Topic: FINAL KCW RULES AS OF 23/01/06!!!!!

[Hexx]

<sob>
OK barring any further stupidities contained within-
These ARE THE FINAL RULES AS OF 23/01/06


***MOST IMPORTANT***
-This server is for people to have fun, more specifically,it's for me to have fun.
So Let's try and keep it civil throughout the thing, they're may be betrayal, there may be
problems encountered, there may be issues with anything- in any event I expect everyone to blame me and
not start yelling at each other.
Try and use your head- dropping admin shuttles is fine, tractoring someone into an object is fine, tractoring someoen off the map
is not fine.
If there's an issue with lag, report it- get confirmation from hte opponent-

ALL the general place nice rules from previous servers apply here
Try and keep in mind this is a game, winning here doesn't *actually* mean you dominate the Klingon Empire

*** IMPORTANT***
Due to the fact that your House will be competing against every other House
(either directly or indirectly) it is important that the following be followed.

1) You MAY NOT Rot Fur at any time. If you do, your account will be banned. This
     INCLUDES losing missions on allied territory.
   
2) You may only have ONE account on the server. If you have more than one, they will all be erased.
    - The House Leader will have access to a created account with any special ships. They may have one
      additional account to these.
    -Obviously this will be waived for any ghosting/accopunt issues tha may occur.An account used as
     replacement for a ghosted on must have the name "Ghost" in front of your regular account name used
     on the server
     ie: Normally I use "Hexx" so it would be "GhostHexx"

3) IMPORTANT VP NOTE- VP's are awarded (bounty/PVP VP/Challenges ) for the House who's ship fires
    THE KILL SHOT.
    Ex- Dh & Dizzy wing up fight 2 other players, DH takes a beating but reduces one ship to scrap, before he kills
         it though Dizzy fires a Disrupter salvo and blows it up, Dizzy's house get the VP's . DH's house gets nothing.

4) IMPORTANT MAP NOTE : You may NOT attack any of the House Homeworld hexes (ie the planet hex or the six surrounding base hexes)
    Also do not attack the outside map border hexes- these are to provide the economy for the houses .


SHIPS _This is the important to read section- so it's first.

C7
-Each House has access to ONE C7
-This ship should be flown by the House Leader, if the House Leader is unavailable/unable
 for a specific period of time the ship may be assigned to a House Champion.
 This reassignment may only occur every 5 days.

-if a PVP house's C7 is chased off the field,bad things happen.
 The House Leader is overthrown and the C7 must be assigned to a new player
 (this may circumvent the 5day rule) The losing pilot may NEVER be transferred the C7 again though.
 (The House Leader can still run the house- really a RP decision)

Fleets

- E3's/E4's/G2's  may be flown in fleets of 3 ships Everything else is 1 ship/player. Just in case there's something I've
 missed the fleet may not have more than 1xE3Y

Other
- Only ships with a .5 move cost (or lower) can enter Neb hexes.

- No Droners/Carriers should be in the list. If you find one PLEASE DO NOT FLY THEM.
  Let myself or DH know hopefully we (DH) can take them out without causing huge issues.

Engagement & Disengagement

-Don't push people of the map with a tractor, it's annoying

HOUSES

(pvp)House of wIysuhl -Klingon
(ter)House of K'hnshy'a -ISC
(ter)House of HutDIch - Gorn
(pvp)House of D'emons -Lyran

vs

(ter)House of S'uh'nih -Federation
(pvp)House of Hy'kull - Romulan
(pvp)House of K'hunt- Hydran
(pvp)House of Korgath -Kzin


Until errors are found- any info here supercedes anything posted in one of my other 10 or 12 rules threads..


PVP VP points are only awarded for ship from the 4 Opposing Houses
- these are the four Houses you're not allied with.
No PVP VP's for smacking some trusting fool into a rock...

*** THE HOUSE CLAIMING THE POINTS MUST POST THE KILL/ FORCED RETREAT**
If the House claimng the points doesn't post the kill, they won't be counted.
Anything up to a day later is fine.
Any posts "Oh I forgot,I killed someone/player xxx last week, I think on Thursday..." won't be counted

This is simply to prevent what has happened on past kill threads where you have to sort out
and match up the "I killed/was killed by" posts. I'm lazy, I don't want to have to do it.


PVP Houses
Defeating a pilot from an opposing PVP house is worth 5VP
Defeating a pilot from an opposing Ter house is worth 2VP
Chasing a pilot from a PVP house off 2VP
Chasing a pilot from a TER house off 1VP

Territorial Houses
Defeating any Pilot is Worth 3VP
Chasing Off a PVP pilot is worth 2VP
Chasing off a TER pilot is worth 1VP

Now it gets complicated....
Disengagement VP only counts if someone flees from an even numbered battle.

HOWEVER  this is determined at mission start

ie House A has 3 pilots jump House B's 2 pilots, House B pilots may disengage (although they are bound by disengagement)
   House A has 2 pilots jump House B's 2 pilots, House B pilots may not disengage until one of them is dead.
   and the second pilot will surrender the above mentioned VP. (but will keep his or her ship)

IN CASE OF PLAYER DROPS
 The mission must be reattempted ONCE.The second time in it's a go no matter what happens, and the above rules come into play
 (so if you're outnumbered, you are allowed to flee, but will be surrendering VP)

DISENGAGEMENT
 If you flee a hex you're not permitted into it for any reason for 1 Hour.

VP's are awarded to the House who's ship fires the killing shot.


CHALLENGES

- House Korgath may designate one player to be able to decline (sans penalty) any and all challenges he likes
- Anyone may challenge anyone from another House
- The challenger chooses either the ship (D7w,F5 etc) or the venue (GSA map,map hex etc) The challengee chooses the other
   * Both of these can of course be done by mutual consent *
   If the match is GSA based the loser is expected to SD the ship they had when challenged
   (completely honour based, and can be waived if both parties agree)

*** The player who does not choose the ship is under no obligation to match the ship chosen, but if they fly something else it must have a LOWER BPV than the ship declared***




- A PVP House (the whole house) has one free decline of a challenge a week
  However-no player is forced to accept a challenge more than once a day
- A Territorial House player is under no obligation to figth a challenge.
  If a player declines a challenge however, they may not issue a challenge until they have accepted (and fought) one.
 (Of course if two players who have both declined challenges wish to fight they can)

- Once a challenge fight has begun, you are not allowed to withdraw.
  (well you can, but you count as dead)
- A House Leader/Champion (the C7 guy) may retreat from battle with the C7
  if they wish- but another pilot must be found for it (ie your side keeps the ship, but you can't fly it)
  Of course if the C7 is destroyed in a challenge it's gone.
- A House Leader (or champion) with a C7 may use it IF CHALLENGED. They may only use the C7 to challenge
  another C7 equipped player.
- A House Leader may ask a champion from their house to fight in their place if challenged , this champion MAY be assigned the C7
  for the duration of the fight (obviously only applies if the House Leader was challenegd by another player with a C7)
  but again if the C7 is lost.. it goes away.

Fleets- Fleet Challenges are acceptable (but should be fought on GSA)
          All players must meet all the conditons
          Fleet challenges are never mandatory
          Fleet challenges must have approval of the House leader

VP's - 10 VP/player dead goes to the winner of a challenge match

****** If you ask a player(s) to meet you (solo/with friends) in hex xx,yy you have ISSUED A CHALLENGE*****
           If all parties agree it can be treated as a normal fight, otherwise challenge rules apply

Bounties are to be PM'd to me by Sunday at 8PM Eastern

Bounties are worth 15 VP

Every House may place one bounty on any pilot from another house
-the pilot having the bounty placed on him has the option to decline
 if he declines, the pilot no longer may challenge any other player, and may not collect on a bounty,
 if he accepts he is bound by all the challenge and disengagement rules that his house is.


If the House placing the bounty claims it by having one of their pilots be the first to defeat
the player all is good.
If another House kills the player first ,the house doing the killing gets 15 pts,the House placing the initial bounty loses 5 points.

The original bounty is now transferred to the pilot who killed the player with the bounty on them.

ex- The KBF puts it's bounty on DH, unsurprisingly I kill him first.
      My House receives 15 points, the KBF lose 5points,the KBF
      now have a bounty on me.(worth 15 points)
      If the KBF kill me they recieve the original bounty,
      if Dizzy kills me first <snicker> then the KBF now have a bounty on Dizzy
     (KBF isn't penalized again, Dizzy's house gains 15pts)

A player may have multiple bounties on themselves.
Any house that has players with unclaimed bounties on them at the end of the server
receives 5 bonus points for evey 15K prestige or 3kills that pilot has. (iest only)

Bounties are awarded for kills in either PVP or FLEET Challenge matches.

The VP for Bounty kills goes to the House that fires the kill shot.

***An allied player who has claimed one of your bounties may be challenged ONCE to claim the bounty kill.
If he is killed, your house gets the bounty points (not the bounty and the challenge points)
The house challenging will provide a list of 2 players , the player who claimed the bounty will choose one of the two to fight. ***

MAP VP'S
Territorial Houses
Score 5pts for holding a Minor hex, 15pts for a Major Hex,30pts for a R0xx0rs hex

PVP Houses
Score 3 points for holding a Minor Hex, 10 Pts for a Major hex, 20 points for a R0xx0rs hex.


Minor hexes are Nebula hexes
Major hexes are Asteroids
R0xx0rs hexes are Base Stations (that started neutral) and Black Holes both will also figure majorly in the "secret" objectives)

*** Different def values for the same type of terrain are prest (ie some Neb hexes may be 20, some 10, some 5)***
      They are all worth the same- some just require more patrolling than others

-In additon each House (except Korgath) will have a small set of secret VP objectives mostly
related to screwing over another House /securing territory/ killing someone who has annoyed me
These will be PM'd to all Houses Wednesday night

Each House will receieve a list of 7, they'll range from pretty darn easy (take 5 asteroid hexes for bonus points)
to difficult (take all the Black Hole hexes) to frickin unlikely (seize every asteroid hex on the map)
There will be overlap amongst the houses , although no two Houses will have exactly the same missions.

3-4 of the "secret" objective from each House will be made known to all one week after  (ie the following  Wednesday, ) so that
someone else can try and stop you.

[KBFLordKrueg]

A bump..should this one be sticked and unsticky the other one?

[KBF-Korgal]

bump

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Hexx would you please define the territorial VC hexes?

Score 5pts for holding a Minor hex,

 15pts for a Major Hex,

30pts for a R0xx0rs hex

-have the ability to gain additional VP points (and special bonus gifts) for holding
 sets of objectives.


Also is running someone off worth VCs if the numbers are not even in a non challenge match?

[Hexx]

Territorila VP selection will be up Sunday Night if everything holds together

[Kougar_XC]

Going to hate me I'm sure... To try and help clear things up for everyone, I'm going to reiterate my questions that Hexx had already answered in other posts...


No one may disengage from a 1v1. (Or 2v2, or 3v3, unless someone dies first) This still holds, correct?

AI does not count as a "player", correct?

And finally, since you made changes to the c7 rules of disengagement, could you please restate them explcitely, so that anyone (including myself) knows what is allowed? (I'm sure at some point I'll be needing these...  )

Thank you kindly, Hexx. 

[762_XC]

My head hurts.

[Kougar_XC]

* Kougar_XC hands 762 another bottle of scotch

Here, have some more and you'll forget about your head hurting... 

[K'Hexx]

I think we need a Hexx to English translator 

[KBF-Netman]

Hexx could you put the rules an audio file, just lookin at the length of that post makes me dizzy.. just kidding lol

[KBF MalaK]

cool, no changes this week. I guess it's safe to assume the rules are established and it's safe to play. THIS server shoulda been the test server as it was live and rules changed kinda nulls this server as legit.

 

[Dfly]

It is a darn good thing there is a rule about ROTTING  FUR.  Because House of Demons is losing key hexes to my "allies" when there is no possible way for the enemy to get there and take them.  We are losing valuable land assets to  our allies.  The only way it should ever happen, and I could see it happen on say 1 or 2 hexes for the whole server, is for one of our allies to decide to pump up one of our hexes that are at 1, and lose the mission, thus flipping the hex to the enemy.  Then they run another in it and win therefore taking the hex.

But when a row of hexes that we owned and had between 2-5 defences along it suddenly becomes pink, it bothered me.  I said nothing then, but now I see we have lost 2 more KEY asteroid hexes, taken from us by the same allies.  I personally took the effort to get some of the ones we lost, including the 2 latest.

Of the 6 known hexes we lost to them, 5 of them are Asteroids.  This is wrong.

Anyway, I said my piece, and we still are having fun online.  Just frustrating to see our own side break rules to take what we strategized and worked for.

[CaptJosh]

DFly, the rotting fur rules are about enemies doing this. AFAIK, there has never been a rule preventing allies from doing this. It's how points of supply in allied territory are usually gained. However, given your description of what appears to have happened, it is excessive and should be stopped immediately.

[Riskyllama]

actually since we're not technically allies, rotting fur in all cases is illegal this server.

[CaptJosh]

It might be more accurate to say that you're only technically allies, but still in competition with eachother.

[KBFLordKrueg]

DFly, the rotting fur rules are about enemies doing this. AFAIK, there has never been a rule preventing allies from doing this. It's how points of supply in allied territory are usually gained. However, given your description of what appears to have happened, it is excessive and should be stopped immediately.

Actually, Josh, check the rules.
Copied and pasted from them:
1) You MAY NOT Rot Fur at any time. If you do, your account will be banned. This
     INCLUDES losing missions on allied territory.
Proof of said accusations should be presented, tho, before pointing fingers...

[KBFLordKrueg]

And, BTW...when is the "Official" end time for KCW?

[Dfly]

DFly, the rotting fur rules are about enemies doing this. AFAIK, there has never been a rule preventing allies from doing this. It's how points of supply in allied territory are usually gained. However, given your description of what appears to have happened, it is excessive and should be stopped immediately.

Josh, please read the rules for this server:  Rule is as follows:

1) You MAY NOT Rot Fur at any time. If you do, your account will be banned. This
     INCLUDES losing missions on allied territory.

perhaps then you would not get caught with foot in mouth 

[FPF-DieHard]

And, BTW...when is the "Official" end time for KCW?

Um, ask Hexx?  He never gave me an end date

[Hexx]

3 week server- started Friday at.. 8pm Eastern? so ends this Friday at 8PM Eastern.

And is there proof that someone, uhmm rotted fur? (we really have to get a better name...)

[K'Hexx]

I'll testify that THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO  ROTTING FUR.


Dfly states in his above post:

Because House of Demons is losing key hexes to my "allies" when there is no possible way for the enemy to get there and take them.

ROTFLMAO!  "no possible way for the enemy to get there"  You Sir, underestimate the creativity of your foes.

Here is a look at that section of the map at one point of our Operation



I think this shows indisputably that there was no "rotting fur" and that Dfly joined Josh in placing his foot in his mouth.


I was involved in flippeing those hexes personally, I did it when players from your own house were online.   I left them at a low DV because I wanted another house to take them that I saw as less of a threat because those hexes were in a map position I could not defend with my own houses map position and poor player turnout.  It is called STRATEGY.  I an not "allied" to the House of Demons on the map.  I am an enemy.  I took the hexes. THERE WAS NO ROTTING FUR.  I simply used my brain to devise a strategy to achieve what mindless PvP battling on the front with inferior numbers could not do.  Why not consider that your enemy's might have been clever rather than your allies dishonorable.  I would think that by this time the obvious response would have been "Chuut you Bastard!" rather than any accusations about the honor of others.


ACCUSATIONS LIKE THIS AGAINST HONORABLE PLAYERS IS DISGUSTING.  If you look at the membership of House Kinshaya you will see some of the players most reknown for honor in their ranks.  Use your common sense  and not your emotions on these things.  If you look at their player list it should be a no brainer that they did not "rot fur".  I expected better from the House of Demons, I am disappointed at this behavior.
I did the same thing to KBF holdings earlier in the server, deepstriking much further  and I tip my hat to them for having the sense not to make any such public accusations.

I suggest Dfly on behalf of the House of Demons issue a public apology to House Kinshaya for his implied "rotting fur" accusation.

Things like this BS make me consider leaving the game.  I don't need to be playing a game where such accusations are made.  I can understand temporary frustration and forgive an emotional response provided an apology is issued, and hope that a lesson is learned.  I have high regard of Dfly and the pilots in his house so I reasonably certain that the apology will be made and do not wish my statements to be taken as an accusation against their honor, but rather as an expression of my intense dislike of making such implications without knowledge of the facts.  This could have been handled better by PMs to the house leaders of our side asking if we had been involved in taking those hexes rahter than a public statement that questioned the honor of House Kinshaya and its pilots.

P.S.  only 5 of the 6 were flipped by me, the sixth (32, 7) was already neutral and I believe it had never been taken by any house since the server start.  If you have any screenshots depicting otherwise please post them, but I do know it was neutral at the time of my flipping the others.

[K'Hexx]

DFly, the rotting fur rules are about enemies doing this. AFAIK, there has never been a rule preventing allies from doing this. It's how points of supply in allied territory are usually gained. However, given your description of what appears to have happened, it is excessive and should be stopped immediately.

Actually, Josh, check the rules.
Copied and pasted from them:
1) You MAY NOT Rot Fur at any time. If you do, your account will be banned. This
     INCLUDES losing missions on allied territory.
Proof of said accusations should be presented, tho, before pointing fingers...

+1 for you LK for once again providing a good example of how things should be done.   

[Dfly]

Well thanks for the negative Karma, but I guess you figure I deserve it.  I had a pilot report to me they saw ISC pilots coming out of those hexes with those hexes suddenly being ISC.  Did the information I had at the time show that Rotting Fur had happened? Yes.  Did I proceed wrong? Yes. 

I should have tried to get a hold of the ISC guys and discuss it with them first.  MY BAD, but I am only human and it is my FIRST EVER try at leading a group for Dyna.  If all pilots got shot down for trying, there would be no one left. 

I however do appologize sincerely to the ISC house for anything I said or may have been taken as improper.  I hear what you said Chutt, but really do not like the way you said it.  I however wont give a neg for it.

[K'Hexx]

Well thanks for the negative Karma, but I guess you figure I deserve it.

Yes I do think you deserved it, but I'm sure you will do something to deserve a positive soon enugh to make p for it.

  I had a pilot report to me they saw ISC pilots coming out of those hexes with those hexes suddenly being ISC.  Did the information I had at the time show that Rotting Fur had happened? Yes. 

players misinterprete what they think they see all the time, I'm guilty of this myself from time to time.  Information can be false thats why you try and gather proof as an RM.  Your information suggested that it might have happened, not that it did.

Did I proceed wrong? Yes I should have tried to get a hold of the ISC guys and discuss it with them first.  MY BAD, but I am only human and it is my FIRST EVER try at leading a group for Dyna.  If all pilots got shot down for trying, there would be no one left. 

.

 Agreed, but as long as it was a learning experience it can be a good thing in the long term

I however do appologize sincerely to the ISC house for anything I said or may have been taken as improper

Thats all I asked

I hear what you said Chutt, but really do not like the way you said it.  I however wont give a neg for it.

I honestly did not like to have to say it at all Dfly, but it had to be said.  I figure it was better coming from someone who held you in high regard, than from someone who didn't.  Sometime it is a friends role to correct a freind when they do something wrong, I hope you take this as such a situation but if you no longer wish to consider me a friend thats your call.

You are a fine pilot and of good character, Like I posted above I was sure you'd make the right decision, but I just needed to emphasize to you how important it was to do so immediately and put this item to rest.  The strains of RMing I'm well aware of so if I pushed you a little hard I'm sorry but it is something I felt that must be done, it was done without malice of any sort hower.

[C-Los]

My Thanks Chuut Sir.... for straightening the above out !

The 1AF hasn't been on much lately due to a couple of members being sick as well as myself, plus I thought the server had ended last weekend. My Bad ! For not reading the forum more completely.

As to the above.... Myself and other fleet members took those hexes along with some Klingon ones that are sneaky friend had decided to flip Blue and we weren't about to leave them in enemy hands.

1AF would under know circumstances Rot Fur or break any server rules... FYI

Thanks again Chuut...  <S>

[Father Ted]

I'm just glancing at our roster for KCW. All veteran players. Collectively, I'd guesstimate we have about 60 years worth of experience on the D2. We all know what Rotting Fur is, and we don't do it. The entire reason for servers is to have fun playing a game we all love. If you can't win the server because of numbers, or the other side out-thought you, then c'est la guerre. But don't go blaming your misfortunes on us. We saw enemy space that was vulnerable and took advantage of it, just like you would.

I'm just saying, before you start hurling "All Feds cheat!" etc., etc., ad nauseum, look at our roster and tell me who was rotting fur? I know it wasn't the 1AF, and Thrain, Hooch, Julin and Patterson would rather outthink you. The rest, those who actually played, know the rules and abide by them. We win or lose depending on the hand dealt us, not by cheating.

[Mutilator]

I am not one to usually fan the fires,  however would like an explanation of how these six hexes went from Red Klink to the ISC Klink.  I do not see any way for enemy forces to get to these neb hexes, deep strike not likely as this area is at least 13 to 14 hexes away from nearest enemy space.

I take exception that Dfly is being painted in a negative light for calling people out on fair and honourable play, he is the House leader executing the wishes of his membership. Hexes in the north are certainly understandable after Chuuts explanation, however at the time we did see a lot of hexes in the south turn ISC purple and general feeling was "great there they go again." Dfly also posted on our boards that this was wrong and even if it appears to have happened no members of the House of Demon was to do the same thing, as things do not always appear as they do. With that said he still did raise the issue as requested. 

Only way for what happened from our point of view was that pilots lost missions in these hexes and not just one or two. If this seems a little behind the times I have been busy with RL stuff and only just came across this.

For Dfly you did exactly what your membership asked you to do. You lead our house with honour Sir. (plus Karma for you ++)

This maps below shows Demons tactics from Jan 24 (top) and the end map (bottom). I only request an explanation as I do not understand how this happened otherwise.

[KBFLordKrueg]

It has already been confirmed that Chutt the deep-striking bastage flipped those hexes you question, Mutt. I too, questioned it, even fired off a PM to Julin, then read our House forums and saw the report from one of our pilots on what had happened, and then had to send another PM apologizing for my intital outburst.
And, remember Chutt also posted screenshots showing the former Lyran hexes in the NE as Fed, then they also got flipped ISC.
So, I doubt very much anyone was "rotting fur" to flip allied hexes.

And, considering there is no proof of wrongdoing, and the server's now over anyway, I think we all need to just let it go and get over it.
Perhaps, if we'd of had more pilots on more often, the Deepstrikes could have been prevented, or at least taken care of rather than another House having to retake the hexes.

Stuff like this just creates animosity among our already small community, further convicing players to play something else rather than keep the game we all love to play alive. 

[ShadowLord]

Just gave out for first Karma ever to LK for that post -- speaks well of his wisdom --

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Here you go Mutt.  This should clear up any questions about whether I was there or not.

You will note the base at 20, 28 in blue possession as this was our kickoff point, the broken pink line to the bottom of the map where we crossed and the blue black hole and base in the Southeastern section of the map.  We flipped the asteroid hexes neutral which had been controlled by the KBF but which they had  left at 0 or 1 DV on our way to take the base and black hole, our primary objective.  we continued to cause what damage we could until the enemy arrived.  A few enemy red and gold pilots were on during a fair amount of our strike but we were undetected for quite a while, as they were focused on other sections of the map.  By the time we were actually ready to flip the base and blackhole blue they were gone, and only when the pink morning shift had arrived were our plans painted in our color.  We had maxed out the blackhole hex and base hex at this point and I was working the nebulas in a FWC I had bought at the new base, and cut off from my base by pink heavies so decided to work my way back through the nebulas. 

This strike was prior to the Northeast run, and made me relize the futility of running up high DVs on the hexes for that one, as we couldn't hold anything we took, but made me aware that we could influence which foe had possession of them, so we tried to deny possession to those houses with the larger numbers potentials and those who had the greater PvP VC totals.



I don't think anyone has previously deepstruck so far in a freighter, but all that cargo space full of beer makes the job more pleasant.  Even so we had run out by the time Khemarra and I got there, and were disappointed that the KBF had left no beer in the starbase fridge, only bloodwine. 

It was a Hydran pilot who taught me how fun deepstriking could be, and it was KBF pilots and the legend of a cetain Kzin who taught me how to do it for greatest effect.  Hats off to Freedom, Sockfoot, Khemaraa, Mazeppa and the legend of Fantric for being good instructors whether they intended to be or not.

P.S.  One big difference on the D2 as oppossed to GSA ladder leagues is that here we all tend to be allied to each other on one server or another, so we get to know the character of each other.  This allows us to have fewer questions about the honor of the pilots we are opposed to as those without honor have likely been already revealed and unmasked for what they were and chased off by the pilots who practice fairplay.  In Dyna play if someone practices any dishonorable behavior they can depend on being smacked down by the members of there own side and exposed for their improper behavior, and if opposing pilots have questions all they need do is contact the RMs for resolution of the matter.  The RMs can discuss the issue in private with their counterpart on the other side and determine what has happened to the best of their knowledge and ability.  This works much better than public accusations or behind the scenes conspiracy theory.

[KBFLordKrueg]

This strike was prior to the Northeast run, and made me relize the futility of running up high DVs on the hexes for that one, as we couldn't hold anything we took, but made me aware that we could influence which foe had possession of them, so we tried to deny possession to those houses with the larger numbers potentials and those who had the greater PvP VC totals.

And, so you took them from us...why...? 

[Mutilator]

Thanks for all the clarifications Chuut. Apologies to anyone that may have been offended.

Our, well at least my perception from that corner was "dirty furr" or whatever you call it had happened. At any rate your tactic certainly kept us keeping more of an eye on our ISC allies at times and probably prevented us working more closely with them.  Was more probable that we did not play at the same times that they did.

Again my main reason for posting on this in the first place was because of the slant taken against Dfly, our RM. He only was following up on a request by his fleet mates. We raised the flag, as most of our fleet is relatively still new to the dyna ethos and etiquette and felt it unlikely that (now proven otherwise) that those hexes could be taken by enemy deepstrikers.

Again apologies for any hard feelings and I will attempt to get to know those pilots better in the future. As a PVP house the loss of hexes was really not an issue, the perception of us (red.gold.yellow.purple) feuding over space already taken by one of our houses  versus our ability to pull together and turn back the green and blue tide was.



"Our greatest glory is not never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Confucius

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

No worries Mutt, glad to be able to clarify, and apologies if I sounded harsh to Dfly.  It was his first experience as an RM and he did a helluva job I think, recruiting and motivating his troops.  I just wish he had privately discussed any question he had with his counterparts before posting what he had.  The whole thing could have been resolved in private.

If I overracted a bit, again I apologize, but it was done with the interest of the community at heart.  I know a false accusation can lead to irreparable damage to the community and was wishing to express the seriousness of such an issue rather than any personal attack against Dfly who has my respect.  If the "constructive criticism" was too strongly expressed that is my bad, but it did need to be posted in no uncertain terms IMHO.  Again wasn't my intent to offend, just to address the issue.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

felt it unlikely that (now proven otherwise) that those hexes could be taken by enemy deepstrikers.

After AOTK II you still doubt me? 

the perception of us (red.gold.yellow.purple) feuding over space already taken by one of our houses  versus our ability to pull together and turn back the green and blue tide was.

This was in actuallity a 7 sided server you must remember so only natural that each house was looking out for its own interests as well as that of the faction.  The way the VCs ended up working by mid-server it was apparant that only the PvP houses had a shot at the win and it bacame 2 sided for all purposes.  But before that fact had become clear, each house had to pusue its own goals.  On our side we were disadvantaged by having only 3 houses and a lower overall turnout (at least in my opinion) but had an advantage in that we had only 1 territorial house and that we were able to divide the PvP VCs and the map VCs pretty easily.  We had basically come to an unspoken agreement about this and a major goal of ours was to assure victory for one of our faction, of course we all wanted it to be our particular house.  We needed each other to win, we realized, and so we tried to not conflict with each other's interest.

When early in the server, the KBF made an aggressive, and very smart move to bolster their PvP VCs with a large number of map VCs in the Southeast, I saw this as a major threat.  I think the houses of your faction did as well.  The pink house being a territorial one was no doubt unhappy about their PvP house seizing what they must have felt were their map assests as a territorial house and the closest house to those areas.  With the KBF seizing these hexes and not running them up, I saw an opportunity to wreck havoc on the enemy, both on the map and in the psyche, and did so before those hexes could be brought up in defensive value. 

If the server had been a 2 sided affair, you side would have had no difficultty other than a mild annoyance.  But as it was a 7 sided affair at least at that time it became a competition.  Once the hexes were in pink hands I didn't have to return as their numbers were fewer and  the dominance of PvP VCs had been exposed by the mania of the first round bloodthirsty fighting.  I aslo sympathized with their lower player count and had no wish to demoarlize them by overunning their territory, especailly when I didn't need to get tied down by a war on that front with the KBF positioned to pounce in the Northwest.  Besides, at that point the territorial houses had basically been taken out of the running.

Also by doing this raid as well as the one in the Northeast, I sought to force your pilots off the front a bit as they realized that any valuable assets in their backyard would be targets and might fall to other houses of your faction unless the DVs were run up.  This would be a way to combat your player numbers, and to likely generate less co-operation between your houses.  This effect was achieved for a few days when we were able to make some serious gains on the front due to your division as well as the hard work and nutterish attitude of the KHH and a few others.  It didn't last long however, as these very gains seemed to trigger a realization that your houses needed each other and started working together closer than ever.  When I would log onto teamspeak and see your pilots all gathered on one channel rather than the individual house channels that I had previously seen, it was apparent that the level of co-operation among your faction had grown significntly. 

At this point I reassessed my strategy in view of your increased cooperation and the fact that the PvP VC's had proven to be unbeatable by a territorial house without the numbers of PvP pilots to bolster their VC total in a major way via challange matches. etc.  I knew that my house was basically out of contention and I fell back to the goal of helping our faction sans any aspirations for my house.  So what I did was to call in KHH pilots to reclaim any VC hexes that were taken from my house, doing the grunt work of running them down to neutral then passing the torch to the green to flip them, whenever possible.  After they flipped we would send the KHH back to the PvP front to earn more PvP VCs while we ran up the defensee of the now green VC  hexes.

Hope this help explain my strategies and how what seems to appear to be one thing can be something entirely different on the D2 as well as how strategy can be used to get such results playing within the context of the rules in an honorable fashion.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Well planned and executed, sir.
Your assessment of how things went is essentially correct. 

[KHH-MiniMe]

, he is the House leader executing the wishes of his membership.  

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense......anyone executing the wishes of his membership is a follower not a leader.

[Father Ted]

, he is the House leader executing the wishes of his membership.  

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense......anyone executing the wishes of his membership is a follower not a leader.

Ever tried running herd on a dozen cats running in different directions? That's what being an RM is all about. I filled in for one brief time on a server, and I'd rather be one of the cats than ever do that again. It's not easy, it's not fun, but it is thankless...

Fortunately, most races have found good ones: LK and Will for the Klinks, Julin for the ISC, and we've been lucky in our draw as we've had Jeff, Bach, Hooch, and now Wanderer. The one thing in common all of them have is a cool head and ability to adapt to the situation. They all adjust to what's happening, and react accordingly.

[Mutilator]

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense......anyone executing the wishes of his membership is a follower not a leader.

Just like the Klingon high council there is debate and dialog, in the House of Demons many things were debated and discussed over the server, the ultimate decision was the leaders to make. Dfly made and lead this house with nothing but honour and strong dedication to his house.

If a leader makes to many choices not supported by his followers he will quickly learn he has no one left to lead. In democracy our leaders go to their followers every four or five years to see if they still have that support.


"A good leader can't get too far ahead of his followers."
Franklin D. Roosevelt

[KHH-MiniMe]

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense......anyone executing the wishes of his membership is a follower not a leader.

Just like the Klingon high council there is debate and dialog, in the House of Demons many things were debated and discussed over the server, the ultimate decision was the leaders to make. Dfly made and lead this house with nothing but honour and strong dedication to his house.

If a leader makes to many choices not supported by his followers he will quickly learn he has no one left to lead. In democracy our leaders go to their followers every four or five years to see if they still have that support.


"A good leader can't get too far ahead of his followers."
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Thanks for making my point with the FDR quote...a good leader is also humble

FDR was WAY ahead of the isolationist Congress and scamed help to the Brits in the form of Lend Lease, but he had to do it in a political way....couldnt just shove it up Congress' a$$, he needed their help later. He had Congress pass legislation and share in the credit.....leadership

Let's just say for wackyness that the conspiracy theory was correct......what difference would it of made? Wouldn't the value of a couple of rock hexes be minimal compared to the distraction that it caused?

in my opinion you guys would have been better off with your focus on PvP rather than a couple stupid rock hexes

I'm kinda new to D2 forums and don't know the politics.....is something else at play here? Since the value of those hexes was of no matter to the server results

[Mutilator]

No, I do not think you are missing anything Mini. The rock or neb hexes never really matter as far as we were concerned, we did not even own them we were PVP house and that is where our main focus was. Our issue was it appeared to be something it wasn't and we have issue apologies for that. My reason for posting here was I wanted to show why or how we interpreted it that way and I wanted to stand up and be counted with my house leader. 

As far as Dfly's leadership he did a stellar job and I will gladly sign up to follow his leadership anytime. We had a large amount of first time dyna players in our house and thus a large learning curb among our players. When the "rotten furr" issue came up it was called into question by fleet members wondering what was up with it. We discussed it (Our perception)  Dfly made a post on it in our private forums then he decided to make a post here with the support of his membership.

Chuut suggested in private may have been the better solution for this however as new RM he is entitle to make a few mistakes. The one thing about Dfly that I have learnt quickly playing with and against him is he will not make the same mistake twice.

[KHH-MiniMe]

No, I do not think you are missing anything Mini. The rock or neb hexes never really matter as far as we were concerned, we did not even own them we were PVP house and that is where our main focus was. Our issue was it appeared to be something it wasn't and we have issue apologies for that. My reason for posting here was I wanted to show why or how we interpreted it that way and I wanted to stand up and be counted with my house leader. 

As far as Dfly's leadership he did a stellar job and I will gladly sign up to follow his leadership anytime. We had a large amount of first time dyna players in our house and thus a large learning curb among our players. When the "rotten furr" issue came up it was called into question by fleet members wondering what was up with it. We discussed it (Our perception)  Dfly made a post on it in our private forums then he decided to make a post here with the support of his membership.

Chuut suggested in private may have been the better solution for this however as new RM he is entitle to make a few mistakes. The one thing about Dfly that I have learnt quickly playing with and against him is he will not make the same mistake twice.

I don't have a problem with Dflys leadership.....thats none of my buisness. My issue was that of the leadership by committee concept....and the whole issue was kind of pointless to begin with...it's kinda like a partner in a marriage agruing about taking out the trash....that isn't usually what they're really argueing about

[Mutilator]

So what is your issue with leadership by committee?

Leadership comes in many forms and ones where one leader makes all the calls and decisions without consulting his or her constituents or fleetmates or peers seems doomed to failure and a little totalitarian... That style of leaderships may work for some but I perfer democratic process where we hold each other accountable.

One leader or Commanding Officer must make the ultimate decision. There should be an explanation of why the decision is being made (not always) and the lower ranking members will toe the line and support command, I see that everyday in the military.

Behind close doors I can grantee you the Commanding Officer will listen to his officers and crew, take what they say into account and then weigh the options prior to making a decision, and the CO will make the final decision if that is the definition of leadership by committee then so be it, I do not see it as a committee as much as a command triad.

As this is only a game I did not see anything over the server that was such a big deal that need an absolute decision by anyone. There are many levels of leadership that take place on a warship and if the CO had to make every decision the ship would never sail or if it did would not be a very efficient vessel. All the big decision will be made my the CO no doubt about that and it will be supported by the senior Officers, NCOs and lower deckers. Well that has been my experience during my first nineteen years of service.


PS SENS 3 FLYERS 2

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Chuut weighing in his 2 cents.

I think Dfly did a great job as RM, aside from the public posting of what I thought should be privately discussed amonst the RMs.

What Mini needs to realise is that most houses were composed of players who were not of the same fleet orientation, exceptions being the KBF and KHH houses.  In the other fleets you had groups of pilots who had not flown together as a unit and a more democratic style was required as noone woulf follow any leader blindly if they felt their ideas were not considered.  For the KBF and KHH this was not a big issue as you had tried and true leaders to guide you.  I think Dfly choose the appropriate stlye for the situation and as can be nshown by these last few post, he earned the respect of his pilots, that is a true sign of superior leadership that can be denied by noone. 

<Salutes Dfly>

[KHH-MiniMe]

I was applying the leadership by committee concept beyond this game.....I think it's a flawed concept.....similar feeling for a parliamentary system of govt.....I believe we have a damn good system ....strong central leader with checks and balances(Executive/Legislative/Judicial).

Even as of last night I was still hearing this conspiracy theory(I thought it was dead).....

Chutt.....This was Ducks first RM as well......and he had never led KHH before (OK...a technicality of sorts). We also had to balance players not from KHH......but that was a pretty easy job given the years of friendship with most of the guys that flew with KHH.....we've had good fair games against each other(GSA) and in this instance we ended up flying togeather.

We had alot of input on strategy from players....as Dax for instance....we asked him for help very early on...anyone that wanted to was listened to.

Whether the style was appropriate was none of my concern.....I think the last few posts show that his guys have his back.....but I think they felt that way long before KCW.

 I think Dfly is a great pilot and an asset to the community....and it's obvious that his guys have his back attesting to that.
KCW wouldn't have been what it was without him and Demons

Hey Mutt...we had to let the Sens win one...now they 1-2 vs Flyboys

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....thanks

[Dfly]

Thx all for the support.  I realize the hexes lost dont seem like a gamebreaker, but  here would be the difference had they stayed ours.

WE would have gained 50 points from our total

ISC would have been down 75 points from their total

In the whole of the campaing there would be no changes in the order of finishes.