Topic: Serious question for the modelers.... (Read 5009 times)

KBF-Crim · « **on:** February 14, 2006, 04:12:55 am »

Hypothetically speaking...

If you could get your work...even a single model...into an official Star Trek game and get credit for it...

Would you donate one?

Yes or No will suffice...Longer posts are welcome...

wulf111 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 14, 2006, 06:42:25 am »

I think it would be extreamly cool to have a model used in an official TREK game i would gladly donate one

Centurus · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2006, 07:06:43 am »

If ever I had a ship that I created myself, from scratch, and not a kitbash, sure, I'd go for it.

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #3 on:** February 14, 2006, 09:10:07 am »

Sure I'd donate one, as long as everyone involved recieved their proper credits

.

-MP

MajorRacal · « **Reply #4 on:** February 14, 2006, 11:11:01 am »

Most certainly.

Everything I've done has already been donated to the community for free so potential renumeration would make little difference for havinf something included in an official release.

MajorRacal

Sandman3D · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2006, 11:16:22 am »

Sure, that'd be cool!!

Fedman NCC-3758 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2006, 11:20:45 am »

Three cheers for the modders!!

You guys rock!!

KBF-Crim · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2006, 12:20:21 pm »

Excellent....If I had any modeling skills...I'd feel the same way...

As some of you may have heard....Quicksilver is doing StarTrek Tactical assault for the nintendo hand held...

They have roughly 7 months left of dev time...

They have hinted at doing a PC title in the future...

I'd very much like to see that title be SFC4: Galaxies at War

Steve Cole is receptive to another licensing deal...if they would approach him...

My goal right now is to illustrate that such a product would be profitable...

One aspect of what I have proposed is to make it a duel ruleset title....one set canon(simular to SFC3)...one set SFB based (like SFC1,2, an OP)

Another aspect is to free up dev time and money by using fan donated content...

I was pretty sure that many fans would feel as I do...that so long as proper credit was given and the game was worthy...they would donate a small amount of work to be in an official title...

I'll post the link to the thread that I'm hoping the quicksilver devs will see...

http://startrekforum.stgu.com/showthread.php?t=8243

OlBuzzard · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2006, 01:40:06 pm »

sb777 / USS Mako / USS Titan (SBA team version)/ USS Alabama

maybe ...

I'll let you decide

As long as the sleeping giant that was discussed in a previous thread did not stick his ugly head up.

Note: the final version of the USS Mako (still wip)/ USS Titan and Alabama have not been released for public use as yet.

Dizzy · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2006, 02:23:24 pm »

i WOULD DONATE A BUST OF MY LIKENESS TO BE USED IN ANY SFC GAME. oops caps.

Centurus · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2006, 05:07:50 pm »

Quote from: KBF-Crim on February 14, 2006, 12:20:21 pm

Excellent....If I had any modeling skills...I'd feel the same way...

As some of you may have heard....Quicksilver is doing StarTrek Tactical assault for the nintendo hand held...

They have roughly 7 months left of dev time...

They have hinted at doing a PC title in the future...

I'd very much like to see that title be SFC4: Galaxies at War

Steve Cole is receptive to another licensing deal...if they would approach him...

My goal right now is to illustrate that such a product would be profitable...

One aspect of what I have proposed is to make it a duel ruleset title....one set canon(simular to SFC3)...one set SFB based (like SFC1,2, an OP)

Another aspect is to free up dev time and money by using fan donated content...

I was pretty sure that many fans would feel as I do...that so long as proper credit was given and the game was worthy...they would donate a small amount of work to be in an official title...

I'll post the link to the thread that I'm hoping the quicksilver devs will see...

http://startrekforum.stgu.com/showthread.php?t=8243

That's actually a very good effort Crim. I seriously hope that an SFC4 is made, and to have a dual ruleset for both the D2 and D3 communties would help to greatly reunity the SFC community. I wonder if they'll have 3D flight while still retaining a dynaverse type online play, and the abilities to refit your ships as you like and also be easily moddable.

KBF-Crim · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15, 2006, 03:39:34 am »

Well...all we can do is wave cash at them...if they choose to ignore it...their loss....we still have what we have now...

Red_Green · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2006, 11:13:07 am »

Hmm I don't know. My self, I think I would want some kind of compensation monetary wise, that is if I was an elite modeler, which I am not. I mean if the game developer was making money off of models that were free. It would set a presedent, it might have the effect of lowering what professional modelers might make on their future projects.

You would think that a game developer would want the highest quality models made with the least amount of polies. That should be worth some kind of compensation, just like any other skill in society.

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2006, 11:48:08 am »

Quote from: red_green on February 15, 2006, 11:13:07 am

Hmm I don't know. My self, I think I would want some kind of compensation monetary wise, that is if I was an elite modeler, which I am not. I mean if the game developer was making money off of models that were free. It would set a presedent, it might have the effect of lowering what professional modelers might make on their future projects.

You would think that a game developer would want the highest quality models made with the least amount of polies. That should be worth some kind of compensation, just like any other skill in society.

I'm not sure about that train of thought I mean someone is making money now off of the the SFC, Armada and BC games we all so diligently model for. I see no difference, I mean if our contributions to a new game get us the game we've always wanted I think a few ships are a worthy investment toward achieving that goal.

intermech · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2006, 12:50:35 pm »

I would donate any of my Trek models, I am not making money off of them now, I might as well get my name out there, let the model work for me a little bit if not monetarily, then in notariety.

KBF-Crim · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2006, 01:15:13 pm »

Quote from: ModelsPlease on February 15, 2006, 11:48:08 am

Quote from: red_green on February 15, 2006, 11:13:07 am
Hmm I don't know. My self, I think I would want some kind of compensation monetary wise, that is if I was an elite modeler, which I am not. I mean if the game developer was making money off of models that were free. It would set a presedent, it might have the effect of lowering what professional modelers might make on their future projects.

You would think that a game developer would want the highest quality models made with the least amount of polies. That should be worth some kind of compensation, just like any other skill in society.

I'm not sure about that train of thought I mean someone is making money now off of the the SFC, Armada and BC games we all so diligently model for. I see no difference, I mean if our contributions to a new game get us the game we've always wanted I think a few ships are a worthy investment toward achieving that goal.

I was thinking that a couple models included in an official title would look real good on a resume...

Bottom line....and I really dont mean to offend anyone...

Read the SFC EULA...anything created for use in SFC is allready trek property....and could be used without your permission, credit or compensation....

I'm not saying they WOULD do that....only pointing out that the COULD legally do it if they so wished...

Part of the selling point to Bethesda Red is helping to lower Dev costs through donation of some or most content...

(besides...the models would LOOK better TOO!)

None of this is concrete...this is only a proposal....and no one is asking or demanding that anyone donate anything as of yet...I was only asking if you would..or would not...

As far as I know....including a fan base in development of an officially licensed game title is practically unheard of...

OlBuzzard · « **Reply #16 on:** February 15, 2006, 02:05:41 pm »

Quote

Read the SFC EULA...anything created for use in SFC is allready trek property....and could be used without your permission, credit or compensation....

yup ... hence my response considering that two of the models we listed have not been release as yet ( and one in particular may very not be as yet )

Quote

again .... correct .. and they would have every right to.

Quote

As far as I know....including a fan base in development of an officially licensed game title is practically unheard of...

again ... very good point...

Quote

None of this is concrete...this is only a proposal....and no one is asking or demanding that anyone donate anything as of yet...I was only asking if you would..or would not...

depends ... upon the nomenclature of the game. If we are looking at another SFB only based game ... I dunno .. I would have to really think about it.

You have been straight forward about all of this. Thanks ... I appreciate that.

IF we made a contribution it would be exactly that ... a contribution ... not for pay.

(Heck my stuff is a far cry from either great ... or popular any ways ... )

But .. as far as the request that you have made. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Red_Green · « **Reply #17 on:** February 15, 2006, 03:12:53 pm »

Quote

Read the SFC EULA...anything created for use in SFC is allready trek property....and could be used without your permission, credit or compensation....

Yea will if you already knew that then why did you ask the question. It seems to me you asked the question expecting a specific answer. Then if anyone gave an answer you did not desire ,then the forum starts with the bashing in hopes of cowing the person with the undesired opinion into submission. This is the part I always disliked about Trek. There does not seem to be any allowance to express an opinion without risking outlash.

I also thought you were talking hypothetically about creating new models specifically for a new game. Now it sounds like you mean models that already have been created and are in SFC already. See because if were talking about a model not yet created but that is to be designed for a new game. Then the above statement would not apply. Which begs my point about if you knew that models in SFC are no longer the property of the modeler why did you even bring this up?

Their must be more to that statement then anything created for SFC belongs to SFC. Because SFC would not have rights to a Star Wars ship or a ship from Andromeda or StarGate. I'll say this, I am ignorant about what rights a modeler has. Does paramount then also have a right to use a model in a film that was made for SFC because SFC is a Star Trek Licensed product? If so could they then license a model to be manufatured as a plastic Star Trek model without compensation or credit to the original designer?

Could whatever company that used the model in game be allowed to kitbash that model into 10 different varienta and claim that they designed them as thier own new designs? If a new company got the license for SFC and also made other Sci-Fi games, could they use a player made model in a non SFC game without credit or compensation?

Red_Green · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2006, 04:41:09 pm »

Quote from: ModelsPlease on February 15, 2006, 11:48:08 am

Quote from: red_green on February 15, 2006, 11:13:07 am
Hmm I don't know. My self, I think I would want some kind of compensation monetary wise, that is if I was an elite modeler, which I am not. I mean if the game developer was making money off of models that were free. It would set a presedent, it might have the effect of lowering what professional modelers might make on their future projects.

You would think that a game developer would want the highest quality models made with the least amount of polies. That should be worth some kind of compensation, just like any other skill in society.

I'm not sure about that train of thought I mean someone is making money now off of the the SFC, Armada and BC games we all so diligently model for. I see no difference, I mean if our contributions to a new game get us the game we've always wanted I think a few ships are a worthy investment toward achieving that goal.

By a game Wev'e always wanted? What kind of game is that? You mean SFB based or TNG based. I have not been following all the latest threads. My guess is as soon as a new SFC game were to be released, two minutes later people would be modding that game to make the game the way they want it? Added ships left out, new missions etc.....
Yes game companies are making money off of games people mod for. But the Game companies always hired someone to make the original models. The game came first and then the mod. This would be like the mod coming before the game. In the end the decision is individual, there should never be a blanket decision where a game company can use whose ever model it wants for whatever purpose without first contacting the creator of each model. In fact I think it would have been better just to cantact the modelers, who made the models you want to use privately. Then no one is the wiser and if someone wants their models used but gets left out, there is less chance of them feeling snubbed. Who gets to decide if your using a Soverign for example, which one. I think it has the potential for becoming like 100 seperate model contests.

Red_Green · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2006, 06:49:43 pm »

Sorry bout 3 posts in a row but I have been giving this a lot of thought. If your making a game that is available for D/L for no charge, then this is not an issue. But if people are shelling out say $40 bucks for this game, it would need to be uniform in its models. What I mean for the sake of quality, you would want all the models formated the same. Like how in past games where all the models might be mapped to 3 maps all sized 256. You would want uniformity in mapping of textures thoughout this game. Models released by artists in the forums range from being mapped to 1 bitmap to being mapped to 50 bitmaps. Using all various sizes, different pieces in break models. Some decision would need to be made as to what the staderd size and number of maps used would be. This is just one thing I thought of but there could be more to it that I am unaware of. What would the limit on poligons be. Is it the same for all classes of ships or would it vary? Would a battleship be allowed more poligons? Do you want to keep a races ships uniform? I mean in SFC2 all the Lyrans have a similar design theme that carries thorugh from the ff,dd, cl, ca in up to the DN. WOuld you want to keep that by say using the Lyrans made by one modeler or do you mix it up and take a different design from a different modler for each different class for the Lyrans with each ship textured differect than the last one.

When this project gets further along, this would have to be sorted out. Have the number of races been determined?

Tus-XC · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2006, 06:59:42 pm »

I tihnk what crim is trying to say w/ that post about model rights for SFC is that they 'could' do that if they wanted to. However that would be unlikely, and we all know it. This SFC community made one game fail by being split before, enraging it by taking models of those in the community would be a rather stupid move, and highly unlikely. What He is suggesting, at least what i think, is putting our cards on the table to entice this company into making the game we want. There is a saying somewhere that you have to give up little in order to achive the final result you want. In this case Crim is suggesting we offer our support on the model side, giving a little of our selves in order to achive a final result we, as a whole, are looking for. He is not suggesting that they come take the models we put our hearts and souls into, no that would unethical by most standards.

In the end its not about standards or quality, its about placing an offer on the table in order to show our support for such a game. The logistics of it can be solved by the company, who if they accepted would probably put forth standards, poly count ranges, texture sizes/#s etc. all we have to do is be willing to support it.

I for one would do this. I'm not a fast modeler/texturer, but i would donate my time to such a cause.

pepperman · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2006, 07:07:11 pm »

While I am by no means an elite modeler and I have only made a few models from scratch (all Romulans) I personally would consider it a honor if one was chosen for use. So the short answer is yes.

Red_Green · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2006, 07:09:33 pm »

Tus, what you say makes sense to me. I would be supportive of a community effort to help bring this about. I certainly would be willing to allow use of a model or two of mine if a use could be found for it. If this comes to fruition and guidelines are established, I know I could redo some of my earlier stuff using less poligons if necessary.

KBF-Crim · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2006, 03:04:37 am »

Red...I'm not baiting anyone in any way...

No one is going to flame ANY modeler for not wanting to contribute anything....not as long as I'm around...

The entire proposal is completely voluntary...

The whole Idea is quite frankly a very long shot....

They might even shoot the whole thing down out of hand...

I simply had the feeling that others would feel the same way I did...( I have 3DSmax...but as of yet..no talent for modeling)

What I do have a talent for....is the "gift of gab"....I'm trying to at least show them various ways they could save money, be innovative, break new ground, and gain noteriety amongst the gaming communities in general...

I want the topic to come up around their office....I want to put the bug into their minds....when they discuss another title...or PC product in meetings...I want someone to mention SFC4...and in SFC4 I have proposed a dual ruleset (canon/SFB) product to appeal to MORE gamers with one product...

If they arent even thinking about it...it will never happen...it's that simple...

This is VERY "pie in the sky"...and it might never happen at all....

But it wont be for a lack of trying on our part...

Like I said...if Bethesda chooses to ignore all the positives of doing another SFC game....and the positives on including the community in development....then it will be their loss.....at least we tried...

So far we got a "maybe"...and that is MUCH better than a "no way"....

manitoba1073 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2006, 03:40:50 am »

i am all for it ive had a few things used here and there, love to have an official use of one of mine

OlBuzzard · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2006, 08:21:17 am »

Quote from: KBF-Crim on February 16, 2006, 03:04:37 am

Red...I'm not baiting anyone in any way...

This is VERY "pie in the sky"...and it might never happen at all....

But it wont be for a lack of trying on our part...

this is very true .. but also keep in mind this old saying that I heard a looooong time ago. It has stuck with me ever since

"Aim at nothing and you will hit it every time."

--------

It's been well over a year ago ... perhaps even 2. I began to post ideas and sketches here. It had been over 30 years since I had put pencil on paper to design a star ship. ( And frankly it showed ). It took a little practice .. but we got back into the swing of it ( the way we use to do things by hand in the old days ). SB777 is an example of the type of sketches we now turn out. Then it was time to take a bigger step. Antivyrus provided me the web site to down load a legitimate free 3-D program to start building meshes. They are still need to be optimized ... and floaters removed ( he has a more sopisticated program to do that with) ... but we have finally entered into a new and exciting phase for making models. And in spite of some recent posts ... I still plan on continuing this type of work.

Funny ... I was told there was no way I would be able to learn this sort of thing .... it was waaay over my head.

I shared this illustration to remind you of only one thing .... ya never know what ya can do 'til ya try. Aim high bud ! Aim for something fresh and new ... as much as possible with in what ever legal possibilities are.

My only word of caution from a development stand point is to steer clear of a SFB based game. OP is there. It is unlikely that an SFB game will provide the audience you need to make it a success.

Yeah .. I know ... I can expect to get my but flamed ... and Karma driven into the ground (again) .. and essentially told that I'm and idiot ... etc ....

But that's ok.

Yes... I would like very much to see another ST game. And there are some elements of the old SFC series that IF used correctly might make it fun to play. But if the current reflections of the SFB era, style of play ... and other formats are followed ... I'm sorry ... but it will not be the success that some perceive it to be.

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #26 on:** February 16, 2006, 11:50:21 am »

I agree Buzz, I personally want a Star Trek game with massive amonunts of alien slots for ALL the races , I want ALL the weapons, I want enough fighter slots to utilize ALL the shuttle/fighters/runabouts/captains yachts. I want more episode based missions, ENT through TNG , DS9 etc. I want enough ship slots to have a massive fleet for ALL races. I want to after all that be able to customize the crap outta the game. I want ships to have to worry about collisions with other ships. I want true landing parties and planetary invasions. I want it all ( SIGH ) I can dream.

OlBuzzard · « **Reply #27 on:** February 16, 2006, 12:23:52 pm »

Quote from: ModelsPlease on February 16, 2006, 11:50:21 am

I agree Buzz, I personally want a Star Trek game with massive amonunts of alien slots for ALL the races , I want ALL the weapons, I want enough fighter slots to utilize ALL the shuttle/fighters/runabouts/captains yachts. I want more episode based missions, ENT through TNG , DS9 etc. I want enough ship slots to have a massive fleet for ALL races. I want to after all that be able to customize the crap outta the game. I want ships to have to worry about collisions with other ships. I want true landing parties and planetary invasions. I want it all ( SIGH ) I can dream.

Like i said ... if ya aim at nothing ... you WILL hit it everytime.

IMHO .. dreams like warp drive ... and the possibilities of maneuvering through space at such speeds ...

well ... at one time we dreamed about landing on the moon too !

KBF-Crim · « **Reply #28 on:** February 16, 2006, 01:10:29 pm »

Dual rulesets Buzz....

One SFB based....one canon based...simply allow the server admin or single player to choose which at start up...

Both in one product...to appeal to more people and boost potential sales...

That's the idea anyways....

Like I said...it may go no where....but at least we tried...

Red_Green · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2006, 11:10:32 pm »

An all eras game would be awesome.

If it doesn't get done by a game company. Is there a way this could be put together as an all non-profit game by fans? I think a fan based game would not be able to use any Official Star Trek ships or logos, but perhaps we could create a Sci-Fi game with made up races. There would seem to be plenty of modelers. I imagine programming is more time intensive. As long as were dreaming, anyway a project like programming a game could be used as a school project by a team of programmers? I think you would have no problem getting game testers for play balancing. Also lots of texturers, both 2D and 3D in the forums.

This would be a huge project but maybe it can be started out with just 2 races in game. Once it got started it might snowball if it got enough support. The game system couldn't be SFC based but would have to be all original as well. I have some things in mind but I know nothing about programming. I think a game created completely by the SCI-FI community would be kinda cool even with only 2 race slots.

Probably too much development involved. Because we wouldn't be able to make ships in .mod format. A new format for saving models would have to be created, unless we can pool all our money and buy up the rights to SFC..........sigh

intermech · « **Reply #30 on:** February 18, 2006, 01:57:47 pm »

I think a non-trek game would be great! I love that Idea. I don't think you would have a hard time finding models for more than two races. There are alot out there.

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Topic: Serious question for the modelers.... (Read 5009 times)