Topic: They call this crap art?  (Read 13132 times)

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Offline Fedman NCC-3758

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2006, 03:21:16 pm »
If PBS has what the public wants they should have no problem supporting themselves. 
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Offline CaptStumpy

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2006, 03:59:18 pm »
Jackson Pollock was a pioneer of abstract expressionism. You don't like his work, don't look at it. But just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's "crap".

What's amazing is that alot of people that call abstract, "crap" are often the same kind of people that hang a Frank Frazetta poster and call it "art".

Pollock was an incredibly creative person and broke new ground. I like his work. His influence on abstract art is undeniable. Not all of his work is the paint drip/mixed material variety. Most well-known abstract artists began their career in realism and are extremely skilled renderers. Artwork's purpose is to invoke emotion and feelings and be a mechanism of expression of the artist and I'd say after reading a few responses on this thread he succeeded admirably. You want to advance society "forward" and "inspire"? Try engineering or propaganda or become a self-help circuit speaker. Personally, I think most "message" art is vain, pretentious and vacuous.

I've drawn and painted and done photography all my life. I'm a professional graphic designer, painter and photographer. When I was younger I used to think abstract was crap. That is until I actually was forced to try abstract by a wise painting teacher in art school. It was there I learned the finer aspects of color, form, contrast and scale. Abstract art is far harder to execute successfully than people imagine.

I'm often reminded about the group of house painters that claimed they could "do" a Picasso because they "painted". Think abstract's easy? Let's see some that you've done. If anyone here thinks that they could "do" a painting that would be equal to Pollock, put it up. Try doing a search of Pollocks work and take a look at other forms of abstract expressionism before you condemn the man's work as crap. I bet almost everyone could find something they like in abstract expressionism given an open mind and a willingness to overcome their prejudices.

I actually wonder how many here actually knew about this very famous and influencial artist before they heard of him on this thread.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 04:10:21 pm by CaptStumpy »
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Offline KBF MalaK

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2006, 06:13:01 pm »
If PBS has what the public wants they should have no problem supporting themselves. 

PBS has what commercial broadcasting (and for the most part cable) lacks-  ART

Think back a few years... who had Monty Python, Dr. Who, Red Dwarf, The Young Ones  ???

ONLY PBS

I'll gladly support them (I already do) but if the Govt. want's to put part of my taxes toward public television I'm all for it. Exposing the uncivilised masses to culture is a worthy enterprise IMHO. Anything has got to be better than the crap they play on the radio, broadcast on TV, and push on cable subscribers.
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Offline E_Look

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2006, 08:15:39 pm »
Okay, I'll give you a nod, Stump.

Your impassioned defense of abstract art does ring true.  However, there are too many artists who have not truly mastered these nuances and tonalities in the interplay among color, texture, form, etc.

Further, there are those, whether they have or not mastered to any degree these finer skills of fine art, presume then to issue sociopolitical messages, resulting in something sort of like a Sharon Stone press conference, that is to say, something rambling, incoherent, puerile, and often offensive, across a broad spectrum of people.

Don't like Frank Frazetta?  What wrong with high school geek pin ups?  What, you think we put up Einstein posters?  That's for wannabes.

Given that you are immersed in the world of art with a definite opinion on things, what do you think of Alphonse Mucha?

Jackson Pollock was a pioneer of abstract expressionism. You don't like his work, don't look at it. But just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's "crap".

What's amazing is that alot of people that call abstract, "crap" are often the same kind of people that hang a Frank Frazetta poster and call it "art".

Pollock was an incredibly creative person and broke new ground. I like his work. His influence on abstract art is undeniable. Not all of his work is the paint drip/mixed material variety. Most well-known abstract artists began their career in realism and are extremely skilled renderers. Artwork's purpose is to invoke emotion and feelings and be a mechanism of expression of the artist and I'd say after reading a few responses on this thread he succeeded admirably. You want to advance society "forward" and "inspire"? Try engineering or propaganda or become a self-help circuit speaker. Personally, I think most "message" art is vain, pretentious and vacuous.

I've drawn and painted and done photography all my life. I'm a professional graphic designer, painter and photographer. When I was younger I used to think abstract was crap. That is until I actually was forced to try abstract by a wise painting teacher in art school. It was there I learned the finer aspects of color, form, contrast and scale. Abstract art is far harder to execute successfully than people imagine.

I'm often reminded about the group of house painters that claimed they could "do" a Picasso because they "painted". Think abstract's easy? Let's see some that you've done. If anyone here thinks that they could "do" a painting that would be equal to Pollock, put it up. Try doing a search of Pollocks work and take a look at other forms of abstract expressionism before you condemn the man's work as crap. I bet almost everyone could find something they like in abstract expressionism given an open mind and a willingness to overcome their prejudices.

I actually wonder how many here actually knew about this very famous and influencial artist before they heard of him on this thread.


Offline CaptStumpy

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2006, 01:25:23 am »
Okay, I'll give you a nod, Stump.

Your impassioned defense of abstract art does ring true.  However, there are too many artists who have not truly mastered these nuances and tonalities in the interplay among color, texture, form, etc.

Further, there are those, whether they have or not mastered to any degree these finer skills of fine art, presume then to issue sociopolitical messages, resulting in something sort of like a Sharon Stone press conference, that is to say, something rambling, incoherent, puerile, and often offensive, across a broad spectrum of people.

Don't like Frank Frazetta?  What wrong with high school geek pin ups?  What, you think we put up Einstein posters?  That's for wannabes.

Given that you are immersed in the world of art with a definite opinion on things, what do you think of Alphonse Mucha?
Gee thanks for the "nod"  :D

I like Mucha's work. His work highly influenced illustrative fantasy art, but his original work had a huge influence on illustrative art in general. His talent is obvious. His work helped define the genre of Art Nouveau which is primarily illustrative in nature.

I guess what I'm trying to say is art is wide ranging and diverse. I appreciate all art, but I also appreciate art that pushes the limit and boundries of what's regarded art. Contemporaries hated Picasso, Monet, Mozart, Van Gogh. There is such a thing as crap art, but Pollock? We used to joke in art school that we drank too much and pulled a Pollock but it was a joke. This guy pushed some serious bounds. He's perhaps not my favorite abstract artist but as an artist that has piddled in abstract, I'd hardly call him crap. I'd hang one of those in my living room without a moments thought.

Frazetta is a book illustrator. He's a fine illustrator. Fine art? I'd say no.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein

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Offline Dracho

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2006, 07:44:26 am »
Pollock and Picasso don't give modern art a bad name, it is the hacks who have little artistic talent and hide in the genre, smugly, who make it such an irritable art form.

They are like rock singers who can't carry a tune, so they just crank the amps higher and scream.

I also loathe "protest" art.  If you don't like something, get a sign and march.  Don't throw piss on a crucifix, because that isn't art, it's just a juvenile fit gesture.
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Offline Fedman NCC-3758

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2006, 12:28:51 pm »
I call it.... "Fed On A Stick".


Regards,
Fed the artiest
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Offline E_Look

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2006, 04:52:30 pm »
Gee thanks for the "nod"  :D

I like Mucha's work. His work highly influenced illustrative fantasy art, but his original work had a huge influence on illustrative art in general. His talent is obvious. His work helped define the genre of Art Nouveau which is primarily illustrative in nature.

I guess what I'm trying to say is art is wide ranging and diverse. I appreciate all art, but I also appreciate art that pushes the limit and boundries of what's regarded art. Contemporaries hated Picasso, Monet, Mozart, Van Gogh. There is such a thing as crap art, but Pollock? We used to joke in art school that we drank too much and pulled a Pollock but it was a joke. This guy pushed some serious bounds. He's perhaps not my favorite abstract artist but as an artist that has piddled in abstract, I'd hardly call him crap. I'd hang one of those in my living room without a moments thought.

Frazetta is a book illustrator. He's a fine illustrator. Fine art? I'd say no.

Okay, then Mucha shouldn't really be considered fine art either (I don't), even if I really love his style.  In fact, I'd say that as illustrators, Mucha is way, way ahead of Frazetta... oh, and I was really kidding about Frazetta; I always thought his stuff was "okay", but not all that impressive (I mean check out the rather incorrect anatomies of his axe and mace wielding slabs of beef; even DC and Marvel superhero pencillers was more proportional.)

And in the end, only what endures is called classic(al); yeah, this is a truism, but it must first be true!

People are sooo fickle that I suppose a lot of people, across different spans of time, must appreciate it in order for it to be considered "good art".  Let's see how Neal Adams/Dick Giordano or even Jack Kirby hold up after a couple of centuries.

*EDIT*
Where are my manners?  Stump, +1 for good, well thought out posts.  Artists who play SFC!  Cool!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2006, 05:07:03 pm by E_Look NCC-9091 »

Offline CaptStumpy

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2006, 05:17:37 pm »
I call it.... "Fed On A Stick".


Regards,
Fed the artiest

That you think a digital scribble that does not contain a single aspect of art or design is representative of "art" shows how little you understand it.

This is an excellent example of someone trying to demonstrate how Pollock is "crap" while showing exactly why it isn't "crap". Pollocks work shows a deep understanding of materials, color theory, contrast, scale and perspective. His work invokes feeling and serves as an expression of the artist.

You think it's "easy". It is not.

What's funny is I actually think that would be an interesting piece were it constructed in neon. It would take a great deal of work and talent to execute and would be nice as a large piece in an 8 to 10 foot range. At that point it would be "art". Right now it's a digital doodle.
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Offline KBF MalaK

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2006, 05:42:43 pm »
I call it.... "Fed On A Stick".


Regards,
Fed the artiest

Well.... I like it.
;)
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2006, 06:03:45 pm »
I call it.... "Fed On A Stick".


Regards,
Fed the artiest

Well.... I like it.
;)

With that title I have to like it.  But I wouldn't call it art.  ;)
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Offline Fedman NCC-3758

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2006, 12:03:23 am »
I call it.... "Fed On A Stick".


Regards,
Fed the artiest

Well.... I like it.
;)


A man with a keen eye........


We avant-garde trail blazers are so misunderstood and unappreciated.........   ;)
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Offline Dracho

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2006, 09:00:05 am »
What's the Klingonese abbreviation for Robert?  Ka-bob.. ;D
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Offline AlienLXIX

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2006, 05:15:59 am »
I was an artist in HS.  I even took art all 4 years (along with ceramics and 4 years of wood working) but had to give it up because Mom wanted me to get a job or go on to higher edjumakasion.  *Sigh*  So I got a job as a picture framer then got married then had kids.  Time for drawing?  pifft!  Ahh well sometimes I still get bitten by that bug and HAVE to sit down and doodle. 

IMHO Pollack just doesn't do it for me.  Now Monet, he's a Master!  Most of his works give me a sense of calm and quite a few of his works give a feel of movement.  Like if you blinked the picture would be the same yet shifted and when you moved it moved too.  I love that. 

BTW, ALOHA everyone!  Ta DA!  I'm back at least for a little bit . . .  ;D
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Offline Dracho

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2006, 09:05:09 am »
If I were near Philly, I'd really want to catch this exhibit.



PHILADELPHIA (AP) - In a series of self-portraits he painted to document the progressive ravaging of his brain by Alzheimer's disease, William Utermohlen disappears before our eyes - and his own.

The works shortly after his diagnosis convey terror and isolation. Those feelings later give way to defiance and anger. Then shame, confusion and anguish. Then, in the shadowy final pair of portraits, little more than afterimages of a creative and talented spirit whose identity appears to have vanished.

The Philadelphia native, whose richly detailed figurative paintings have been shown and sold at galleries in New York and throughout Europe, undertook a series of self-portraits at the onset of his diagnosis. More than a dozen of the portraits are on display through April 30 at the College of Physicians of Philadelphia, to commemorate Utermohlen's life and the centenary of Dr. Alois Alzheimer's 1906 discovery of the disease.

"It's so important that these be seen," said Dr. Rhonda L. Soricelli, chair of the college's division of medicine and the arts. "It's important for families, for physicians, and for the public, because of the huge amount of fear in our society about Alzheimer's disease."

Utermohlen, 73, was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in 1995. From then until 2000, when he lost his lifelong ability to paint and draw, he rendered himself in oils and pencil and his doctors studied how and when certain abilities were lost.

The huge oil on canvas "Blue Skies" (1994-95) shows the artist sitting at a table, gripping the edge as if to avoid being sucked out of a gaping skylight above his head.

In "Self Portrait I" (1996), Utermohlen stares himself down with both anger and fear, painted in riotous yellow and orange, his chin jutting forward but his eyes trying to hide their panic. A pencil rendering from that year shows his loss of spacial awareness as he tries to draw a human figure for his doctors but can't figure out the proper placement of the arms and legs.

As the months and years progress, the paintings take on a primitive style, though Utermohlen told his doctors that it was not his intention to do so.

In his last attempt with a paintbrush, in what has been titled "Erased Self Portrait" (1999-2000), Utermohlen tried over and over again to recreate his likeness. The small canvas shows the rudimentary shape of a head, and blurs of paint where the features should be.

"It's really a metaphor for what's going on in his brain," Soricelli said. "It's just heartbreaking to look at."

Alzheimer's disease eventually robbed Utermohlen of his ability to communicate and he now lives in a London nursing home. But his desire to chronicle his illness in visual terms has proven valuable to researchers, said Dr. Anjan Chatterjee of the University of Pennsylvania, who studies the effects of brain damage on visual artists' output.

Instead of simplistic left-brain vs. right-brain ideas about where creativity exists, "when people produce art they're really using very different parts of their brain and the different components work together in final product," he said.

In a 2001 study in British medical journal The Lancet, researchers said Utermohlen knew that his renderings were spatially inaccurate but he did not know how to fix them. They were heartened that Alzheimer's did not dampen Utermohlen's desire to create - despite destroying his lifelong artistic skills.

"It tells us something about the creative process ... how people in compromised circumstances can continue to produce art even when other conduits are blocked," Chatterjee said.

Born and raised in South Philadelphia, Utermohlen trained at the city's Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts. His schooling was interrupted by two years in the Army and he graduated from PAFA in 1957. He went to Europe on the GI bill that year before enrolling at the Ruskin School of Art in Oxford, England.

Except for a brief teaching stint in the 1970s at Amherst College, Utermohlen has lived in London since 1962 - the year he married his wife, art historian Patricia Utermohlen. His work has not been shown in his hometown since his school days, when his friends knew him as Willie.

"He developed to such a degree, he just grew and he just got better and better," said Daniel Miller, chair of graduate programs at PAFA who trained alongside Utermohlen. "The tragedy of having that removed from you is so horrendous."
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Offline Jack Morris

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2006, 05:12:05 pm »
Now this is art!  ;D

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Ifilms.  ;D

Offline AlienLXIX

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2006, 04:46:59 am »
If I were near Philly, I'd really want to catch this exhibit.



PHILADELPHIA (AP) - In a series of self-portraits he painted to document the progressive ravaging of his brain by Alzheimer's disease, William Utermohlen disappears before our eyes - and his own.

The works shortly after his diagnosis convey terror and isolation. Those feelings later give way to defiance and anger. Then shame, confusion and anguish. Then, in the shadowy final pair of portraits, little more than afterimages of a creative and talented spirit whose identity appears to have vanished.

The Philadelphia native, whose richly detailed figurative paintings have been shown and sold at galleries in New York and throughout Europe, undertook a series of self-portraits at the onset of his diagnosis. More than a dozen of the portraits are on display through April 30 at the College of Physicians of Philadelphia, to commemorate Utermohlen's life and the centenary of Dr. Alois Alzheimer's 1906 discovery of the disease.

"It's so important that these be seen," said Dr. Rhonda L. Soricelli, chair of the college's division of medicine and the arts. "It's important for families, for physicians, and for the public, because of the huge amount of fear in our society about Alzheimer's disease."

Utermohlen, 73, was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in 1995. From then until 2000, when he lost his lifelong ability to paint and draw, he rendered himself in oils and pencil and his doctors studied how and when certain abilities were lost.

The huge oil on canvas "Blue Skies" (1994-95) shows the artist sitting at a table, gripping the edge as if to avoid being sucked out of a gaping skylight above his head.

In "Self Portrait I" (1996), Utermohlen stares himself down with both anger and fear, painted in riotous yellow and orange, his chin jutting forward but his eyes trying to hide their panic. A pencil rendering from that year shows his loss of spacial awareness as he tries to draw a human figure for his doctors but can't figure out the proper placement of the arms and legs.

As the months and years progress, the paintings take on a primitive style, though Utermohlen told his doctors that it was not his intention to do so.

In his last attempt with a paintbrush, in what has been titled "Erased Self Portrait" (1999-2000), Utermohlen tried over and over again to recreate his likeness. The small canvas shows the rudimentary shape of a head, and blurs of paint where the features should be.

"It's really a metaphor for what's going on in his brain," Soricelli said. "It's just heartbreaking to look at."

Alzheimer's disease eventually robbed Utermohlen of his ability to communicate and he now lives in a London nursing home. But his desire to chronicle his illness in visual terms has proven valuable to researchers, said Dr. Anjan Chatterjee of the University of Pennsylvania, who studies the effects of brain damage on visual artists' output.

Instead of simplistic left-brain vs. right-brain ideas about where creativity exists, "when people produce art they're really using very different parts of their brain and the different components work together in final product," he said.

In a 2001 study in British medical journal The Lancet, researchers said Utermohlen knew that his renderings were spatially inaccurate but he did not know how to fix them. They were heartened that Alzheimer's did not dampen Utermohlen's desire to create - despite destroying his lifelong artistic skills.

"It tells us something about the creative process ... how people in compromised circumstances can continue to produce art even when other conduits are blocked," Chatterjee said.

Born and raised in South Philadelphia, Utermohlen trained at the city's Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts. His schooling was interrupted by two years in the Army and he graduated from PAFA in 1957. He went to Europe on the GI bill that year before enrolling at the Ruskin School of Art in Oxford, England.

Except for a brief teaching stint in the 1970s at Amherst College, Utermohlen has lived in London since 1962 - the year he married his wife, art historian Patricia Utermohlen. His work has not been shown in his hometown since his school days, when his friends knew him as Willie.

"He developed to such a degree, he just grew and he just got better and better," said Daniel Miller, chair of graduate programs at PAFA who trained alongside Utermohlen. "The tragedy of having that removed from you is so horrendous."


Oh wow!  Do they have a virtual museum?  I really would love to see this.  My grandfather went away like that and there is a chance that one day I too will say the long good bye.  How horrifying to be trapped like that KNOWING that you can't do what you once could with ease!  How sad and how brave.
Aloha,
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2006, 04:59:24 am »
I was an artist in HS.  I even took art all 4 years (along with ceramics and 4 years of wood working) but had to give it up because Mom wanted me to get a job or go on to higher edjumakasion.  *Sigh*  So I got a job as a picture framer then got married then had kids.  Time for drawing?  pifft!  Ahh well sometimes I still get bitten by that bug and HAVE to sit down and doodle. 

IMHO Pollack just doesn't do it for me.  Now Monet, he's a Master!  Most of his works give me a sense of calm and quite a few of his works give a feel of movement.  Like if you blinked the picture would be the same yet shifted and when you moved it moved too.  I love that. 

BTW, ALOHA everyone!  Ta DA!  I'm back at least for a little bit . . .  ;D

When I was a kid, 8-10 yars old, I had an Aunt who got me hooked on Ceramics. Fast forward about 15 years. Denise and I had just maried, We where living in AZ , and had our first litter of Puppies. She had bought me one thing I always wanted, A ceramic Chess set.

The pups grew.

They Grew some more.

We went to the store.

When we got back, there was Shredded paper all over the place, and they had consumed over 60% of the pieces, and 3/4 of the board by the time we got back.

Ironicly, My wife is wanting to get started again with Ceramics, and the last remaining pup ; Gruntie Gentle, had a few pups about 4 weeks ago.

Stephen
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Offline Fedman NCC-3758

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2006, 06:50:55 pm »
OK.

Now some genuine art for this thread.



The artist?


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Offline Jack Morris

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Re: They call this crap art?
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2006, 07:50:21 pm »
Sorry, Ralph Nagel rules!