Topic: A handful of old missions to clean up or discard

[NuclearWessels]

OK, there is the handful of standard NW missions I'm working on cleaning up (fixing maps, AI, drafting etc) - pretty much the set in use on KCW.

I'm just wondering if there are any of the others that should be resurrected if properly fixed.

11ConvoyRaid/12ConvoyEscort - the big issue I see with this one is the poor slob on the convoy side can't draft a wing, so can get clobbered 3v1 in PvP.  If wings for the convoy team can be added are either of these worth bringing back?

3/4Ambush missions - the ambushee can't draft a wing, is this worth resurrecting if that is addressed?

1Scout - right now this is purely 1v1 for PvP, not sure if it's worth bothering with since even if modified to support 3v3 it would still boil down to patrol style combat

Shipyard assault/defense - don't think this one is in use much anymore, any suggested changes that would make it server-palatable, or just let it lie?

Comments/suggestions for the other missions are welcome of course
dave

[KBF-Kurok]

The thing i like about the sy assult and defense are the fact that you can make mega pp on them.I agree about the scout mission.The convoy raid if fixed so it drafted prpoerly is one im not sure about.It can be used to farm pp also and is a fun mission if its 1v1 not sure about2v2 or 3v3 on it, might be fun that way also. The ambush mission is one i have had a blast on in the past fighting a 2v1 can be very exciting if also a quick death. I realy like all of your missions that you have done even the ones not in the standard server pack. Missions like the one you have to rescue the spy, the rock monster one or the one where your started in a damaged ship by the aincients or who ever it was. That series of missions was always fun because you didnt always know who your enemy was. As you can see i prety much like all of them and would likme to see them all fixed. I however understand that is alot of work so id suggest fixing you standard d2 pack first and then let the cards fall where they might on the others.
I hope this helps
Kurok

[Bonk]

11ConvoyRaid/12ConvoyEscort - the big issue I see with this one is the poor slob on the convoy side can't draft a wing, so can get clobbered 3v1 in PvP.  If wings for the convoy team can be added are either of these worth bringing back?

The general impression I get is that the players do not want to see convoy missions anymore as the outcome does not depend soley on the dogfight. Kind of a shame because I thought they were fun as they gave the little guy a chance.

3/4Ambush missions - the ambushee can't draft a wing, is this worth resurrecting if that is addressed?

I am strongly against any missions that will not draft a full 3vs3. However, some players want this. (usually the ones assigned big ships)

1Scout - right now this is purely 1v1 for PvP, not sure if it's worth bothering with since even if modified to support 3v3 it would still boil down to patrol style combat

Same comment as above.

Shipyard assault/defense - don't think this one is in use much anymore, any suggested changes that would make it server-palatable, or just let it lie?

I like this one, but like the Convoy missions, PvP aces dislike it strongly as the outcome is not dependent on the dogfight alone. Perhaps if these missions could be adjusted that if fought solo or coop they run as is, but under PvP conditions they depend soley on the dogfight? If that would be possible I think both would be used more.

Overall its probably best to minimise the number of missions to work on and focus on testing and QA.

Dizzy should have some good input on this.

[FPF-DieHard]

11ConvoyRaid/12ConvoyEscort - the big issue I see with this one is the poor slob on the convoy side can't draft a wing, so can get clobbered 3v1 in PvP.  If wings for the convoy team can be added are either of these worth bringing back?

The general impression I get is that the players do not want to see convoy missions anymore as the outcome does not depend soley on the dogfight. Kind of a shame because I thought they were fun as they gave the little guy a chance.

Not true at all,  this mission was pulled because they were an ambush in friendly space. 

[Riskyllama]

Shipyard assault/defense - don't think this one is in use much anymore, any suggested changes that would make it server-palatable, or just let it lie?

The reason we haven't been running this one recently, by my limited understanding, was that on SGO5's testing we found a bug where destruction of a ship caused the mission to end abruptly about half the time or more, asssuming I have the right mission(dizzy can confirm or deny this.) I believe it was planned  to be used in SGO5 until then.

If the 1v1 Scout is marked Scout instead of Patrol, need to fix this comment in the other thread, it at least gives people a warning of what they're getting into. Convoy escorts are fun alot of the time, figure out a compromise if needed in order to keep them. The others I dont have enough experience with to comment on.

[Julin Eurthyr]

11ConvoyRaid/12ConvoyEscort - the big issue I see with this one is the poor slob on the convoy side can't draft a wing, so can get clobbered 3v1 in PvP.  If wings for the convoy team can be added are either of these worth bringing back?

I'd like to see this as a 3 on 3.  Must be an important convoy though if there's 3 fleet warships guarding it...

3/4Ambush missions - the ambushee can't draft a wing, is this worth resurrecting if that is addressed?

This is a decent concept, however, I'd like to see it implemened differently.  Some thoughts:
1.  Attempt to restrict the draft.  The ambushers are in CLs / CWs on down, the ambushee is in a BCH on up.  Therefore, if I'm in a C7, I can only be ambushed, and I can't ambush anyone in an I-CAZ...
2.  Close the range or put up borders.  As it is now, the ambushee can just plot a course between the 2 opponents and taco bell without even a good shot put on him.  There needs to be a way to force the ambushee to get shot at at least once...
These changes bring the purpose of the ambush into a setting more appropriate to the war.  DNs don't ambush FFs with the intent of a surprise destruction, FFs ambush BCHs to do that...   Now, I don't think this is possible, as the script doesn't know what it's doing until after it executes.  Therefore, (and I know someone might be highly upset at this), could we do the old SFC 1 "surprise reversed" trick, where the ambushers are assigned a "generic" CW of their race, and the ambushee gets a BCH or Early DN of their race...

1Scout - right now this is purely 1v1 for PvP, not sure if it's worth bothering with since even if modified to support 3v3 it would still boil down to patrol style combat

Only if it's advertised as a 1v1 PvP in the missions screen (ie, instead of being patrol, it's scout or something all the time...)  Would prefer this also not be made into a "shall I scout or scout as my 2 mission choices...)

Shipyard assault/defense - don't think this one is in use much anymore, any suggested changes that would make it server-palatable, or just let it lie?

This is the fun mission.  With the "enhanced" FRDs, it's not just free flybys anymore.  This might also be a mission where the "PvP ace" might have to learn to "beat the clock", ie, they need to kill the enemy before they get at the shipyard.  Or they need to sit rock on 1 of the docks, so that to get the final dock etc., they need to beat the defender.  Good candidate for the AI-stripping, so that it's only FRDs and Humans in PvP...

[Bonk]

11ConvoyRaid/12ConvoyEscort - the big issue I see with this one is the poor slob on the convoy side can't draft a wing, so can get clobbered 3v1 in PvP.  If wings for the convoy team can be added are either of these worth bringing back?

The general impression I get is that the players do not want to see convoy missions anymore as the outcome does not depend soley on the dogfight. Kind of a shame because I thought they were fun as they gave the little guy a chance.

Not true at all,  this mission was pulled because they were an ambush in friendly space. 

I stand (er... sit) corrected. I would like to see them used again if equalised in drafting teams.

[FPF-DieHard]

11ConvoyRaid/12ConvoyEscort - the big issue I see with this one is the poor slob on the convoy side can't draft a wing, so can get clobbered 3v1 in PvP.  If wings for the convoy team can be added are either of these worth bringing back?

The general impression I get is that the players do not want to see convoy missions anymore as the outcome does not depend soley on the dogfight. Kind of a shame because I thought they were fun as they gave the little guy a chance.

Not true at all,  this mission was pulled because they were an ambush in friendly space. 

I stand (er... sit) corrected. I would like to see them used again if equalised in drafting teams.

I would to, they are a lot of fun. 

I do not belive the Disenagamnet rul should count in these missions as the objective is destroying the convoy, not messuring your schween.

[762_XC]

I always liked the convoy missions, except for the 2v1 draft.

However if we do develop multiple-DV shift PvP missions we need to consider how this would integrate with missions like Convoy, where it is possible to win the PvP and lose the mission.

[Hexx]

All I want is the mission that randomnly spawns black holes to be brought back.
Dunno if it was ever on a server or if it's a SP missions I remember- but I miss it.

[Riskyllama]

Black Hole Mania! SFC1 skirmish map.

All I want is the mission that randomnly spawns black holes to be brought back.
Dunno if it was ever on a server or if it's a SP missions I remember- but I miss it.

[Bonk]

Black hole mania was a hoot! One of my favorite SFB scenarios. 

However if we do develop multiple-DV shift PvP missions we need to consider how this would integrate with missions like Convoy, where it is possible to win the PvP and lose the mission.

Multiple DV shift PvP missions is pretty much done (serverside, not in the missions script). What about my suggestion above regarding your concern?:

Perhaps if these missions could be adjusted that if fought solo or coop they run as is, but under PvP conditions they depend soley on the dogfight

  addendum: Perhaps with a PP bonus for the convoy instead of a mission win?

I do not belive the Disenagamnet rul should count in these missions as the objective is destroying the convoy, not messuring your schween.

Multiple DV shifts for PvP should make the disengagement rule obsolete unless PvP aces can come up with another reason to get the measuring tape out. And yes, convoy missions are fun!

[Dfly]

I dont know if I ever saw this one I am about to mention.  I know it was one that my friends and I loved for the board game.  Perhaps there is a way to implement it here?

It is a form of Ambush.  Map is littered with rocks, space debris, etc,, that makes flyiing faster than speed 6 a hazard on front shields.  There is only 1 path winding through it.  One fleet must either fly the path to the end, or go through all the space debris and rocks etc to get to the other end.  The ambushers are sitting somewhere along the edge of the pathway, out of site of the incoming ship. 

Does anyone remember anything like this one?  It has been years since I have played the board game and I know it was in there, but can not remember if a mission was ever made in this way for servers.

[KBFLordKrueg]

IMPO, as long as they'll draft 3 players from each side, I like all those missions.
*deposits 2 cents*

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I love the convoy raid missions.  If the drafting issues are fixed I'd love to see them again.

(Special note:  There was a version of Convoy Escort that drafted your allies as attackers.  I can't remember whose version this was, but that needs to be fixed before bringing that mission back.)

I strongly disagree with making the mission outcome dependant upon the PvP rather than the life of the convoy.  The convoy is the whole point of the mission and, as others said, gives a small ship an opportunity to "defeat" a large ship.

If you make victory dependant upon the PvP then  you don't have a Convoy Raid, you've got just another  Patrol with a couple of (ignored) freightors hanging out.  The cargo is supposed to be more important than the escort.

-S'Cipio

[NuclearWessels]

I dont know if I ever saw this one I am about to mention.  I know it was one that my friends and I loved for the board game.  Perhaps there is a way to implement it here?

It is a form of Ambush.  Map is littered with rocks, space debris, etc,, that makes flyiing faster than speed 6 a hazard on front shields.  There is only 1 path winding through it.  One fleet must either fly the path to the end, or go through all the space debris and rocks etc to get to the other end.  The ambushers are sitting somewhere along the edge of the pathway, out of site of the incoming ship. 

Does anyone remember anything like this one?  It has been years since I have played the board game and I know it was in there, but can not remember if a mission was ever made in this way for servers.

Boy does that bring back memories!  I don't remember ever seeing that one in the SFC series, but we played variants on that quite often on the board.

dave

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I dont know if I ever saw this one I am about to mention.  I know it was one that my friends and I loved for the board game.  Perhaps there is a way to implement it here?

It is a form of Ambush.  Map is littered with rocks, space debris, etc,, that makes flyiing faster than speed 6 a hazard on front shields.  There is only 1 path winding through it.  One fleet must either fly the path to the end, or go through all the space debris and rocks etc to get to the other end.  The ambushers are sitting somewhere along the edge of the pathway, out of site of the incoming ship. 

Does anyone remember anything like this one?  It has been years since I have played the board game and I know it was in there, but can not remember if a mission was ever made in this way for servers.

Boy does that bring back memories!  I don't remember ever seeing that one in the SFC series, but we played variants on that quite often on the board.

dave

The Battle of Blackfoot Pass?  It was supposed to be a very narrow pass through some very dense asteroids on the Klingon/Federation border.

I've got it somewhere.  I'll have to look it up in my Scenario books.

-S'Cipio