Topic: we need an offical unofficial mod for SFC3

[Lepton1]

As many have noted, SFC3 has that unfinished feel to it.  A number of mods have been designed by some very dedicated fans that are really trying to address this issue.  The mods I am aware of are the OSD., TNZ, and Chris Jones mods.  What I think we need is one official unofficial mod for the community that could become a standard for the whole community.  SFC3 is seriously underpopulated in models and races.  These mods really try to address the shortcomings of the game. If we could get the modders together to produce a mod for everyone and if we could get the word out to everyone that this is going to be the new thing that everyone will have, then perhaps we can get the whole community to adopt this mod as the new standard version of the game as it were. With regular updates to expand the mod, it could be just like patching the game.

 Also, and here is the kicker, if this mod were to become the standard for the gaming community, it might force Taldren/Activision's hand for features the community is demanding.  This would occur in two ways.  First, if the community can create something better than the original (not hard to do), the producers may feel inclined to try to win us over more in the future.  Second, if the mod becomes the new standard, it would serve to direct the game's producers in the direction we would like it to go.  For instance, we say well we have all these new races we put in the game, it sure would be great if you guys want to patch this baby up or do an add-on if you could add new race slots.  

Mostly, I think I envision some exchange between the mod authors and the original software producers that could at least be to the benefit of the community.  I guess what I see is that this would give the community a barganing chip at least in what we would like out of the game.  If we have a community developed product that we prefer, we have the option of telling Taldren/Activision no when they introduce something in a patch or new product that we dont like.  Or at least, the mod could point the way to Taldren/Activision as to what the game could be if they would just try to make it better.  Sounds a bit far-fetched  I know, but I think at least we are entitled to have a full game with all the races and ships we want.  If the mod community can deliver that, I dont see any reason why we shouldnt all use it.

[Tulmahk]

I agree, there should be a 'standard mod'.  Especially since we probably won't be seeing a Dominon Wars expansion for SFC3 (though I still hold out hope).

After playing in The Neutal Zone mod for instance, the standard game just feels 'empty' by comparison.  You feel very limited and very constrained.  Invariably, your favorite ship isn't one of the stock ones that came with the game.

How a 'standard mod' would ever be established, I don't know.  But it remains a good concept.  

[Captain KoraH]

I would be willing to devote my time to a collaberative effort like this. The one big problem I forsee is that every modder has his own preferances, and getting everyone to agree will not be easy. The making of the thing would be a snap though, with experienced people doing the modding. Might even get some modelers to make new models just for this mod if it were going to be the be-all and end-all for SFC3 mods. Also, it would have to be damn good to satisfy everyone, or even most people.  

[RipperMan]

I am not sure how an official mod woudl be any different from any other mod - however. The Idea is bold and i like it.

Frost-Works is already working on 3 new mods for the Community, i will mention them in here and be making an announcment in other areas.

We will be doign the following mods for BC/SFC3

Star Trek Future War - Set in voyagers future, an all out war between the greatest races in the galaxy!

Babylon 5 - The long awaited and never done mod, Somethign the community has wanted for along time will now be done.

Star Craft - This will be a small mod, as their are not many ships to create. However the ships in Star Craft were wondefull! So i will be presenting them for you guys soon.

The websites for these mods are in creation - and the teams have already been pre assemlbed. If your interested in working on one of these.

I consider Star Trek Future War will have the best tallent from all the communities around the star trek modding world! Chris Jones is on board as are some of the greatest modelers we have seen to date.

Chris - i belive this is a good candidate to be that all important standard.
 

[Praxis]

I think Chris Jones' mod is the closest to a standard mod we can get.  I don't really think we can get a true standard mod, because we can't add races

[Impact]

What does this mod add??  I've not tried it.  I'm using the Neutral zone add on right now.  It adds in several races though none of them are seperately playable.  they are mixed in with the other 4(actually 2) races.  It really adds to the game.  Very nice, though a monster download.

Quote:
I think Chris Jones' mod is the closest to a standard mod we can get.  I don't really think we can get a true standard mod, because we can't add races  

[The_Pelican]

I'm finishing up a Dominion Wars Mod at the moment, which will be released sometime this week, just trying to contact all the modellers for permission. It adds a total of 65 New ships, which can only be a good thing. And I've somehow got it into a file which is only around 150MB.

Although it will be hard to top TNZ of course, that mod is just too damn good.......

[MarianoDT]

The best thing will be the official add-on/mod made by Taldren.

Until that, thank god for the mod community to make the game better to the lazy people (like me) who donīt want to add ships manually.

Good work    

[Captain KoraH]

Don't hold your breath MarionoDT.

I have been real busy getting the newest campaign going on TNZ, but I hope to be able to contribute something to the great mods that others are making now, and perhaps even integrate the best parts of each into one very cool and comprehensive mod.

I would also like to publically thank Pelican for devoting his precious time to modifying his new missions to work on TNZ.


I have but one comment left on this subject:

If one mod is to be made that becomes the standard, it will be the "standard" because that's what everyone wants to play, not because someone says it is.  

[Lepton1]

Quote:

I have but one comment left on this subject:

If one mod is to be made that becomes the standard, it will be the "standard" because that's what everyone wants to play, not because someone says it is.  

I think the real intent here is to make a mod that can be presented to the community as the "standard".  What would hopefully happen is that everyone who would try it out would stick with it.  Such that when you go onto GSA there would be enough people with this mod you would be almost unable to play with anyone unless you had it. Just like having the up-to-date patch.  I see the standard mod as strictly for GSA and single player.  I perfectly understand the idea of a customized mod for specific D3 campaigns, although it might be nice if there were a common base for these specilaized mods to start from such that you would not need 5 different assests folders to play on all of them.  Be that as it may, the standard mod if adopted by the community might also become part of the acti B and C servers if we ask for it.  These are clearly the most used servers and most specialized servers could never handle that volume of play, so the standard mod on those servers would be a boon to the overall community while allowing specialized servers their own level of flexibilty. I miss the heavy PvP play of the Acti servers, eventhough they are much maligned.  The specialized servers cant really handle that level of play.  The hope is that everyone will see how great the "standard" mod is and it will be embraced by the community.

[Chris Jones]

This concept is sound. However the difficulty with having a standard mod is that it would not be an official mod. Therefore it  will be a bit difficult to get 'everyone' on it.  I myself would love to speak with Taldren and/or Activision about what I think the public likes in a Star Trek PC game.  

What I have observed in 3 years of modding the SFC series is this:
(speaking from a Star Trek viewpoint, not so much SFB)


   Gamers want to have fun and have some order to things at the same time. Order and Kaos mixed up. They want to play the ships they see on the shows and movies, but they do not have to be nitpicked down to the last detail. Gamers want to have fun taking the Dominion against a Borg Cube, or re-creating Star Trek: First Conact or Nemesis on their 19 and 21 inch monitors. Big Fleet battles are a bunch of fun. Missions are a requirement. Lots of 'em. Single player skirmishes are way kool, but having a purpose behind them is what matters. Multiplayer via TCP or LAN is mucho fun for me. GSA gets a bit complicated in that everyone has thier own idea of what shoud be. No Mods, No Shuttles, No this, no that. Whenever I create a game on GSA that just says Play the Game, or FFA no restrictions, I get crowded.

The SFB ruleset was great way to begin the SFC series, but it was inevitable that the the canon trekkers and the SFB-ers would clash. The rules in SFB are not that hard to follow and offer a great standard for the game. My brother is in STOC. I have flown with them, and respect the structure they use with regard to the SFB rules. They have a Virtual Galaxy thats is very cool. However,  I, and a lot of people,want to fly Galaxy Class ships, Defiants, and Sovs -- along with K'Vorts and Negh-vars, Warbirds, Galors, and Jem Hadar fighters. Canon Trek with a few variants thrown in, perhaps. I truly enjoyed making SFC1, 2, and OP into TNG games with missions, audio, new graphics, etc.. I also acknowledge that SFB was the basis for SFC from the beginning.

The original point was about the 'standard mod'. There will always be disagreement, and anyone besides Taldren or Activision that tries to create a standard may not get get it fully accepted. Again, I would love to have a dialogue with Dan Hagerty or Erik Bethke on this. Being in the business world myself I understand the reasons for not having big high-detail ships, limiting the number of races that are playable, and keeping the controls somewhat simple. There are a lot of people who will just play it as is and not complain about anything or ever post anything, and I think game publishers bank on that.

People want order and kaos at the same time, with the abilty to heavily modify the game.

Thank you for reading,

Chris Jones

[RICK000]

Well said CHRIS, and as a few others above have suggested I also support a COMMUNITY APPROVED(I.E. a poll or vote)of a unified mod, and having known CHRIS since his beginning days at SFC 1 can't think of anyone more qualified to organize such, and let me be PERFECTLY clear on this point, this is not a flame to any other modder ,scripter,etc, the community has provided a WEALTH of talent to be shared and admired, but by that same token it has also shown all the opinions and frustrations with glitches, missing races,etc, I propose if folks are SERIOUS about this, a poll of sorts MUST be held to garner a working set of general specs and races, from there,revisions,alterations/improvements, fine-tuning and BETA testing( just like the official guys)and then finally after it's initial release, a follow up patch if needed, these are ALL things that MUST be considered for such a grand undertaking, tantamount to any gaming company releasing a game (except in this case for FREE!!  ), you're also gonna wanna poll for which ships make it to which class,subclass, race, etc, again I reiterate that this is NOT a reflection upon any one modder or etc( in the case of one modder's work seeing more "AIRTIME" than another),  but rather a working constraint for the sake of simply not OVERLOADING the mod!,for this to work as a UNIFIED mod, you're gonna need a UNIFIED community for it, hence the polls,once an overall consensus for EACH aspect( from ship designs to race selections to weapons specs) is met, you should find it a matter of organizing scripting specs,and prepping the final works to be a snap,truth be told, I imagine the most DIFFICULT part of such an undertaking would be the POLL itself, let's face it, with all of the EXCELLENT modders and scripters in this community, this mod is ALREADY 50%complete, the other 50% is gonna be the LOGISTICS of all of it, if this GRAND!! event ever comes to pass, I think the man to head it up should be CHRIS JONES INC!!( but this is ALSO subject to poll), I just placed my vote!!  

[Lepton1]

As many have noted, SFC3 has that unfinished feel to it.  A number of mods have been designed by some very dedicated fans that are really trying to address this issue.  The mods I am aware of are the OSD., TNZ, and Chris Jones mods.  What I think we need is one official unofficial mod for the community that could become a standard for the whole community.  SFC3 is seriously underpopulated in models and races.  These mods really try to address the shortcomings of the game. If we could get the modders together to produce a mod for everyone and if we could get the word out to everyone that this is going to be the new thing that everyone will have, then perhaps we can get the whole community to adopt this mod as the new standard version of the game as it were. With regular updates to expand the mod, it could be just like patching the game.

 Also, and here is the kicker, if this mod were to become the standard for the gaming community, it might force Taldren/Activision's hand for features the community is demanding.  This would occur in two ways.  First, if the community can create something better than the original (not hard to do), the producers may feel inclined to try to win us over more in the future.  Second, if the mod becomes the new standard, it would serve to direct the game's producers in the direction we would like it to go.  For instance, we say well we have all these new races we put in the game, it sure would be great if you guys want to patch this baby up or do an add-on if you could add new race slots.  

Mostly, I think I envision some exchange between the mod authors and the original software producers that could at least be to the benefit of the community.  I guess what I see is that this would give the community a barganing chip at least in what we would like out of the game.  If we have a community developed product that we prefer, we have the option of telling Taldren/Activision no when they introduce something in a patch or new product that we dont like.  Or at least, the mod could point the way to Taldren/Activision as to what the game could be if they would just try to make it better.  Sounds a bit far-fetched  I know, but I think at least we are entitled to have a full game with all the races and ships we want.  If the mod community can deliver that, I dont see any reason why we shouldnt all use it.

[Tulmahk]

I agree, there should be a 'standard mod'.  Especially since we probably won't be seeing a Dominon Wars expansion for SFC3 (though I still hold out hope).

After playing in The Neutal Zone mod for instance, the standard game just feels 'empty' by comparison.  You feel very limited and very constrained.  Invariably, your favorite ship isn't one of the stock ones that came with the game.

How a 'standard mod' would ever be established, I don't know.  But it remains a good concept.  

[Captain KoraH]

I would be willing to devote my time to a collaberative effort like this. The one big problem I forsee is that every modder has his own preferances, and getting everyone to agree will not be easy. The making of the thing would be a snap though, with experienced people doing the modding. Might even get some modelers to make new models just for this mod if it were going to be the be-all and end-all for SFC3 mods. Also, it would have to be damn good to satisfy everyone, or even most people.  

[RipperMan]

I am not sure how an official mod woudl be any different from any other mod - however. The Idea is bold and i like it.

Frost-Works is already working on 3 new mods for the Community, i will mention them in here and be making an announcment in other areas.

We will be doign the following mods for BC/SFC3

Star Trek Future War - Set in voyagers future, an all out war between the greatest races in the galaxy!

Babylon 5 - The long awaited and never done mod, Somethign the community has wanted for along time will now be done.

Star Craft - This will be a small mod, as their are not many ships to create. However the ships in Star Craft were wondefull! So i will be presenting them for you guys soon.

The websites for these mods are in creation - and the teams have already been pre assemlbed. If your interested in working on one of these.

I consider Star Trek Future War will have the best tallent from all the communities around the star trek modding world! Chris Jones is on board as are some of the greatest modelers we have seen to date.

Chris - i belive this is a good candidate to be that all important standard.
 

[Praxis]

I think Chris Jones' mod is the closest to a standard mod we can get.  I don't really think we can get a true standard mod, because we can't add races

[Impact]

What does this mod add??  I've not tried it.  I'm using the Neutral zone add on right now.  It adds in several races though none of them are seperately playable.  they are mixed in with the other 4(actually 2) races.  It really adds to the game.  Very nice, though a monster download.

Quote:
I think Chris Jones' mod is the closest to a standard mod we can get.  I don't really think we can get a true standard mod, because we can't add races  

[The_Pelican]

I'm finishing up a Dominion Wars Mod at the moment, which will be released sometime this week, just trying to contact all the modellers for permission. It adds a total of 65 New ships, which can only be a good thing. And I've somehow got it into a file which is only around 150MB.

Although it will be hard to top TNZ of course, that mod is just too damn good.......

[MarianoDT]

The best thing will be the official add-on/mod made by Taldren.

Until that, thank god for the mod community to make the game better to the lazy people (like me) who donīt want to add ships manually.

Good work    

[Captain KoraH]

Don't hold your breath MarionoDT.

I have been real busy getting the newest campaign going on TNZ, but I hope to be able to contribute something to the great mods that others are making now, and perhaps even integrate the best parts of each into one very cool and comprehensive mod.

I would also like to publically thank Pelican for devoting his precious time to modifying his new missions to work on TNZ.


I have but one comment left on this subject:

If one mod is to be made that becomes the standard, it will be the "standard" because that's what everyone wants to play, not because someone says it is.  

[Lepton1]

Quote:

I have but one comment left on this subject:

If one mod is to be made that becomes the standard, it will be the "standard" because that's what everyone wants to play, not because someone says it is.  

I think the real intent here is to make a mod that can be presented to the community as the "standard".  What would hopefully happen is that everyone who would try it out would stick with it.  Such that when you go onto GSA there would be enough people with this mod you would be almost unable to play with anyone unless you had it. Just like having the up-to-date patch.  I see the standard mod as strictly for GSA and single player.  I perfectly understand the idea of a customized mod for specific D3 campaigns, although it might be nice if there were a common base for these specilaized mods to start from such that you would not need 5 different assests folders to play on all of them.  Be that as it may, the standard mod if adopted by the community might also become part of the acti B and C servers if we ask for it.  These are clearly the most used servers and most specialized servers could never handle that volume of play, so the standard mod on those servers would be a boon to the overall community while allowing specialized servers their own level of flexibilty. I miss the heavy PvP play of the Acti servers, eventhough they are much maligned.  The specialized servers cant really handle that level of play.  The hope is that everyone will see how great the "standard" mod is and it will be embraced by the community.

[Chris Jones]

This concept is sound. However the difficulty with having a standard mod is that it would not be an official mod. Therefore it  will be a bit difficult to get 'everyone' on it.  I myself would love to speak with Taldren and/or Activision about what I think the public likes in a Star Trek PC game.  

What I have observed in 3 years of modding the SFC series is this:
(speaking from a Star Trek viewpoint, not so much SFB)


   Gamers want to have fun and have some order to things at the same time. Order and Kaos mixed up. They want to play the ships they see on the shows and movies, but they do not have to be nitpicked down to the last detail. Gamers want to have fun taking the Dominion against a Borg Cube, or re-creating Star Trek: First Conact or Nemesis on their 19 and 21 inch monitors. Big Fleet battles are a bunch of fun. Missions are a requirement. Lots of 'em. Single player skirmishes are way kool, but having a purpose behind them is what matters. Multiplayer via TCP or LAN is mucho fun for me. GSA gets a bit complicated in that everyone has thier own idea of what shoud be. No Mods, No Shuttles, No this, no that. Whenever I create a game on GSA that just says Play the Game, or FFA no restrictions, I get crowded.

The SFB ruleset was great way to begin the SFC series, but it was inevitable that the the canon trekkers and the SFB-ers would clash. The rules in SFB are not that hard to follow and offer a great standard for the game. My brother is in STOC. I have flown with them, and respect the structure they use with regard to the SFB rules. They have a Virtual Galaxy thats is very cool. However,  I, and a lot of people,want to fly Galaxy Class ships, Defiants, and Sovs -- along with K'Vorts and Negh-vars, Warbirds, Galors, and Jem Hadar fighters. Canon Trek with a few variants thrown in, perhaps. I truly enjoyed making SFC1, 2, and OP into TNG games with missions, audio, new graphics, etc.. I also acknowledge that SFB was the basis for SFC from the beginning.

The original point was about the 'standard mod'. There will always be disagreement, and anyone besides Taldren or Activision that tries to create a standard may not get get it fully accepted. Again, I would love to have a dialogue with Dan Hagerty or Erik Bethke on this. Being in the business world myself I understand the reasons for not having big high-detail ships, limiting the number of races that are playable, and keeping the controls somewhat simple. There are a lot of people who will just play it as is and not complain about anything or ever post anything, and I think game publishers bank on that.

People want order and kaos at the same time, with the abilty to heavily modify the game.

Thank you for reading,

Chris Jones

[RICK000]

Well said CHRIS, and as a few others above have suggested I also support a COMMUNITY APPROVED(I.E. a poll or vote)of a unified mod, and having known CHRIS since his beginning days at SFC 1 can't think of anyone more qualified to organize such, and let me be PERFECTLY clear on this point, this is not a flame to any other modder ,scripter,etc, the community has provided a WEALTH of talent to be shared and admired, but by that same token it has also shown all the opinions and frustrations with glitches, missing races,etc, I propose if folks are SERIOUS about this, a poll of sorts MUST be held to garner a working set of general specs and races, from there,revisions,alterations/improvements, fine-tuning and BETA testing( just like the official guys)and then finally after it's initial release, a follow up patch if needed, these are ALL things that MUST be considered for such a grand undertaking, tantamount to any gaming company releasing a game (except in this case for FREE!!  ), you're also gonna wanna poll for which ships make it to which class,subclass, race, etc, again I reiterate that this is NOT a reflection upon any one modder or etc( in the case of one modder's work seeing more "AIRTIME" than another),  but rather a working constraint for the sake of simply not OVERLOADING the mod!,for this to work as a UNIFIED mod, you're gonna need a UNIFIED community for it, hence the polls,once an overall consensus for EACH aspect( from ship designs to race selections to weapons specs) is met, you should find it a matter of organizing scripting specs,and prepping the final works to be a snap,truth be told, I imagine the most DIFFICULT part of such an undertaking would be the POLL itself, let's face it, with all of the EXCELLENT modders and scripters in this community, this mod is ALREADY 50%complete, the other 50% is gonna be the LOGISTICS of all of it, if this GRAND!! event ever comes to pass, I think the man to head it up should be CHRIS JONES INC!!( but this is ALSO subject to poll), I just placed my vote!!