Topic: What's with the Google Ads

[Lepton]

I see we now have Google ads.  Any official word on why other than merely to raise money.

[Bonk]

Mainly to raise money, each "click through" counts for a few cents. But I've noticed some neat stuff linked as they are context and region sensitive. I saw one that linked some pretty cheap deals on SFC3 on E-bay and someone else was giving away free copies of OP for registering with their service! So it seems there is a few benefits to using them.

I'll be working on them over the next while. Feedback, as always, is welcome.

[FA Frey XC]

Perhaps if more of the users we have showed their support, we wouldn't have to implement google, or any other ads.

You can't have it both ways, and in the last 2 years of D.Net we've not had them (ads), and in  the 4 years preceeding on any site ran / maintained by XenoCorp we've not had ads. I've paid for every server, every component, every web registration and the rest of it (with the generous help of the few stalwart supporters since the launch of D.Net who contributed to each fund raiser [all two of them]- you know who you are, and we here at D.Net SALUTE you!)

Right now, we can't expect to  continue to upgrade our services in preparation for the release of our Campaign interface and mySQL support for OP if we can't raise the money for it.

Bottom line, things cost money, and if we got enough private donations, we wouldn't have to implement ads. Dynaverse.Net isn't going to just disappear because most people just like the site, and are not in a position to send in some cash, so we've got to work out the solution. It's our opinion that if we can, we're going to stick just with the google ads and not anything else.

Your opinion, Lepton? Or anyone else for that matter?

[Lepton]

I am not opposed to Google ads in general but frankly I don't know how they work.  How does this raise money for D.net if any?  What constitutes a click-through?  If the ads are going to be strictly related to SFC content, isn't that preaching to the converted?  Might want to get associated sci-fi content as opposed to SFC content ads.  As to the fund-raiser, that is difficult matter.  What if someone disagrees on how the money is planned on being spent?  Does contributing give someone a say-so or merely a pat on the back?

I frankly don't use the services provided here enough to pay money to keep it going.  I only came back around here for KCW.  I played a total of maybe six hours on it.  I visit the website for the heck of it, not really to play SFC.  Frankly, I don't like the dynaverse.  I don't like AI missions.  If I thought contributing money would swing things more in the direction I would prefer to see SFC go, I might be tempted, but on a site that is called dynaverse.net I doubt that will happen.

I know that sounds like a crappy attitude and I am sure I am now in everyone's gunsights for daring to say I won't give money, but there are dozens and dozens that I am sure have not either.  It might be nice to post the names, identities, and amounts contributed.  People might be shamed and/or prodded into contributing.  If there are 12 people I know contrinuting like 20 bucks.  I might say to myself, "Hell, I can do that."  Or if it is 3 or 4 people contributing alot, I might say I can at least give something, but frankly I am not sure that anyone knows this.

Here's my idea.  Set a fund raising goal and implement a thermostat graphic that shows up on every page that the site loads how far away we are from the goal and a message encouraging giving.  Kind of like a toned-down public radio fundraiser.  Hell you've reminded me that this fundraiser is going on, but challenging people one person at a time to put up or shut up isn't going to work.  People just need a little credit for doing good and some social pressure and prodding to do the right thing.

I'd much rather see people getting credit on every page the server serves up for contributing rather than Google ads.

[Bonk]

I am not opposed to Google ads in general but frankly I don't know how they work.  How does this raise money for D.net if any?  What constitutes a click-through?  If the ads are going to be strictly related to SFC content, isn't that preaching to the converted?  Might want to get associated sci-fi content as opposed to SFC content ads.

http://www.google.com/services/adsense_tour/

If you click an ad link to open in the same window, Dynaverse.net's account is credited. (a very small amount per click)

It took me a lot of effort to implement this, not so much the ads themselves, but fixing the SMF code so that it does not include the phpsessid in the url, simplemachines claims on their site that SMF works properly in this respect, but in fact it does not, I spent most of today fixing this. 

The ad content will vary and it varies by region as well. I see different ads on the site here in Canada than you will see in the US, most less SFC related. The content will vary by context as well, open the Engineering forum and see what you get for ads...

Regarding preaching to the converted... a lot of people come here asking where they can get copies of the various versions of SFC. I think the fact that it is giving us SFC and Trek related ads is great! I went to a lot of trouble to make sure they worked well in this respect. (fixing SMF yet again...)

Here's my idea.  Set a fund raising goal and implement a thermostat graphic that shows up on every page that the site loads how far away we are from the goal and a message encouraging giving.  Kind of like a toned-down public radio fundraiser.  Hell you've reminded me that this fundraiser is going on, but challenging people one person at a time to put up or shut up isn't going to work.  People just need a little credit for doing good and some social pressure and prodding to do the right thing.

That's not a bad idea there, the old fundraiser thermometer, United Way style. Hmmm...

I'd much rather see people getting credit on every page the server serves up for contributing rather than Google ads.

I made sure the ads fit nicely with the site and are as unobtrusive as possible. (color matched, text only). Or would you prefer to see giant "Red the Fox" image banners again?

[FA Frey XC]

Lepton, I'd ask you to actually read the announcent in this very same forum:

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163364079.0.html

You'd see where I have done just that, I've listed the number of donations to date we've received, as well as the current amount we've raised.

As for "shaming" people into donating, perhaps that'd work for you, but it doesn't for me. Doesn't feel right - making people feel bad about something so they do something to alleviate their guilt ?

I'd much rather people voiced their opinions, and their concerns, and then did something that allowed us to address those opinions and concerns. It's too bad you seem to have an inherent mistrust of us, Lepton, because I think you're going to loose your mind when you see what we have in store for the online campaign.

We don't HAVE to have Google Ads, but we don't have to have servers that can handle multiple campaigns, webhosting for FREE for any members of our community, email and spam filtering, etc.etc.

But we do, I'm just trying to do things so we can distribute the load - and so we don't have to rely on the generosity of our members, whom we value.

Even you Lepton, even you.

[FA Frey XC]

I'd remind people that if you wanted to get something for your donation then you could always purchase the OP Revised Strategy guide at Lulu.Com

It's a damn nice manual that's got a bunch of really good stuff, if your a new player to OP and want the downlow, I'd suggest taking a look at it:

Printed: 216 pages, 8.5" x 11.0", coil binding, black and white interior
Publisher: Frey Petermeier
License: Standard Copyright License
Copyright Year: © 2005
Language: English
Lulu Sales Rank: 1,847

http://www.lulu.com/sfcop

The forum board is HERE

[Lepton]

Hey, perhaps you've answered your own question.  How can I be excited about what I don't know is being developed?  If folks were kept in the loop, there might be more enthusiasm and more donations.  People are alternatively belly-aching over D2 servers or praising them, but if people don't know to what effort they are contributing their funds, why contribute?  I see you have plans to buy servers, improve the infrastructure in general, and kick some money to the generous hosts.  That's cool, but not anything to get too amped about.

I don't necessarily mean shaming.  It's more like social pressure.  If the fact the people are contributing is forefronted rather than buried somewhere in a thread I have never seen nor most have seen then it might stir things up.

I did in fact read the thread you posted in part.  Alot more there than I need to know.  You are trying to make a very technical arguement there as to why people should kick money into the endeavor.  That's like PBS telling us how much it costs to operate all their transmission towers and repeaters.  People couldn't care less about that.   That's why PBS doesn't raise money that way anymore largely. People wanna know what they are getting for their money.  As I said, this is the first time I am hearing of this campaign interface.  News to me.

[762_XC]

Don't let us keep you then.

[FA Frey XC]

Lepton, we've outlined the stuff we're working on in numerous threads.

As you said, you don't come here enough to actually know that.

But, to show you that I mean what I say, look for another announcement in this very board that will detail these coming improvements, yet again.

Then perhaps we'll be worthy of more of your attention

[Lepton]

Don't let us keep you then.

Hey, don't piss yourself either.  I am learning through this conversation what is occurring here.  If something good is coming down the pike, that is great, but there is nothing I am aware of.  I am certainly not discouraging people from contributing.  It would be nice to know what it is all goes to or what is coming down the pike.  Frankly, I am trying to assist in more effective methods to raise money as I see it.  If you take it as mere criticism, you can feel free to shove it.  Comprendez vous?

[FA Frey XC]

Here's a link to a post I made sometime ago:

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163360158.0.html

That's our resources we offer for the community.

Here's one that outlines our future plans:

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163357537.msg1122584833.html#msg1122584833

"Because knowing is half the battle."



P.S. Asking us to not take something as criticism when your posting tone is about as positive as the number negative 1003 is a bit much. I'm all for constructive feedback, but I would at least ask for some civility in it. "What's with the Google Ads" would be perceived by many to not be anything but negative, and quite possibly criticism. As for shoving it, I'm learning about what's going on here with you, as well. Is that last part french? I'm just a dumb site admin but it sure does look like some foreign language. Maybe it means "I'm being constructive!" I dunno.

[Lepton]

As I said, I realize if I say anything about money for this place, I have an instant target on me.  I'm fine with that.  I'm merely suggesting that people couldn't care less about those things.  People don't think that way.  Sure when prodded everyone will say, "Way to go, Frey.  We love you, kiss, kiss"  Not that I think this is about you.  People will gladly express thanks when it is expeced of them, but if you want to get them excited about something, more has always got to be offered and often it really ahs to be about what do I get as opposed to what do I give. Like I said, those resources that are provided while essential and great are like paint drying.

I realise it is nearly impossible to seperate out all the work that you and others do do to keep this place running and moving forward and not have it be something very personal to you and others, but from my perspective it's a website I occasionally visit, more so recently, and a service I occasionally use.  To you it is a major focus of your time.  To me, it's nice to have, but not essential.

Ah, see that's more like it.  Future plans.  Cool.  Reading now.

[Lepton]

Ok, that's certainly more of what I am looking for.  I am willing to support such an endeavor.  Presumably this is all part of the work done on the server kit which I have supported in my own limited way.  I look forward to what is coming down the pike.  Thanks for clarifying the issue for me.

[FA Frey XC]

Stuff been there awhile, Lepton 'ole Hoss.

Maybe that's the problem, some individuals don't really see those things.

I don't know why, I've posted announcements and links.

Anywho, glad you see something you like

[Bonk]

Lepton's my favorite critic, he's good at it. Plus, he recently helped me test my PvP DV shift code till it worked, and is pretty consistently and patiently there for any Dynaverse server testing. Though he can be a bit cranky about the whole thing sometimes, I appreciate the 'ol curmudgeon a great deal, he's been around for ages with a critical eye and sharp tounge.  

edit: plus he debugged the early versions of my webmaps about 5 years ago, the reason they contain no javascript whatsoever and never will...