Topic: Poll/Discussion: AI support in PvP (Read 4636 times)

NuclearWessels · « **on:** February 03, 2006, 01:14:19 pm »

OK, now that I've finally got VC installed and debugged again, I'm looking at cleaning up issues in the commonly used missions.

A priority is to get rid of AI in PvP missions, but wanted to make sure I didn't get carried away, hence the question. I'd fall anywhere in the 2-4 category, but am happy to set things up however the community wants.

(I wanted to get the question posted while we still have lots of KCW activity on the boards, hopefully to get as much feedback as possible.)

dave

GDA-S'Cipio · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2006, 01:32:54 pm »

A good poll! I'm going to be very curious to see how it comes out.

Personally, I think there should be enough AI to even the odds. I always enjoyed the old missions when AI showed up to help the undergunned side. Yes, I know AI "help" is an experience in frustration and some races have better AI than others, but it's the best help we've got. In the old das outgunned pilots used to stick around for a pass or two hoping to get lucky, trying to use their AI as a shield. In the new days of strickly human players, the undergunned ship often just leaves. (Caveat: your AI "help" has to have enough marines to make capture difficult.)

The AI stripping also feeds the move to get into the biggest ship possible. It's not responsible by any stretch of the imagination, that just competitiveness. But facing fewer ships per mission when fighting humans might give some a reason to stick with the smaller ships they say they enjoy.

What I did NOT enjoy in the old missions was when the heavier side would get AI help and the weaker side wouldn't. Or when two equal sides would get unequal AI help. I suspect these situations are part of what brought on the current push to eliminate AI help.

(Please note that "equal" is a broad term in my above paragraphs.)

-S'Cipio

Hexx · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2006, 01:48:25 pm »

I'd agree with S'cipio- if it can be set up so the side that's ougunned gets a reasonable ally I'm all for it
On many occasions though I'd be flying a BCH, get drafted by a human with a DN, and have hte human player get a BCH as AI
while I got a CW or smaller.

~ Again though even as I type this I'm not sure- many races have AI that can work very well (anything with 4+ drone racks, Hydran hellbore ships, some plasma chuckers, anything with plasma PF's) and some aren't so great (ie pretty much anything with an ESG)
Plus I suppose having a NAC as your opponents AI help might ruin a drone player's day.

Perhaps it is best to simply remove the AI from the match.

762_XC · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2006, 01:58:42 pm »

Quote from: Hexx on February 03, 2006, 01:48:25 pm

~ Again though even as I type this I'm not sure- many races have AI that can work very well (anything with 4+ drone racks, Hydran hellbore ships, some plasma chuckers, anything with plasma PF's) and some aren't so great (ie pretty much anything with an ESG)
Plus I suppose having a NAC as your opponents AI help might ruin a drone player's day.

Perhaps it is best to simply remove the AI from the match.

What shorty said. AI and PvP don't mix, unless you are tackling a base or planet.

KAT Chuut-Ritt · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:03:36 pm »

I think I heard you mention in another thread that ai can be configured to take into account the number of players and BPV of all ships not just the drafter. I would be very interested in seeing if these missions would work.

FPF-DieHard · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:18:50 pm »

Strip AI out of patrols. THis ruins PvP. Leave it for the assaults and some less common special missions.

KAT Chuut-Ritt · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:33:37 pm »

Quote from: GDA-S'Cipio on February 03, 2006, 01:32:54 pm

A good poll! I'm going to be very curious to see how it comes out.

Personally, I think there should be enough AI to even the odds. I always enjoyed the old missions when AI showed up to help the undergunned side. Yes, I know AI "help" is an experience in frustration and some races have better AI than others, but it's the best help we've got. In the old das outgunned pilots used to stick around for a pass or two hoping to get lucky, trying to use their AI as a shield. In the new days of strickly human players, the undergunned ship often just leaves. (Caveat: your AI "help" has to have enough marines to make capture difficult.)

The AI stripping also feeds the move to get into the biggest ship possible. It's not responsible by any stretch of the imagination, that just competitiveness. But facing fewer ships per mission when fighting humans might give some a reason to stick with the smaller ships they say they enjoy.

What I did NOT enjoy in the old missions was when the heavier side would get AI help and the weaker side wouldn't. Or when two equal sides would get unequal AI help. I suspect these situations are part of what brought on the current push to eliminate AI help.

(Please note that "equal" is a broad term in my above paragraphs.)

-S'Cipio

Totally agree with Scippy.

Bonk · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:46:06 pm »

Quote from: KAT Chuut-Ritt on February 03, 2006, 02:33:37 pm

Quote from: GDA-S'Cipio on February 03, 2006, 01:32:54 pm

A good poll! I'm going to be very curious to see how it comes out.

Personally, I think there should be enough AI to even the odds. I always enjoyed the old missions when AI showed up to help the undergunned side. Yes, I know AI "help" is an experience in frustration and some races have better AI than others, but it's the best help we've got. In the old das outgunned pilots used to stick around for a pass or two hoping to get lucky, trying to use their AI as a shield. In the new days of strickly human players, the undergunned ship often just leaves. (Caveat: your AI "help" has to have enough marines to make capture difficult.)

The AI stripping also feeds the move to get into the biggest ship possible. It's not responsible by any stretch of the imagination, that just competitiveness. But facing fewer ships per mission when fighting humans might give some a reason to stick with the smaller ships they say they enjoy.

What I did NOT enjoy in the old missions was when the heavier side would get AI help and the weaker side wouldn't. Or when two equal sides would get unequal AI help. I suspect these situations are part of what brought on the current push to eliminate AI help.

(Please note that "equal" is a broad term in my above paragraphs.)

-S'Cipio

Totally agree with Scippy.

What they said.

Dfly · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2006, 06:04:46 pm »

agreed

Dizzy · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2006, 06:42:32 pm »

Make sure you leave me with a few patrols 2v2's that still have AI in them for variety. I can remember some stellar battles involving AI help. So much fun.

Lepton · « **Reply #10 on:** February 03, 2006, 09:00:14 pm »

I'll express an extremely minority view here. I'd like to see even more AI in PvP missions. To me a 2v2 or even 3v3 via whatever combo of AI and human ships does not capture the scale of an actual fleet battle. These are more like border skrimishes to me. I understand the desire for some PvP jousting on server. This is why the press for AI stripping, but to me in an gaming environment where the maximum number of ships in a mission is 6 due to player choices and server conventions, i.e 1 person 1 ship / no fleets, I'd really like to see an option, at least an option, for some larger battles.

KAT Chuut-Ritt · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2006, 12:40:34 am »

Quote from: Lepton on February 03, 2006, 09:00:14 pm

I'll express an extremely minority view here. I'd like to see even more AI in PvP missions. To me a 2v2 or even 3v3 via whatever combo of AI and human ships does not capture the scale of an actual fleet battle. These are more like border skrimishes to me. I understand the desire for some PvP jousting on server. This is why the press for AI stripping, but to me in an gaming environment where the maximum number of ships in a mission is 6 due to player choices and server conventions, i.e 1 person 1 ship / no fleets, I'd really like to see an option, at least an option, for some larger battles.

Don't fully agree Lepton but definately a +1 for you for expressing an origional idea for consideration, keep thinking "out of the box" some of us appreciate very much the chance to consider new ideas.

IAF Lyrkiller · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2006, 03:43:36 pm »

Yes, I would like to see larger ships come in for help.

I dont know how many tiimes I had my but handed to me by AI. for that matter outgunned.

762_XC · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2006, 05:14:15 pm »

I forsee a lot of problems with this. All AI is not equal.

When it affects mission times that's one thing; when it alters the outcome of a PvP, that's horrendous.

Dizzy · « **Reply #14 on:** February 04, 2006, 08:07:40 pm »

Quote from: 762_XC on February 04, 2006, 05:14:15 pm

I forsee a lot of problems with this. All AI is not equal.

When it affects mission times that's one thing; when it alters the outcome of a PvP, that's horrendous.

Yeah, you have some personal experience with this, dont you, tool. HAHAHAHA

Nemesis · « **Reply #15 on:** February 04, 2006, 08:20:34 pm »

One of the more fun online missions I had was a 1vs1 where we each had 2 helping AI in an asteroid field. Even though the other side had the edge in fire power I quite enjoyed it. We were both in Fed ships (Fed vs Evil Empire server I forgot the name)

Another of my more memorable online battles was long ago in EAW where I (as a Romulan) was drafted to defend a convoy vs 2 Feds and a Mirak (with 2 ships). Any one of their ships was approximately equal to mine and it was a heck of a battle trying to save the convoy while doing as much damage as possible. If the convoy mission was updated so it could but not must draft more defenders that would be good.

AI and unbalanced battles add spice they should happen at least part of the time.

762_XC · « **Reply #16 on:** February 04, 2006, 09:21:56 pm »

Hey, just because you were afraid to fight me fair.

KBF-Crim · « **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2006, 09:41:59 pm »

I'm with Lepton.....

StarFLEET Command...

Lepton · « **Reply #18 on:** February 04, 2006, 11:31:29 pm »

Some of the most fun I ever had, which I am sure you will all say is heresy, with AI was in SFC3 in these fleet action missions that had 12 ships in it, 3 per side, 4 different sides. That's alot of ships to shoot at. Long missions, yes, but also pretty enjoyable. Also I'll put in a plug for AI control in missions. EEK missions are great for that. You can usual corral the AI for one good pass. I say this not as a criticism of existing missions, but only to say that AI is not all bad if you are talking about getting actual fleets going. In fact, they are required.

FPF-DieHard · « **Reply #19 on:** February 05, 2006, 12:28:22 am »

Can somebody PLEASE teach Dizzy how to convert BMPs to JPEGS

Keep the AI out of PvP "patrol" missions, let the AI stay in other missions.

Fleet missions could server a valid purpose though, perhaps set them to trigger on certain terrain such as planet hexes? It kinda makes sense, the fleets would congregate around assests.

News:

Poll

REVISITED: (Strictly for PvP missions) when should AI support ships be provided?

Topic: Poll/Discussion: AI support in PvP (Read 4636 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

762_XC

762_XC

762_XC

Topic: Poll/Discussion: AI support in PvP (Read 4636 times)