Topic: Intel is desperate  (Read 2418 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jack Morris

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9879
  • Gender: Male
Intel is desperate
« on: March 07, 2006, 05:30:09 pm »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060307/ap_on_hi_te/intel_developers

just think, 3 months ago AMD stock was under 20 easy, and now? Intel? still struggling at 20. How art the mighty fallen.

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13067
Re: Intel is desperate
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2006, 06:37:19 pm »
Link

just think, 3 months ago AMD stock was under 20 easy, and now? Intel? still struggling at 20. How art the mighty fallen.


Intel is having its problems but is far from desperate.  They were the unrivaled king for so long that they forgot what can happen with a true competitor and with the anti-trust suit going they have to make sure they stay totally within the law in competing with AMD or risk a major slapdown.  Their production facilities are enough to produce any possible demand for chips, AMD can't say the same.  Among their problems is they continually underestimated the Athlon from the beginning.  Then they repeated that "crime" with the Athlon 64 / Opteron.  Add to that they over estimated the potential gigahertz ceiling (10 ghz compared to the ~3.9 that they reached).  This left them with the current situation where they can't keep scaling the gigahertz and have to try to compete by adding cores to CPUs that were designed for single core.

Most of the time since the introduction of the original Athlon AMD has held the performance crown and with the introduction of the Athlon 64 they took the technology lead.  By starting the anti-trust case they opened up access to the laptop market and the server market both of which are very lucrative.  Right now AMD is making hay and building the quality reputation at the high end which will help them once Intel gets over their current technological doldrums.  AMDs only problem right now is that they have an opening and don't have enough production ability to take full use of it.  In a way they are lucky that Intel wasn't content to let AMD hold the speed crown.  If they were then AMD would have been unlikely to have pushed the envelope as far as they had and Intel would not have over reached themselves and gambled that AMD was bluffing about the Athlon 64 / Opteron being designed as multi core (no bluff, it was).  This leaves AMD with the tech lead, performance lead, cooler running chips and the ability to scale to 4 core and possibly higher much more easily than Intel.

The last 3 rounds were:
Athlon vs Pentium II / II - Athlon by a judges decision.
Athlon XP vs Pentium IV - 15 rounds and Athlon won on points with the Pentium IV gaining ground in the late rounds.
Athlon 64 / Opteron vs Pentium IV / Xeon - Athlon 64 / Opteron by a knockout.

The question is what new contender can Intel bring out?  They have the resources to work on multiple designs concurrently (AMD does not) which allows them to design a whole stable of chips and take the cream of the crop to push ahead with.  They could quite well come out with a chip that blows away the Athlon 64 / Opteron.  I doubt that they will as they will likely rush it to completion and hope for a draw in round 4 while preparing for a knockout in round 5.  The big question is will they underestimate the next AMD chip and will AMD stumble as they did repeatedly in the K5/K6 days where Intel beat them soundly?

For now AMD pays off debts and build reputation (and manufacturing ability) in markets they desperately need while Intel is working to maintain mindshare and prepare for the next round.  Hopefully both will thrive and a 3rd  competitor will emerge.  I prefer a healthy market with multiple companies competing on a level playing field with no one dominant enough to push around the clientele (namely me of course).
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Mr_Tricorder

  • 3D modeler /animator
  • Hot and Spicy
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1040
  • Gender: Male
  • Trekkie at Large
    • My myspace page
Re: Intel is desperate
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2006, 06:53:44 pm »
Maybe Intel should bring back the Blue Man Group.  I loved those commercials  ;D

Seriously, I like the way that the CPU market is shaping up.  I've been an AMD supporter for a while and I really like how Intel is taking them very seriously now.  Intel now knows that they can't just slap "Pentium 5" on an underdeveloped processor that performs worse than its predecessor (like they did with the original Pentium IV) and expect it to take the computer world by storm.  Hopefully will be seeing some high quality stuff from both Intel and AMD in the first round of their next gen processors.

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13067
Re: Intel is desperate
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2006, 07:09:27 pm »
I'd love to see VIA pull a CPU out that could at least compete at the low end (vs Celeron / Sempron) and low power (laptops). 

If AMD could (or would if they can) license VIA (or someone) to produce a version of the Athlon it would help a lot.   Just like Intel originally licensed the x86 to AMD, Harris and IBM.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline E_Look

  • Grand High Scribe
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6446
Re: Intel is desperate
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2006, 09:40:42 pm »
Daewoo once produced 80286 clone chips, and good ones, too.  Would that they might enter the market again and begin some serious competition.

Offline Tus-XC

  • Capt
  • XenoCorp® Member
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2789
  • Gender: Male
Re: Intel is desperate
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2006, 10:21:26 am »
not quite so desperate ;)

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/07/woodcrest_server_leads_opteron64_in_benchmark/

Quote
Intel Woodcrest server leads AMD Opteron 64 server in performance test
Wolfgang Gruener
7 Mar 2006 21:21
San Francisco (CA) -  In the first head-to-head match-up for performance supremacy between AMD and Intel processors, staged by Intel, in quite some time, an  AMD Opteron 64-based Sun Fire X4200 server running at 2.4 GHz, was placed against an example of a future HP ProLiant server running Intel's Woodcrest platform.  We're compiling the final figures for you, and will have the raw numbers available soon, but the final tally graphs shown at IDF do not bode well for AMD, with what appeared to be as much as one-third better performance, by early indications.

In one benchmark result released today, the Sun Fire server consumed 324 watts of power running a spreadsheet-related test, whereas the HP ProLiant Woodcrest server consumed 308 watts.  If this and other related numbers hold up, the "Dual-Core Duel" may at last have become a ballgame.
Rob

"Elige Sortem Tuam"

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13067
Re: Intel is desperate
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2006, 06:03:20 pm »
Daewoo once produced 80286 clone chips, and good ones, too.  Would that they might enter the market again and begin some serious competition.

Several companies made copies of the 8086 and 80286 as intel neglected to mark the microcode as being under copyright.  Under the law of the day if you published without a copyright notice you put it in the public domain.  The 80386 was marked as being under copyright so they were unable to copy it and didn't put the resources into making their own designs. 
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13067
Re: Intel is desperate
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2006, 06:26:34 pm »
not quite so desperate ;)

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/07/woodcrest_server_leads_opteron64_in_benchmark/

Quote
Intel Woodcrest server leads AMD Opteron 64 server in performance test
Wolfgang Gruener
7 Mar 2006 21:21
San Francisco (CA) -  In the first head-to-head match-up for performance supremacy between AMD and Intel processors, staged by Intel, in quite some time, an  AMD Opteron 64-based Sun Fire X4200 server running at 2.4 GHz, was placed against an example of a future HP ProLiant server running Intel's Woodcrest platform.  We're compiling the final figures for you, and will have the raw numbers available soon, but the final tally graphs shown at IDF do not bode well for AMD, with what appeared to be as much as one-third better performance, by early indications.

In one benchmark result released today, the Sun Fire server consumed 324 watts of power running a spreadsheet-related test, whereas the HP ProLiant Woodcrest server consumed 308 watts.  If this and other related numbers hold up, the "Dual-Core Duel" may at last have become a ballgame.



I note certain facts here.

1/ "staged by Intel".  That is very significant in that Intel has never to my knowledge ever done comparisons publicly with AMD chips.  They have repeatedly tried to pretend that the Opteron does not compete with the Xeon.

2/ They are comparing a next generation intel chip to a currently on the market AMD chip

3/ They chose the 2nd highest speed dual core Opteron for the test (2.4 ghz instead of the 2.6ghz)  Why not the fastest?  Would they have lost?

4/ There are 2 different 2.4ghz dual core Opterons one uses 110 watts the other 95 watts.  Which did they use?

5/ They could have compared to the 2.2 ghz Opteron low power chip (55 watts) but chose the high power model. 

It does seem as if Intel picked a chip that they could beat rather than the "best".  Anytime an interested party does the testing I look very closely and Intel is definitely an interested party.  I take this test with a very large grain of salt.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Tus-XC

  • Capt
  • XenoCorp® Member
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2789
  • Gender: Male
Re: Intel is desperate
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2006, 08:33:49 pm »
i also noticed who staged it, however i'm still waiting for the results to come out (which THG says they should be getting).  We can make a decision then.
Rob

"Elige Sortem Tuam"

Offline Mr_Tricorder

  • 3D modeler /animator
  • Hot and Spicy
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1040
  • Gender: Male
  • Trekkie at Large
    • My myspace page
Re: Intel is desperate
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2006, 09:58:19 pm »
I don't put much faith in benchmark tests anyway.  Not only are the results going to reflect the position of those conducting the tests, but also they usually don't reflect real world scenarios very well.  The "best" chip as far as benchmark results may not be the best chip for you.  Ultimately, the best chip is going to be the one that does everything you need it to at the best price with the longest useful lifespan and widest support.