Topic: SFC4: Galaxies at War....crap or get off the pot...

[KBF-Crim]

Profit or no profit...use of another's Intellectual property to create an unlicensed game is a complete no no around here....I dont see a change in policy just because you'd be the one doing it...

I'm sure Frey isnt about to risk our entire community getting shut down just to get a questionable, unlicensed game, done in maybe 5 years, that no one will be able to legally host, or be able to legally download...

Paramount shut down an entire community before...for doing the same exact thing...

Not trying to yank yer chain....just pointing out the completely obvious...

I suggested no such thing. Note I said ADB approval, if we didnt get that then it would not be an option. I'm a little insulted that you think I'm that simple. 

I dont think you are simple...in fact you are very complex..like most humans...

But the solution you propose while simplistic on its face...is fraught with complexities...

I understand you said ADB approved...but as we allready know from many conversations with Both Steve and Harry...ADB is forbiden from doing computer games on their own...they CANT give their approval for what you want to do...

The instant you add trek to it(which you have every intention of doing or else it simply wouldnt BE SFC)...you need a license from Viacom/CBS/Paramount or whom ever owns Trek...and those rights are allready exclusive to bethesda...

It doesnt matter if the product produces revenue or not...and Bestheda isnt going to sit quietly by while we use intellectual property that they most likey paid dearly for...

I understand your desire to construct the game as you have envisioned...

I also understand that Paramount/CBS/Viacom has a whole legal division with nothing to do but protect their Intellectual Property...I'm quite certain that Bethesda's contract ensures that P/C/V wont allow anyone else to use Trel in any type of venture that would endanger revenues to bethesda....

A free startrek game would most definately cut into potential revenues.....and P/C/V could be contractually forced to shut us down...or be in breach of contract...

I'm sorry...but the simplest way to get SFC4 done is to approach those legally entitled to produce the game and get them to see it our way....

[KBF-Crim]

#4) and most important in my view.....since you've announced to all of us and the public at large that your full intent would be to circumvent copywrite law by creation of a clearly derivative product, and the back door use of Paramounts AND steve Coles intellectual property...who in their right mind would join you in such a clearly risky venture?

In Bonk's defense, he did say "ADB approved", so he is not talking about theft.  The rest of your points are likely all true -- if it's not for profit then neither ADB nor the Trek license holder would be interested in giving us permission -- but he wasn't suggesting going around the law.

-S'Cipio

In my own defense..I was quite clear on points 1 and 2...

And I wasnt accusing Bonk of anything...just pointing out the obvious flaws with his plan....and I'm not even a lawyer...

from: Bonk on Yesterday at 07:32:17 AM

Will a pure SFB based SFC sell as well?

Nope...I have no delusions of such...

Again, which is why the product we want, must be not-for-profit, ADB approved,  NON-TREK and developed by us. Then profits will have absolutley no bearing on the quality of gameplay. It is the only acceptable solution.

#1) If it's not for profit....how do you intend to compensate Steve Cole for his endorsment/permission/license?

#2) If it's non trek.....why would he even consider it....(remember anything SFB is considered a derivative product of his original license IIRC..it all exists within the Starfleet universe)

#3) again...if it's not for profit...WHO will do all this work?...and in what kind of time frame?

#4) and most important in my view.....since you've announced to all of us and the public at large that your full intent would be to circumvent copywrite law by creation of a clearly derivative product, and the back door use of Paramounts AND steve Coles intellectual property...who in their right mind would join you in such a clearly risky venture?

Profit or no profit...use of another's Intellectual property to create an unlicensed game is a complete no no around here....I dont see a change in policy just because you'd be the one doing it...

I'm sure Frey isnt about to risk our entire community getting shut down just to get a questionable, unlicensed game, done in maybe 5 years, that no one will be able to legally host, or be able to legally download...

Paramount shut down an entire community before...for doing the same exact thing...

Not trying to yank yer chain....just pointing out the completely obvious... Wink

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There is no getting around the fact that he fully intends to "turn it into" SFC....everyone reading the thread understands that....if it's not "trek" what would even be the point?

[Bonk]

I understand you said ADB approved...but as we allready know from many conversations with Both Steve and Harry...ADB is forbiden from doing computer games on their own...they CANT give their approval for what you want to do...

The instant you add trek to it(which you have every intention of doing or else it simply wouldnt BE SFC)...you need a license from Viacom/CBS/Paramount or whom ever owns Trek...and those rights are allready exclusive to bethesda...

It doesnt matter if the product produces revenue or not...and Bestheda isnt going to sit quietly by while we use intellectual property that they most likey paid dearly for...

I explicitly said, (very aware of the meaning) ADB approved and non-trek. Sigh...

Hypothetically speaking, lets say ADB made a RPG video game based on the Kzinti... (not that they actually would). You're telling me that Paramaount/CBS has a say in that? I think not... Larry Niven does, but the money grubbing hollywoodites can't say a damn thing.

All I'm saying, that the conditions I suggested are the only way we'll get the product we want. (Or by the release of the SFC:OP source).

We are continually modding and improving SFC:OP here as much as we can, but we cannot ask for money for it (nor do we want to), "Its All About The Game". By your definitions we are already guilty of heinous crimes against hollywood and should be shut down and locked up forever.

In any case, it is silly to argue over this, it only serves to create bad feelings when we both really want very nearly the same thing.

I understand your evangilism, but this:

Profit or no profit...use of another's Intellectual property to create an unlicensed game is a complete no no around here....I dont see a change in policy just because you'd be the one doing it...

Is uncalled for. I still did not suggest what you are accusing me of. Please slow down and ensure your reading comprehension is at 100%. I understand your passion, but please refrain from insulting my intelligence repeatedly. It will not help anyone here.

"Not-for-profit, ADB approved and non-trek", does not imply the unauthorised or illegal use of another's intellectual property by any stretch of the imagination.

Please retract your repeated accusations.

[Dizzy]

wtf is the matter with u peeps? Why cant we just keep modding OP till we get it where we want it?

[Bonk]

wtf is the matter with u peeps? Why cant we just keep modding OP till we get it where we want it?

Yes, that is what I have been working on.  (got that PvPHexhealtresetratio implemented... running another MySQL server load test probably this sunday based on votes...)

Edit: but we are limited by not having access to the client source...

[Dizzy]

Why cant we hack the weapons stats and make our own?

[Bonk]

Why cant we hack the weapons stats and make our own?

Have you opened the StarFleetOP.exe in a hex editor or decompiled it to assembly? It would be a very difficult undertaking and not legal to do so anyway.

[Dizzy]

What's the difference between me telling everyone on a server that my BCE is gonna have a 2x shuttle launch rate and having a displacement device work thru the .exe than thru a script? Do I have permission to hack and recompile the shiplist or am I breaking the law there too?

[Bonk]

What's the difference between me telling everyone on a server that my BCE is gonna have a 2x shuttle launch rate and having a displacement device work thru the .exe than thru a script? Do I have permission to hack and recompile the shiplist or am I breaking the law there too?

Oh, I kinda thought you might have meant that, but I was thinking you meant to modify the weapons (add, modify tables etc, which would require hacking the exe or the client source).

As far as I know we're allowed to mod shiplists and script missions to our heart's content!

[Dizzy]

Well, what are sprites?

[Bonk]

Well, what are sprites?

Sprites are the bulk of the 2-D graphics assets of the game contained in the sprites.q3 file. Quicksilver has implicitly given us approval to modify the file by providing information (albeit incomplete) on the file's structure. The executable is another matter however.

From the OP 2.5.5.2 Readme.txt:

--------------
15 Legal Stuff
--------------

Copyright 2001 by Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All Rights Reserved. Portions copyright 2000 Amarillo Design Bureau.  Some elements based upon the board games created by Amarillo Design Bureau.

 Star Trek Starfleet Command(R) :Orion Pirates(TM) Copyright 2001 Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All Rights Reserved.  Registered and Copyright 2000 Paramount Pictures.  All Rights Reserved.  Star Trek is a registered trademark of Paramount Pictures and Starfleet Command and related marks are trademarks of Paramount Pictures.  All Rights Reserved.  Interplay, the Interplay logo, "By Gamers, For Gamers", 14 East and the 14 East logo are trademarks of Interplay Entertainment Corp.  Taldren and the Taldren logo are trademarks of Taldren, Inc.  Exclusively licensed and distributed by Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All other trademarks and copyrights are the property of their respective owners.

SOFTWARE USE LIMITATIONS AND LIMITED LICENSE

General Product License.  This copy of  Star Trek Starfleet Command(R) :Orion Pirates(TM) (the "Software") is intended solely for your personal non-commercial home entertainment use.  You may not decompile, reverse engineer, or disassemble the Software, except as permitted by law.  Interplay Entertainment Corp. and its licensors retain all right, title and interest in the Software including all intellectual property rights embodied therein and derivatives thereof.  The Software, including, without limitation, all code, data structures, characters, images, sounds, text, screens, game play, derivative works and all other  elements of the Software may not be copied, resold, rented, leased, distributed (electronically or otherwise), used on a pay-per-play, coin-op or other for-charge basis, or for any commercial purpose.  Any permissions granted herein are provided on a temporary basis and can be withdrawn by Interplay Entertainment Corp. at any time.  All rights not expressly granted are reserved.

Modem and Network Play.  If the Software contains modem or network play, you may play the Software via modem transmission with another person or persons directly without transmission through a third party service or indirectly through a third party service only if such service is an authorized licensee of Interplay.  For the purpose of this license, a "third party service" refers to any third party service which provides a connection between two or more users of the Software, manages, organizes, or facilitates game play, translates protocols, or otherwise provides a service which commercially exploits the Software, but does not include a third party service which merely provides a telephonic connection (and nothing more) for modem or network play.  Authorized licensee services are listed on the Interplay Entertainment Corp. World Wide Web Site located at http://www.interplay.com.  This limited right to transmit the Software expressly excludes any transmission of the Software of any data streams thereof on a commercial basis, including, without limitation, transmitting the Software by way of a commercial service (excepting those specific commercial services licensed by Interplay) which translates the protocols or manages or organizes game play sessions.

Acceptance of License Terms.  By acquiring and retaining this Software, you assent to the terms and restrictions of this limited license.  If you do not accept the terms of this limited license, you must return the Software together with all packaging, manuals and other material contained therein to the store where you acquired the Software for a full refund.

And in contrast, the License.rtf from SFC3... (note the complete absence of any mention of ADB and the claim to ALL IP rights... I wonder what Mr. Cole has to say about that! ):

SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT

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LIMITED USE LICENSE: Subject to the conditions described below, Activision grants you the non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to install and use one copy of the Program solely and exclusively for your personal use. All rights not specifically granted under this Agreement are reserved by Activision and, as applicable, Activision’s licensors. The Program is licensed, not sold, for your use. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Program and should not be construed as a sale of any rights in the Program. All rights not specifically granted under this Agreement are reserved by Activision and, as applicable, its licensors.

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Granted, they do mention "licensors".



And from the OP serverkit source access that I have handled responsibly:

//   <Legal>   Copyright (c)  by Taldren, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
//   This document contains CONFIDENTIAL, PROPRIETARY, TRADE SECRET information
//   belonging to Taldren, Inc. and may not be reproduced, in whole
//   or in part, without prior written permission from Taldren, Inc.

You'd think I was some kind of irresponsible malicious twit the way you guys are grilling me... sheesh!

[S31-Riptide]

OMG you must be the first person in history to read the license agreements on, not 1 but 2 different games Bonk!!! DOH!

As to all the talk about Non-Profit... non-profit does not = free!  it just means that the company does not make more money then it takes to operate... hence you can pay your staff and pay for production but you can't make a buck!   

[Dizzy]

I still say we hack it. We dont need to tell anyone.... muhahahahaha

[KBF-Crim]

I understand you said ADB approved...but as we allready know from many conversations with Both Steve and Harry...ADB is forbiden from doing computer games on their own...they CANT give their approval for what you want to do...

The instant you add trek to it(which you have every intention of doing or else it simply wouldnt BE SFC)...you need a license from Viacom/CBS/Paramount or whom ever owns Trek...and those rights are allready exclusive to bethesda...

It doesnt matter if the product produces revenue or not...and Bestheda isnt going to sit quietly by while we use intellectual property that they most likey paid dearly for...

I explicitly said, (very aware of the meaning) ADB approved and non-trek. Sigh...

Hypothetically speaking, lets say ADB made a RPG video game based on the Kzinti... (not that they actually would). You're telling me that Paramaount/CBS has a say in that? I think not... Larry Niven does, but the money grubbing hollywoodites can't say a damn thing.

All I'm saying, that the conditions I suggested are the only way we'll get the product we want. (Or by the release of the SFC:OP source).

We are continually modding and improving SFC:OP here as much as we can, but we cannot ask for money for it (nor do we want to), "Its All About The Game". By your definitions we are already guilty of heinous crimes against hollywood and should be shut down and locked up forever.

In any case, it is silly to argue over this, it only serves to create bad feelings when we both really want very nearly the same thing.

I understand your evangilism, but this:

Profit or no profit...use of another's Intellectual property to create an unlicensed game is a complete no no around here....I dont see a change in policy just because you'd be the one doing it...

Is uncalled for. I still did not suggest what you are accusing me of. Please slow down and ensure your reading comprehension is at 100%. I understand your passion, but please refrain from insulting my intelligence repeatedly. It will not help anyone here.

"Not-for-profit, ADB approved and non-trek", does not imply the unauthorised or illegal use of another's intellectual property by any stretch of the imagination.

Please retract your repeated accusations.

Bonk...this is a discussion...not an inquisition...

I have said twice now that I have made no accusations....and I'll say it third time...

Again..what you clearly said..:

Again, which is why the product we want,

meaning SFC4 yes? ...because we want feds and klinks rommies and gorny toads and all the rest

 must be not-for-profit,

doesnt matter if it's for profit or not

 ADB approved,  NON-TREK and developed by us.

ADB CANT approve any game  Steve Cole has stated this several times ...his words...not mine...they barely got away with doing SFB online...and only because of they way it is set up

 Then profits will have absolutley no bearing on the quality of gameplay. It is the only acceptable solution.

again....for it to be SFC...it must have federation , klingon , romulan ,gorn , at least ...and as soon as you add that....yes...like it or not...you will be violating Paramounts copywrite....whether they choose to excersize those rights is another matter

--------------------------------------------------------------

Look...I said I understand your desire to do it that way...

but after thousands of hours of reading relevent discussions concerning all parties in the matter...I also understand why we CANT do it your way...

So YES....technically speaking....ANY time we modify the game in any way...we have created a "derivative product"....even something as simple as getting the scource code and fixing one bug...or fixing the server kit....

All this came up during the relevent dicussions on release of source code....

Just because Paramount is being gracious enough not to hammer us for it.....doesnt mean they will allow us to do another game with the clear intent to mod Feds and klinks back into it...

I cant retract something I didnt say....and I wont retract what is the plain truth...

I didnt accuss you of doing anything....I'm saying that we CANT do it that way for various listed reasons....all of which are valid...

I have to go to work....but I'll be home at 3am eastern and I'll take the time to pluck the relevent posts and put them here for you...

PS...it isnt evangelism....I'm not evangelical...

I'm a Taldrenite.....this is Taldrenism...

[Bonk]

Against my better judgement, I'll continue this...

ADB CANT approve any game  Steve Cole has stated this several times ...his words...not mine...they barely got away with doing SFB online...and only because of they way it is set up

Explain this to me then:

Copyright 2001 by Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All Rights Reserved. Portions copyright 2000 Amarillo Design Bureau.  Some elements based upon the board games created by Amarillo Design Bureau.

It does not have to be trek, what I said is still perfectly valid. I get the feeling you're trying to make me look bad here.

There is absolutly no reason that ADB cannot approve an SFB based, non-trek game. Or are you telling me that ADB does not own SFB, but Paramount does?

A game does not have to be trek to be SFB based.

I have half a mind to cut a deal with Mr. Cole just to prove my point. You do not speak for ADB.

I have said twice now that I have made no accusations....and I'll say it third time...

What is this then?:

#4) and most important in my view.....since you've announced to all of us and the public at large that your full intent would be to circumvent copywrite law by creation of a clearly derivative product, and the back door use of Paramounts AND steve Coles intellectual property...who in their right mind would join you in such a clearly risky venture?

Profit or no profit...use of another's Intellectual property to create an unlicensed game is a complete no no around here....I dont see a change in policy just because you'd be the one doing it...

I'm sure Frey isnt about to risk our entire community getting shut down just to get a questionable, unlicensed game, done in maybe 5 years, that no one will be able to legally host, or be able to legally download...

Again, I ask you to retract these accusations and admit the possibility that you might be wrong.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

There is absolutly no reason that ADB cannot approve an SFB based, non-trek game.

Hmmm......  I've never bought any of the Omega Quadrant modules, or any of the Megallanic Cloud modules.  I know they have some really unique races and weapons out there.  Do they all also use weapons that couldn't exist without Trek?   (Are they still all armed with phasers?)

These regions did not exist when Steve Cole first wrote his treatise on "Why we can't make a computer game even though we know it would sell, unless someting changes at Paramount."

I wonder if ADB could legally market an "Omega Quadrant only" computer game?

Of course, the reason I never bought any of those products was because those races were completely isolated from the Feds, Roms, and Gorn, so I wans't much interested.  So I'm not sure how well the game would sell.

-S'Cipio

[EmeraldEdge]

Here's a thought ADB using all of their tables, etc. and just giving them different looks and names.  All of a sudden it's not Trek, because really the only thing in SFB that is Trek is the names and images.  The damage tables, and every other table under the sun, doesn't really represent anything "paramount canon" because there is no set standard for said canon, as it's always made up so they can pull out a magic photon at the last minute and be done with the problem.  Thus, they could probably do anything they want as long as the images and names have been changed.  Then, of course, after the game is released, modders could do whatever they want with it right?  They could make it into a Battlestar game, or a B5 game, or maybe even a Trek game.  Right?

Now I'm not necessarily advocating this approach, I'd much rather see an official game, but in the absence of that I suppose something like that could suffice.

[KBF-Crim]

Against my better judgement, I'll continue this...

Ok...

ADB CANT approve any game  Steve Cole has stated this several times ...his words...not mine...they barely got away with doing SFB online...and only because of they way it is set up

Explain this to me then:

Copyright 2001 by Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All Rights Reserved. Portions copyright 2000 Amarillo Design Bureau.  Some elements based upon the board games created by Amarillo Design Bureau.

Ok....I'll try.....I may have it bassackards....but here is the ADB published policy:

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STAR FLEET BATTLES     

FAQs
Frequently Asked Questions
   STAR FLEET BATTLES LOOKS A LOT LIKE STAR TREK. IS IT?

    Star Fleet Battles and the other games of the Star Fleet Universe are based on (but have expanded vastly beyond) the original 1966-69 Star Trek television show and use that material under a special contract with Paramount Pictures Corporation. We are not authorized to use Next Generation, Voyager, or Deep Space Nine, and we cannot use names of characters. You'll find Vulcans here, but not one named "Spock". Star Fleet Battles was created in 1975 and first published in 1979. Before the movies, we had already expanded the universe, adding many new races, ships, classes, and concepts. In that regard, Star Fleet Universe and Star Trek Universe diverged from a common origin.

   WHY ISN'T THERE AN SFB COMPUTER GAME? OR AT LEAST PLAY AID SOFTWARE?

    ADB, Inc. has contracted with Interplay to produce STAR FLEET COMMAND, which will have many aspects of Star Fleet Battles. Play-aid software may follow in future pending resolution of some questions between ADB, Inc., and Paramount. Until that happens, NO ONE can do computer software specifically for SFB. You can do your own and use it yourself, but you cannot sell it and you cannot even upload it or give it away for free (since that would cost us sales when we can finally do legal software).

   What new products are in development?

This is explained on our product schedule.
 
   I INVENTED THIS NEW RACE. CAN I SEND IT IN?

    Yes, but you should know a couple of points. New historical races are all but impossible to publish as they cannot be accounted for in the existing history. If you think you know a way around that, send us an email with a brief outline of your idea.
    The new Stellar Shadow product line will produce many new races in the Sargasso Sector products and in the Stellar Shadow Journal line. However, these will not be a part of the real SFB universe but part of alternative dimensions and timelines. (So if you want your race to conquer the Klingons in Y155 and fight the General War against the Feds, go right ahead.) We are no longer requiring people to pay for publishing of Stellar Shadows material.
    Now, if you want to go into business published your own SFB-compatible galaxy, we can offer you a galaxy license. This will involve paying us a chunk of change up front and royalties on your products, but we can offer you use of some or our material (Seltorians, Neo-Tholians, Andromedans) and a spot in Captain's Log. If you have new races for the Omega sector, you need to send them to Bruce Graw at Agents of Gaming. If Bruce rejects your idea you can send it to us and we'll see if we can work something out.

   CAN I PUT STUFF TAKEN FROM THE SFB WEB PAGE ON MY OWN WEB PAGE?

Sorry, but the answer is a polite but firm "no". Much of what we have would require getting permission from Paramount, a slow and expensive process that usually involves paying for the privilege. While some items could be authorized by ADB (which owns everything related to SFB that Paramount doesn't) alone, doing so would simply confuse the players and detract from the official SFB web page. Keeping track of who had been given permission to do what would require more accounting than the rest of running the business does. Sorry, just too difficult. Nothing from this web page can be placed on ANY other web page or BBS, with the exception of certain press releases which are clearly marked. We are considering a plan to provide some material for such use under certain conditions. When we have this concept worked out, we'll let everyone know.

   CAN YOU SEND ME SOME PLAYTEST STUFF?

Yes, but about 90% of the people we send playtest stuff never report on it and we can't afford the time to send stuff out without getting reports in return. If you want to playtest, get stuff from Module P6 or Star Fleet Times or the library here and report on THAT. After you show you can and will do the job, we'll give you all you want. We are aware that we did not adequately stock the playtest library in past but this is changing.

 
   I'VE ALWAYS INTENDED TO WRITE IN, BUT SOMEONE I MET AT A CONVENTION SAID THAT THE PEOPLE AT ADB WERE REALLY RUDE TO THEM. AND I HEARD THAT STEVE COLE DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING BUT PRAISE.

Don't worry about it. We're only rude to people who are rude to us first. And many people regard not accepting their submissions (no matter how ridiculous) as "rude" but we don't. Steve Cole hears praise all the time, and regards it as confirming the sales figures. Criticism is welcome if constructive and civil. By all means, if you don't like the way something is going, say so. If enough people agree with you, we'll go another way, but we wouldn't be going the way we're going if a lot of people hadn't said they wanted us to.

 
   IF I UPLOAD SOMETHING OR PARTICIPATE IN THE MAIL LISTS, DO MY IDEAS BECOME THE PROPERTY OF AMARILLO DESIGN BUREAU?

Yes, under the standard terms published in most SFB products, that is indeed the case. (And yes, this policy is completely legal in all 50 states and under the international copyright conventions.) If you don't want that to happen, don't submit it without first getting a waiver from ADB (which isn't easy to get and is never given for such things as proposed ships, rules, articles, term papers, scenarios, stories, etc.). There is another side to the coin, however. All submissions which are published are credited to the author (to the extent of his original submission) and the author receives compensation such as a free copy of the product for minor things and cash for some larger items at $15 per page. All submissions are subject to review and playtesting which may require changes to some extent.

   WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT MINIATURES?

We have over 100 ships in production for all of the SFB races with more appearing almost every month. During 2004 we released fleet boxes for the Lyrans, Orions, and Andros, and we released ships for the Feds, Gorns, and Hydrans.

   WHAT SFB MATERIAL CAN I POST ON MY OWN WEB SITE?

See our web policy document, but in summary:
1. Your personal gaming experiences or reviews are your business, not ours.
2. You cannot post anything from an official product. If you think that something should be on internet, convince us to put it on the official site. We can authorize you to use some art and images but you have to ask first.
3. Your proposals or new races, ships, etc. can be posted under the Web policy; see it for details.
 
   What happened to the old Prime Directive role playing game?

This was not done by ADB Inc. and did not sell well. We still have copies of these old products in stock but we have launched a new RPG using the GURPS engine.
 
   Will you ever do a D20 based RPG?

Yes! Click here for information on Prime Directive D20.
 
   Is the new Star Fleet Battle Force card game a warmed over version of the old Star Fleet Missions card game?

Not at all! SFBF is a new design based on the popular 'naval war' concept but with many new twists.
 

 
Copyright © 1991,1998-2005 Amarillo Design Bureau, All Rights Reserved    

Updated 3

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Posted by Bonk:

It does not have to be trek, what I said is still perfectly valid.

Not the way I read it...

I get the feeling you're trying to make me look bad here.

I could say something smartarsed....but no Bonk...I'm not...I'm trying to understand how I have it wrong and most likely not saying it right...

There is absolutly no reason that ADB cannot approve an SFB based, non-trek game. Or are you telling me that ADB does not own SFB, but Paramount does?

Again..I refer to the policy....maybe Steve has a different personal opinion...I dont know....From what I've seen posted it all depends on paramount...

A game does not have to be trek to be SFB based.

No.....but if it's not....why would anyone be interested?( I mean specifically this crowd) unless you intend to mod it later...

I have half a mind to cut a deal with Mr. Cole just to prove my point.

Go right ahead....I really hope you could swing one....He's been kind enough to reply to a couple e-mails.....E-mail him...it cant hurt to ask...*shrug*

I'm trying to get Mr Cole with Bethesda , Quicksilver,( or my grandma if it would get us another SFC  ) to cut a deal that will generate him alot of revenue...

Put want we want upfront....include a canon (moddable ruleset)....

Involve the community in the actual Game development (even quite a few modelers have said they would donate content for simple credit...)

And illustrate that such a product for a bigger market (because we will also be part of it) will be profitable to all parties...

I simply want them to all have the same conversation, at the same time, about the same thing...and think it's a good idea...

That's all...

I'm trying to get everyone else to help...

I didnt think it was a secret...

You do not speak for ADB.

No doubt....nor do I intend to...I also dont speak for Bethesda,Quicksilver, Paramount , Dynaverse.net,the modeling, scripting , or prgraming groups....not even SFC players...or especially *rubs head*....my wife...

I can speak for myself just fine...if fact...it often gets me in trouble *rubs head*...

I'm only telling you ...what Steve(ADB), Billfisher(Quicksilver), Harry(Paramount) allready told us all before when the topic of SFC4 got brought up way back on Taldren....

And continued here:

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163343938.0.html

It's not like we havent allready begged, groveled, swore our fist borns, or cried for SFC4.....

It's ten page thread....bring a snack..

I have said twice now that I have made no accusations....and I'll say it third time...

What is this then?:

1) A vain attempt to clearly express my point without being a complete Klingon?

B) Me somehow starting another flame war becuase of my big fat fingers?

R)Me trying to relate what I forsee as possible consequences?

10) Me trying to understand how I have it wrong after really really trying to pay attention.....( I hope I dont retain all this useless trivia crap in my head for nothing)

#4) and most important in my view.....since you've announced to all of us and the public at large that your full intent would be to circumvent copywrite law by creation of a clearly derivative product, and the back door use of Paramounts AND steve Coles intellectual property...who in their right mind would join you in such a clearly risky venture?

Profit or no profit...use of another's Intellectual property to create an unlicensed game is a complete no no around here....I dont see a change in policy just because you'd be the one doing it...

I'm sure Frey isnt about to risk our entire community getting shut down just to get a questionable, unlicensed game, done in maybe 5 years, that no one will be able to legally host, or be able to legally download...

Again, I ask you to retract these accusations and admit the possibility that you might be wrong.

Or what?...I dont get no SFC4?!? *sniff*

OK..SHEESH....I'm sorry if you thought I was accusing you of doing anything other than offereng a possible solution...

I admit I might be wrong....I mean it....I might be wrong...

Also...as  red green Fan...I also admit that:

I'm a man....but I can change.....if I have to...I guess....

I'm really sorry  if you took what I said the wrong way....I'm really  sorry If I releated my concerns the wrong way...

I only question your plan...not your integrity...

I mean no offense....

[Bonk]

OK..SHEESH....I'm sorry if you thought I was accusing you of doing anything other than offereng a possible solution...

I admit I might be wrong....I mean it....I might be wrong...

...

I'm really sorry  if you took what I said the wrong way....I'm really  sorry If I releated my concerns the wrong way...

I only question your plan...not your integrity... Wink

I mean no offense....

Thank you very much, it means a lot. I was just kind of upset that you'd think I would do anything to endanger the future of Dynaverse.Net after all the work I have put into it.

Regarding:

    ADB, Inc. has contracted with Interplay to produce STAR FLEET COMMAND, which will have many aspects of Star Fleet Battles. Play-aid software may follow in future pending resolution of some questions between ADB, Inc., and Paramount. Until that happens, NO ONE can do computer software specifically for SFB. You can do your own and use it yourself, but you cannot sell it and you cannot even upload it or give it away for free (since that would cost us sales when we can finally do legal software).

I have ideas that I believe have not occurred to ADB to circumvent these concerns. I'm quite sure I could come up with an acceptable proposal. But currently I am too busy with the OP serverkit and Dynaverse website to actually put it together. Once we have the OP serverkit stabilised on MySQL and a basic "Omniverse" implemented, I will return to these ideas.

Thanks again and carry on, I approve of your goal quite heartily. (but there is just no way I'll buy another SFC3 type product though, I still feel ripped off..)

[Dizzy]

I could say something smartarsed....but no Bonk...I'm not...I'm trying to understand how I have it wrong and most likely not saying it right...

oNLY THING i COULD RELATE TO THERE, CRIM. oops caps. 

sh*t wouldnt stick to Bonk if he was toilet paper.