Topic: J'inn: You Bastard!!!!

[762_XC]

"Lack of players" is due to the fact that it's a 5 year old game. I'm not sure what "over-legislation" means, but if you're suggesting Chuut, that the disengagement rule has driven off more peeps than it has RETAINED, I think you could not possibly be more wrong.

The fact that D2 is even still alive after all these years indicates to me that we have something good going here.

Lest you forget, the DR was the brainchild of the most infamous hex-flipper of all as an attempt to keep the plasma races from disappearing totally. It has succeeded well beyond anyone's expectations.

To summarize, it's all Fluf's fault.

[Bonk]

The disengagement rule is needed (until hopefully Bonk's work takes care of everything including someone running off the hex)

That is how Lepton and I have been testing it, I have been running off, he wins, consistently. However, it is the mission script's responsibility to report this correctly, there is nothing I can do in the serverkit code to affect that. (The "patrol bug" should be long dead).

By the sounds of things here I'll have to add differing gf configurable DV shifts for various combinations of 2vs1, 3vs2... as well.

Note that it is using DV shifts of one and high hex DVs that has painted us into this corner, the old serverkit defaults would result in most hexes flipping in just one mission, kinda negating the whole PvP and hex flipping time issues...

[K'Hexx]

Lest you forget, the DR was the brainchild of the most infamous hex-flipper of all as an attempt to keep the plasma races from disappearing totally. It has succeeded well beyond anyone's expectations.

Fluf did 80% of his hex flipping in a CVA t00l, what he was was the most infamouse "big-ship"  captain after yourself of course.

[762_XC]

Don't forget Die Hard. 

It is kind of funny you perceive me as a big ship captain, considering how naked I feel without a high energy turn at my disposal.

Granted there aren't that many Hydran pilots who feel comfortable in dreads. Maybe 3 or 4 of us left?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I consider a CCH and above a big ship t00l, doesn't take a DN to be considered big.

[762_XC]

Then it's hardly a descriptive term, since you are talking about 95% of D2 players.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Then it's hardly a descriptive term, since you are talking about 95% of D2 players.

95% since the disengagement rule and Karnak patrols perhaps 

Anyhow, the CCH is a big ship, but I tend to think of the "big ship" as one who is usually to be found in a BCH or larger, but occassionally "slum" it in a CCH which would be in the largest 10% if not 5% of any race's navy.  Nothing against the CCH, it is a great ship class and one of the more balabced,just feel that recent settings have been very unfair to those who like to fly smaller ships. 

[FPF-DieHard]

. . . just feel that recent settings have been very unfair to those who like to fly smaller ships. 

PvP always gives an advantage to the bigger better ships.  There is no way to have PvP count for anything without perpetuating this.

We should rename KCW to "Attack of the D7Ws"   

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Of course PvP would give the larger ships the advantage in combat, but out of PvP it applies as well.  Look at the mission matching in Karnak patrols.  Funny thing was Karnak designed his missions to make it hard for droners, it really didn't, what it did do was make the missions very difficult for small ships except for droners, thus prompting increased use of drone boats and larger ships.

[762_XC]

Players who like to fly small ships are SOL without artificial limitations, like The Slot. That's not because of DR, that's just human nature. People fly the biggest thing they can get. There's nothing "forcing" them to do this, they do it anyway.

At least now thanks to "over-legislation" we no longer have 3xBB fleets running around.

[FPF-DieHard]

Of course PvP would give the larger ships the advantage in combat, but out of PvP it applies as well.  Look at the mission matching in Karnak patrols.  Funny thing was Karnak designed his missions to make it hard for droners, it really didn't, what it did do was make the missions very difficult for small ships except for droners, thus prompting increased use of drone boats and larger ships.

No disagreement about the Karnak patrols.  I'm not using them again unless he comes back to fix some bugs.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Players who like to fly small ships are SOL without artificial limitations, like The Slot. That's not because of DR, that's just human nature.

respectfully disagree.

[762_XC]

Are you saying before the disengagement rule people in general DIDN'T gravitate towards bigger ships?

[Hexx]

Players who like PVP *tend* to gravitate towards big ships
Players who like hex flipping *tend* to gravitate towards smaller ships

The problem arises from the fact that the D2 is-for all intents and purposes- about hex flipping.
A frigate with 4 or 6 drone racks can do far more damage in proportion to it's ability to take damage
than anything bigger.As their size increases,ships increase their ability to absorb damage at a far greater rate than they
increase their firepower.
Given AI draws as being remotely equal to their BPV, small ships (with drones etc) will have a far faster mission time against AI
as it's far easier for a ship with 4-6 drone racks and 2 phaser 1's to kill a frigate than it is for a BCH to kill another BCH.

For hex flipping- the smaller ship is better, for PVP- where the ability to absorb some damage is needed the bigger ship works better.

So the question is- can we balance hex flipping with PvP? -so far we haven't even come close.
(Although Bonk may be riding to the rescue again)

As for the Karnak missions I'd have to respectfully disagree about the difficulty- I can run them in the same amount of time using a DWLP
as a BCHP.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

DWLP is a droner type ship with lots of offense for a small price.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Are you saying before the disengagement rule people in general DIDN'T gravitate towards bigger ships?

No not saying that they didn't only that it was much less a a gravitation at that time.  I'd say its at least 50% more now with the combination of the "DR" and fleeting limitations.  Origionally I was very pro one ship per pilot myself, and it still has its place on a few select servers but it should have never become the norm.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Here is a thought.

Would it be possible to have missions that drew ai opponents based on the number of pilots in a misssion and their hull classes?

This would mean that a frigate drafting for a battleship would draw an ai frigate and an ai battleship to fight.

 If this couldn't be done would it at least be possible to base it on the number of pilots?

It might help combat gangbanging behaviors a tad more.

[NuclearWessels]

Here is a thought.

Would it be possible to have missions that drew ai opponents based on the number of pilots in a misssion and their hull classes?

This would mean that a frigate drafting for a battleship would draw an ai frigate and an ai battleship to fight.

 If this couldn't be done would it at least be possible to base it on the number of pilots?

It might help combat gangbanging behaviors a tad more.

Using the EEK style (strip AI then create your own) it should be possible to customize the AI by the number of wings, their hull classes, and their combined BPV.

dave
 

[Fluf]

Gotta love a good Jinn you Bastard thread! 

Amazing after 5 years this game is still having the same arguements that it had when it started.  Im glad to see new things being tried and worked on continueously.  Keep it up people.

[Hexx]

DWLP is a droner type ship with lots of offense for a small price.

DWLP is a great ship- IMO- one of the best (actually the best) ow the DWL's
But I'd hardly call it a droner type ship as (even with the ESG's) it lacks the
"cruch" power that gives droners their mission times.

In PVP of course they're fantastic