Topic: SFC4: Galaxies at War....crap or get off the pot...

[KBF-Crim]

Ok boys and girls.....here's your chance(maybe the last) to make your voices heard on the subject.....

The Quicksilver devs are posting at STGU...they have hinted at a future PC game...

Here is steves word on the subject from his forums...

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 04:46 pm: Edit

It's not for us to contact them. They can contact us if they want. Unless Paramount told them it was ok to talk to us, no point in us talking to them.

Here is the thread:

http://startrekforum.stgu.com/showthread.php?t=8243

I have proposed a duel ruleset product...one ruleset for the trekkies...one for us(SFB)...

Now is the time....there is the place...

Take a moment and share your views on the subject....

I'm going to start working on Harry Lang next....

WE CAN GET THIS DONE IF WE ALL PUSH HARD ENOUGH AND SHOW THEM THERE IS STILL REVENUE TO BE GENERATED BY AN SFB BASED PRODUCT.

GET OFF YER DUFF AND SHOW THEM THE MONEY!

The future is STILL bright....

[KBF-Crim]

Well...just talked to Harry....he has a new job....he is no longer in charge of Trek gaming....

http://startrekforum.stgu.com/showthread.php?t=8043

I'm sorry I missed this with working so much...I would have let you all know soon enough to post a goodbye...

Bummer...

[Bonk]

Let me stew on how to lobby Mr. Fisher, I must figure out how to contain my disappointment in their efforts to make an SFC game for the gameboy style platform, ignoring the obviously superior PC platform and adult audience.

The problem is that SFB/SFC is really for old farts like us, but all the money is in the teen and pre-teen markets.

[Lepton]

Well, I had typed up an encouraging response over there but lost it all when I tried to post it.  I'll try again later.  Basically, I think we can argue that they should merely consider scaling up the current title for the PC.  That will get the ball rolling.  If they are willing to go that far, we can perhaps influence what the game contains.  I'm not hopeful that we can get everything we want, but at least getting them to consider such a thing is a first step.

[Lepton]

Also, to be frank, I think that Trek MMORPG is going to fall flat on its face.  The most popular ones I can think of are all individual combat based, Warcraft, LOTR, Everquest.  They are action-based, whereas Star Wars Galaxies which while it has a good deal of action, the whole professions element I think was a big flop.  This is why that game has undergone so many revisions to become more combat oriented.  People might think it will be cool to be an engineering officer, but I don't think they are going to want to stare at an LCARS display for hours.  Too much like work.  If there is anything we know, it is that people like to blow stuff up.  Don't give them enough of that and they head to the door.

[Bonk]

... but I don't think they are going to want to stare at an LCARS display for hours.  Too much like work.  ...

I'm not so sure, have you seen Eve? More "paperwork" than Fed&Emp and wildly popular...

[FPF-DieHard]

The level of complexity can be pretty high as long as it is automated.

[Age]

  Harry Said the same thing over at STGamers he is now left for good.I don't that you will get this as it isn't in the Hand of Paramount but CBS.That is right CBS owns the right to Star Trek not Paramount.The split within the Viacom network happened when Mr Redstone retired.Vic knew this last June but kept it to himself.The new Lagacy coming out similiar to SFC2 can unify the D2 and D3 communties but the games will look more like SFC3 no drones or scatterpacks.G at W weren't be very marketable to all the ppl who play Star Trek gaming.The ppl now in charege of Star Trek are CBS and we don't know who that person is I do think it is some woman and gave hint of letting Star Trek rest for 10 years on the screen that .

Here is what Harry had to say on Star Trek Gamers

http://www.startrek-gamers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=855&highlight=

 If Lagacy and TA sell well there maybe a Lagacy 2 and TA 2 who knows but not in the SFB version.I believe of you want the type of game best ot contact Interplay but Lagacy has to do with Maddock.I never told anyone on board about Harry leaving except Frey as I sent him a PM on it he wanted it kept quiet.

[FPF-DieHard]

Make it Trek but make it moddable enough that it can be SFB.   Best of both Worlds 

[Lepton]

Isn't Legacy an RTS type game?

[KBF MalaK]

When are they gonna make me a 'simulator' like Klingon Academy, that you can mod, and freely roam a online universe like Dynaverse ?

[KBF-Crim]

Age....forgive me....but shut up...

Your responce means you either didnt read what I posted....or You frankly dont have a clue what I'm talking about...

Edit:

On hindsight...that is rather harsh...

Let me take you by the hand and illustrate why you missed what I said....

I have proposed a DUEL ruleset title....

The company doing tactical assault is QUICKSILVER...

QUICKSILVER was involved in SFC1...the first SFB based SFC game...

Interplay doesnt have the rights to do ANY startrek games...PERIOD...

Steve Cole is willing to talk about another licensing deal....

The fact that Paramount is no longer in charge can be a GOOD THING for this proposal....

Now get on board...or get thrown overboard...

And the rest of you shmoes...get over there and post before Quicksilver does....

Show them there is interest!

Or I swear to Khaless...I will crash these forums!

 

[KBF-Crim]

First reply from quicksilver...

Rantz
ST:Tactical Assault
Creative Director
Quicksilver Software
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 16
   
As Cory noted in another discussion, a sequel to SFC is in Bethesda's hands, and (I would suspect) is largely dependent on the performance of how ST:L and ST:TA (*neither* of which are STB, for obvious reasons) do in the market.

You guys want SFC:4, it's pretty much in the fan's hands. Buy lots of copies of the games when they comes out, write letters to Bethesda, and let them know that you would buy oodles of copies of of SFC:4. Prove to them the numbers warrant it. Because if SFC: 4 is what you want, that is what it takes.

The games that are in dev now are locked as far as design goes, so what they are is what they are. Nothing design-wise is changing at this stage with a release date of September bearing down on us (which for console replication means the game really has to be done in June.)

I can tell you (being that there are a lot of orginal SFC team members at QS) that there is a lot of love for the first SFC game here at QS.

I dont care about the hand held that much...although I may buy a copy as a gift for a family member who has one.....I do care that he didnt shoot me down out of hand...

And basiclly told us what I allready knew...

You want an SFC4.....get off your duff and show them the money!

It is at least now on his mind...and he will talk to others at the office...

Now we need to work on Bethesda....we have roughly 7 months to make our case...

We need to show them why another deal with Steve is a good idea...

If they build it.....we will come...

[EmeraldEdge]

I imagine some folks around here may feel a little burned after the last "Hey, go out and buy as much as you can so you can maybe get the game you actually want at some point down the road" campaign.  I know a lot of the folks I know were.  It didnt' turn out, either.  That said, I think a strong letter campaign and anything else we can muster together would definitely benefit the cause.  We should come up with some general points that folks should include in their letters (not a form, but a guidline of what to include and how, maybe?) and of course contact info for anyone and everyone who might have something to do with the decision making process.   Maybe we could hold a rally outside their offices.  Everyone can show up with signs that say "GIVE US SFC or GIVE US DEATH!".

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I imagine some folks around here may feel a little burned after the last "Hey, go out and buy as much as you can so you can maybe get the game you actually want at some point down the road" campaign.  I know a lot of the folks I know were.  It didnt' turn out, either. 

I know exactly what you mean.  I never bought into that line last time.  This time, however, I'm willing to be a little more hopeful.

Last time, we were dealing with a company that HAD what we wanted, and made a conscious decision to make an SFC game that was a move away from from what we wanted.  Then Eric suggested (in good faith I'm sure) that if we wanted a move back to the the game we used to have, then the best way to show that to Activision was to buy a lot of the game that was a move away.  That never made sense to me.  Since SFC3 wasn't a game that interested me on its own merits I thus gave it a pass.

This strikes me as different.  This is a game NOT called sfc, that a different company associated with sfc1 is making as a new product.  This time perhaps we can show them that there is a market for this sort of thing without shooting ourselves in the foot vis a vis what we want at the same time.

Maybe I'm whistling in the dark, but I'm willing to feel hopeful it can be done.

-S'Cipio

[Dizzy]

WTF r u all talking about? OP still doesnt work right and now you are thinking that if you write a few letters it will make it all work? I think I missed your platform here. What's it called, glass?

[FPF-DieHard]

Hell, I bought 2 copies of SFC3 just to keep this alive.  What's another game?  It might even be fun   

[Lepton]

I don't have alot of money to toss around so I doubt I will buy Legacy and I don't know a hand-held so TA is out as well.  Not to be a party pooper, but why would I buy a game I don't want to make someone make a game I do want?  Perhaps it would have been slightly brighter if someone had asked the Trek community what kind of games they want.  I am not sure that the answer they would have received would correspond to Legacy or TA for that matter.  Star Trek Online?  That one is pretty obvious yes for the Trek fans, but Perpetual is coming a little late to the party on this one if you ask me.

I know QS is in the business of making money.  All companies are, but the call to buy beaucoup Bestheda titles seems a tad disingenuous.  I can see the logic in it.  Don't get me wrong there, but if I bought Legacy, wouldn't that lead the company to believe I would prefer a Trek RTS when I don't?  Presumably someone has studied this market, but whatever conclusions Besthesda or anyone else may have come to, those conclusion don't seem to apply to me as a consumer, nor I suspect to many of us here.

[Julin Eurthyr]

On this whole "buy Trek and SFC 4 will come", consider this:

SFC 1 came out when slapping "Star Trek" on a game box was an "ironclad guarantee" that a game would sell close to 500,000 copies.  See the Klingon language disk and Borg "games" for proof of that.  We just got lucky that a dev-house thought that making a SFB-based game would hopefully translate into a blockbuster.

And I 've been thinking of something else.  Perhaps the biggest thing holding back SFC 4 is, well, us.  Consider:

At "our" behest, 14 deg. East and Taldren both broke from their respective publishers in the release of patches, see SFC 1.03, every EAW patch between 2.0.7-ish to 2.49.99999999, and what happened with SFC III.  (Interplay knew Taldren's patching-wishes for OP, and said "okay, patch OP in your own way, we'll save the QA dollars"...)

We've essentially "voted" for what we "demand".  Every forum from I-play through Taldren to here seems to insist that the SFC crowd will not be happy unless a game is released that is a 100% faithful translation of every SFB-edition from plastic-baggy to Captain's, with over 100 switches to turn on-off all the optional rules from every ruleset...  Being that every successive edition of SFC has sold worse than the earlier one (after we flame it for not being SFB-accurate), well, think like a suit for a minute at what kind of game will sell to us...
Back that sales number up with the flamewars that are probably sitting in some internet-archive somewhere and...

And top that off with issues of complexity.  Reviewers complain that SFC is too complex for even the RTS crowd, managing power while maneuvering for range and arc while considering what position you need to be in to maximize damage from your guns and minimize damage received from a subset of 20-odd different weapon charts overwhelmes even the most stat-minded "I know every number on my RTS outfit's forces..." player.  And the code seems to be as complex as a Microsoft production, being that there are still bugs in this game after 20+ different builds.


To me, there's only one way we can dream of SFC 4 coming out.  Let them start with Tac-ops, and hope that it's not too complex for the twitchy DS players out there.  Once we hook a new generation (of about 500,000 PC and handheld owning houses) on the basics of SFC-operations, make a sequel or 2 where various SFB-ish things are added in slowly, so that in a year or 2, when the 4th Tac-op derived game is released, it's our wish, ie, SFC 4...

[Bonk]

What EmeraldEdge, GDA-S'Cipio, Lepton and Julin Eurthyr said.

I'm pretty sure that the only hope for the product we want is a not-for-profit, ADB approved, non-trek game that we develop ourselves.

I agree that the logic of buy a product you do not want to get a product you do want makes no sense at all, it would just encourage them to make more products we don't want.

Crim, ever the optimist (God Bless im), feels that at least we have them thinking about it. Perhaps he is right, persistance might pay off, but I move that we do not purchase products we do not want, I'm of the opinion that will say more. Besides what percentage of us own a DS or even want one?

EDIT: I may even go post this vew on these threads under discussion, and in any letters I write to Quicksilver. Perhaps concealing my disappointment in them is exactly the wrong thing to do. They have totally missed the mark with this one, as I've said elsewhere, I'm pretty sure this is doomed to fail. Todays kids and teens are more interested in rapper street gang fighting games and the like, not SFB type tactical/strategy games for the nostalgic dice hounds of old.

As for the subject, I say it is crap, and I'm off the pot... flussshhh!