to handle in a private manner, I hope that this stands as an example for others to follow.

My door is always open people. I have a knack for fixing this sort of thing (not always, but often)...bend my ear if you need to.

[markyd]

Yeah noticed this yesterday when i tried to dl your rommy ships the new ones... look very nice... still wouldnt mind getting my hands on em, the textures look awsome and by studying other work is the only way to learn  

So if you and az wouldnt mind..... can i have a copy of ur new roms  

[ModelsPlease]

This incident was truly a mistake. I know from first hand actually realizing later on that I was involved, as well as an afore mentioned party(s). Somewhere along the lines a mistake was made. This mistake has now been rectified and hopefully , everything will return to normal and everyone involved  will know now to go to the source and make a final confirmation prior to release. I commend all those invloved and one's close at hand for fixing this situation before it became a major blow to the Star Trek community as a whole.

-MP

[S31-Riptide]

Imagine that.... a mis-understanding... I've been there before.

Amen Raven!

Guys, we are modding a game that does not belong to us, using a trademark that does not belong to us based on a storyline that does not belong to us. We are ALL borrowing someone elses ideas. We might want to remember that the next time our egos speak before our brains do.

It can't be put any better then that!!!

[Azel]

Ok here is the deal
First off the Damage with the Red Ra'Tar has already been done...so pulling the file though helpfull in future instances..but what is done cannot be changed
I am Not pulling my models from MODS that I already OKed...I spoke to many people concerning this.
I am not pissed,  so much as Dissapointed, as I can be reached in many ways...I am upset at the nonsense that has occured over the past year.
I have always given an OK with my work...this was just the icing on the cake sort of speak.

Now...this is what will happen...I will no longer be releasing anything new for either/all  communities that was done 100% by me
Collaborations will be under the Juristiction and descression of all involved, but mainly they, not me will have final say as to what will happen to it.
Those who Know me personally know that I have always been ready, willing, and able to help out wherever I can based on my scheduling...

As of this moment I will no longer part of any mainstream community
How long will this last?...I am not sure...I am just dissapointed
For all of you that I know personally ...i will still be around via the means that you have been using
For everyone else...Thank you for your continued support and keep up the great work

Its been Fun

[OlBuzzard]

To see this saddens .. but frankly does not surprise me.  It seems as though there is always the push for the "new" ... and push aside of the old.  Sometimes this is at the expense, wishes and desires of those who have already give so much.

I guess for me I will simply never quite understand the politics of this community  ( and often the politics of WHO is more important that WHAT has happened).

I am glad to see a resolution of sorts ...  Yet the fact remains of the "ego" factor that often over rides and openly ignores the simplest request of modelers, authors, artists and others around us  (all of course for the better good of the community).

It is my sincere hope that some day that will change.  Perhaps some day values that respect individuals which result in deeds of honor, rather than the drive of politics for manipulation and control will once again light our path.

All of us owe so much to so many.  What sort of price tag do we dare place upon respect and honor to those same individuals?

I submitt to you that to ignore such matters is to jeopardize a part of us that all of the wealth that man kind posses can not began to restore.

(I hope this is not taken as a rant ..  but rather a genuine plea)

thanks

[exadvent]

I fullly support what Olbuzzard said. 

[Raven Night]

Ok here is the deal
First off the Damage with the Red Ra'Tar has already been done...so pulling the file though helpfull in future instances..but what is done cannot be changed
I am Not pulling my models from MODS that I already OKed...I spoke to many people concerning this.
I am not pissed,  so much as Dissapointed, as I can be reached in many ways...I am upset at the nonsense that has occured over the past year.
I have always given an OK with my work...this was just the icing on the cake sort of speak.

Now...this is what will happen...I will no longer be releasing anything new for either/all  communities that was done 100% by me
Collaborations will be under the Juristiction and descression of all involved, but mainly they, not me will have final say as to what will happen to it.
Those who Know me personally know that I have always been ready, willing, and able to help out wherever I can based on my scheduling...

As of this moment I will no longer part of any mainstream community
How long will this last?...I am not sure...I am just dissapointed
For all of you that I know personally ...i will still be around via the means that you have been using
For everyone else...Thank you for your continued support and keep up the great work

Its been Fun

I am dissapointed that you would make this choice. You are one of the few people in the community coming up with original designs and giving me a run for my money. I would hate to see my best creative competitor take a powder. Although it is your right to bow out, you may want to consider what you will lose if you do so...especially losing the ability to trounce my designs left and right with your creative mind. Think about it.

[Star Dragon]

Azel...

   A break is good for everyone once in a while.

   At first I was concerned greatly (especially at the thought of you possibly revoking the previous requests I made  ) But now that I understand what's occurred I honestly feel that someone with your creative vision will not (and CANNOT) stay away for long. While I can't wrap my mind around a few of your more "exotic designs", without you there would be no Soulwolf Class or Bloodwolf!!!  Imagination is a powerful and hungry beast that must be kept fed!

  So it is my sincere hope that this is not a prolonged goodbye... merely "a see you in a bit"....


SD

[Reverend]

Thats so sweet... I'm so glad that since this occurred on your website, your people doing it, under your jurisdiction without any remorse, that it give you the opportunity to make yourself look swell, supportive, and so...sniff...sniff.. sad that he's not going to be around anymore for you to compete with. Just like with the nambly-pambly accusation against Tus, WickedZombie, Tus, and Atolm all asking you not to fornicate their material on BCfiles without their consent, and you do nothing. Yet, you will all but nary release any of your models at all, and then turn around and play this little air of moral superiority as though this is not of your doing (remember, inaction of a problem is the same as being the cause of it). I have been around almost as long as any of us here practically, and have watched and listened to the same old complaint... everyone professional-level who works with you always ends up being disappointed, mislead, and abused.
I know the response to this will be (excepting some pseudo-corporate wording) along the lines of  'you dont know what youre talking about'... 'you havent worked with me, youre listening to heresay just like everyone else'... yet having know these people since the beginning, putting myself on a personal level with my heroes, namely modellers who do good work and are humble about it. I, and we all here, have enjoyed your occasional works too, but to treat others as one would who is upon a self-appointed pedastal begins to make ones head hurt from the rough condescending scruffing of the hair instead of actual even-leveled respect.
Your responses to this post have been very kindly and gentlemanly... but it stinks of cynicsm and self-righteousness, and therefore renders it just about appalling... couldn't leave certain little phrases out, could you? Well, you may fool the uninformed and opinionless, but not the involved and intelligent. Nothing changes it seems.

[Raven Night]

Thats so sweet... I'm so glad that since this occurred on your website, your people doing it, under your jurisdiction without any remorse, that it give you the opportunity to make yourself look swell, supportive, and so...sniff...sniff.. sad that he's not going to be around anymore for you to compete with. Just like with the nambly-pambly accusation against Tus, WickedZombie, Tus, and Atolm all asking you not to fornicate their material on BCfiles without their consent, and you do nothing. Yet, you will all but nary release any of your models at all, and then turn around and play this little air of moral superiority as though this is not of your doing (remember, inaction of a problem is the same as being the cause of it). I have been around almost as long as any of us here practically, and have watched and listened to the same old complaint... everyone professional-level who works with you always ends up being disappointed, mislead, and abused.
I know the response to this will be (excepting some pseudo-corporate wording) along the lines of  'you dont know what youre talking about'... 'you havent worked with me, youre listening to heresay just like everyone else'... yet having know these people since the beginning, putting myself on a personal level with my heroes, namely modellers who do good work and are humble about it. I, and we all here, have enjoyed your occasional works too, but to treat others as one would who is upon a self-appointed pedastal begins to make ones head hurt from the rough condescending scruffing of the hair instead of actual even-leveled respect.
Your responses to this post have been very kindly and gentlemanly... but it stinks of cynicsm and self-righteousness, and therefore renders it just about appalling... couldn't leave certain little phrases out, could you? Well, you may fool the uninformed and opinionless, but not the involved and intelligent. Nothing changes it seems.

First, BCFiles is not my site. Second, my employees had nothing to do with this. Third, you know noone I have worked with. Fourth, you have me confused with someone else obviously. I've been in this community from the VERY beginning, back in the days of Interplay and SFU, and in 7 years I've had three complaints. Sorry you feel this way, unless of course you are in error, which I expect.

I work very little as of late in this community...say the last 2 or 3 months or so. Outlance members, save a few current, are the only ones I have dealt with, with the exception of Korah a while back if my memory serves me correctly. Others have worked for Nightsoft before, but with contracted and compensated work mind you. I am not aware of any instance where I was ever involved in any sort of matter such as this, since the only designs we distribute are those I have designed...we do not even make canon designs. So I am a little puzzled at your response...perhaps you have me confused with Starforce?

As to the matter with Atolm and I, we have always had a "friendly" competition going...I make a design, he trounces all over it with brilliance. Let's face it...he is brilliantly inventive. I like the competive motivation to improve my work. As far as I am aware, I have never tried to, or participated in the design, release or distributioin of any of his designs, nor he with mine. A long time ago, in the Korah days, Atolm designed a version of one of my designs that was never officially released by Nightsoft, but was released by Korah. It was not a Nightsoft sanctioned design.

As to the tone of my comments...I cannot speak for that, only to say that being in this community since the beginning of the franchise makes one feel at home, and I suppose gives one some feeling of iconic status perhaps. I suppose one person's self-righteousness is anothers guidance. Take it as you will.