Topic: New Battlestar Galactica Episodes are HERE

[Bonk]

Two comments:

1) iTunes is evil, pure evil. e.g.: http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,122937,00.asp

2) I just can't get into the new BattleStar Galactica its just too different from the original. Not even remotely related, kinda like SFC3 vs OP...

Bonk the kurmudgeon.

[EmeraldEdge]

I'm with ya Bonk.  I've tried a few times to get into the new BSG but I just can't.  I did get the original series on DVD for Christmas, though, and it had some very interesting stuff.  If it were made today, it would also be talked about as relating to 9/11.  I laughed when I watched the episode where they tried to take away power from Adama, because they didn't like his methods "and we haven't been attacked for sooooo long.  Surely we are safe now" type attitudes.  Then all of a sudden, where are they?  yep, the wishy washy politicians and diplomats walk right into the fire and who do they run to?  Yep, it's Adama.

I had forgotten how much the original series was an ongoing thing.  Stories building upon eachother, and such.  I wonder if they had continued, how much we would have seen Fred Astaire in the series?  Plus, it was good seeing those original Vipers, all dirty and battle worn.  The new ones just don't do them justice.  They are ok, I guess, but I like the old workhorses.

[Death_Merchant]

Interesting.....

I imagine no such thread would even be possible with the original BSG.

In the original, there was no moral ambiguity among the Colonial Warriors (Adama, Apollo, Starbuck, Tigh, etc.). They were simply good (Adama & Apollo = perfect, Starbuck = good rogue, Tigh = dimensionless good guy). The only potential troublemaker was Cain, and he was good-but simply too aggressive/reckless for Adama.

Contrast that with the new BGS.....

..and witness the arguing in this thread over the aspects of morality, torture, and executions in time of war.

This is EXACTLY why I like the new BSG, and why the original BSG now makes me fall asleep in my chair...


BTW Bonk: I've had exactly zero problems with iTunes. But then again, I run in on a Mac....
Ah ha! DM ID's your problem! Frakin' Cylon-virus-riddled PC !!!!

My Mac has Colonial Firewalls that are not targeted by Cylon (Microsoft) DLL's ! Plus: It's based on old 1984 tech, not networked with PC's, and has big-honking hand switches & submarine handsets!

[TheJudge]

EE, most of the Galactica's vipers are even more worn out than the original series' vipers (which were just the same shots shown over and over again in differing order).  


Now, as for Rat Boy's points...

There is a magnitude of difference between something like 9/11 and the Cylon invasion.  The colonials went from 12 billion to less than 50,000.  They are being chased by an enemy who has proven that they are 1) Intent on destroying them totally and 2) capable of doing so.

On 9/11, the worst day of this war on terror, we lost less than 3,000 out of over 290 million people.  Worst case scenarios of terrorist attacks, even with pre-9/11 watch levels, have a dirty bomb or similar going off in a major city.  The maximum amount of casualties for such an attack is less than a million (again out of 290 million).  With the backing of a nation-state (like maybe Iran), it might be possible for them to develop a biological agent that has a high mortality rate and a high air-borne infection rate, but in all reality we have a lot more likelihood of having the cylons attack our Earth before something like that happens.  So, the worst 'our' enemy can do to us is maybe hit a million people.  Certainly such an event would be tragic (and I daresay any who helped them achieve such an attack would be ground into dust by the full might of our nation), but it could never be enough to destroy our nation (unless we let them).  

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

On 9/11, the worst day of this war on terror, we lost less than 3,000 out of over 290 million people.  Worst case scenarios of terrorist attacks, even with pre-9/11 watch levels, have a dirty bomb or similar going off in a major city.  The maximum amount of casualties for such an attack is less than a million (again out of 290 million).  With the backing of a nation-state (like maybe Iran), it might be possible for them to develop a biological agent that has a high mortality rate and a high air-borne infection rate, but in all reality we have a lot more likelihood of having the cylons attack our Earth before something like that happens.  So, the worst 'our' enemy can do to us is maybe hit a million people.  Certainly such an event would be tragic (and I daresay any who helped them achieve such an attack would be ground into dust by the full might of our nation), but it could never be enough to destroy our nation (unless we let them). 

I would not be so blase about such a biological weapon being developed or even in existence..... in the contagion was persistant enough with a bit of an incubation period, it very well could wipe out a large portion of any populace targeted, possibly far beyond the range of desired effect of the group that launches it.

[TheJudge]

On 9/11, the worst day of this war on terror, we lost less than 3,000 out of over 290 million people.  Worst case scenarios of terrorist attacks, even with pre-9/11 watch levels, have a dirty bomb or similar going off in a major city.  The maximum amount of casualties for such an attack is less than a million (again out of 290 million).  With the backing of a nation-state (like maybe Iran), it might be possible for them to develop a biological agent that has a high mortality rate and a high air-borne infection rate, but in all reality we have a lot more likelihood of having the cylons attack our Earth before something like that happens.  So, the worst 'our' enemy can do to us is maybe hit a million people.  Certainly such an event would be tragic (and I daresay any who helped them achieve such an attack would be ground into dust by the full might of our nation), but it could never be enough to destroy our nation (unless we let them). 

I would not be so blase about such a biological weapon being developed or even in existence..... in the contagion was persistant enough with a bit of an incubation period, it very well could wipe out a large portion of any populace targeted, possibly far beyond the range of desired effect of the group that launches it.

Blase?  not really, but then it requires the support of a nation-state to make something like that, and facilities that can be tracked and monitored. Sure, some limited forms can be made in the back of a semi-trailer, but not the kind that's going to kill millions.  Creating a bug that kill with high mortality rates, and is easily spread by airborne pathogen is extremely difficult and requires resources not available to non-nations. 

if it were ever achieved, it would be awful, but we dont' even know if the US or Russia had achieved something like that...we just assume that they have.

[Sirgod]

Rat Boy, I think If you did what I did, you'ld like the show. I had to wait for SCI Fi to do a marathon, and seeing Them all in one afternoon, The show grew on me. Now I didn't care for the Rape story, But It did offer a Relationsip with the Viewer that you don't see on most TV shows these days.

Stephen

PS. Just got my mail today Dan, thanks again for the DVD's Bro.

[EmeraldEdge]

The vipers may be more worn out now in the new BSG, but they are different.  They altered it just enough that I like the older models better.  The turbine intakes on the new BSG vipers are kind of bean shaped, vs. the older round ones (how a bean shaped turbine works, I'm not sure ) and a few other things.  It's kind of like the difference between an old and a new car.  They are similar, and sure maybe sometimes the new ones are cool, but sometimes the old one is just too classic, and you miss the basic rugged lines.

DM, is there something wrong with good guys?  Especially when they represent us?  I'm not opposed to problems, but as much of the new BSG, a lot of the personal issues just seemed rather trumped up (poor acting helps this along) for the sake of having problems in a character.  Plus there is too much lame, corny, cliche sci-fi stuff in the new one for my taste.  Now, I can hear you saying "but, the old one was way more..." yeah, but it was a product of it's time.  I can excuse things in the viewing because of it.  I expect higher things of programs produced now, and I fully believe that a complex challenging sci-fi show could easily have been built around the structure of the old BSG and it's mythology.  Not only that, sometimes you need heroes.  Sometimes you just want to watch some "big damn heroes" kick some butt.  That's why I liked firefly.  They were heroes in the end, but they also had problems and issues.

I would also hardly say that the original BSG didn't have anything to discuss.  For it's time, it had a prostitute as a sympathetic main character.  There was the struggle between the more militaristic leaders and the career politicians, there was the whole angel thing.  Now, it had to be presented in a package that was broadcast material in 1978, but I just don't think you can say that there was nothing that could have been done with it and they had to just take the names and start from scratch. (btw, I think the cg cylons look rediculous)

I really wanted to like the new bsg, and I do give it a try every once in a while, but everytime I watch an episode I end up rolling my eyes at some lame plot point, or bad acting (although there are a couple of folks on there who are great actors), cheese ball effects, etc.  I sometimes wonder what show everyone else is watching.  But it's a personal taste thing I guess.  I'll probably go in trying it from time to time, just because I loved the original so much that I want more.  Such is life.

[Death_Merchant]

DM, is there something wrong with good guys?  Especially when they represent us? 

Not at all. I like a good "kick the bad guy's arse" show as much as the next guy. In fact, I loved the original BSG.

But that was what? 20 years ago? I'm just interested in something new & different. As you say, to each his own...

I would also hardly say that the original BSG didn't have anything to discuss.  For it's time, it had a prostitute as a sympathetic main character.  There was the struggle between the more militaristic leaders and the career politicians, there was the whole angel thing. 

True enough, and for its time the prostitute reference was edgy.  Unfortunately, other than some woman hissing at Cassie on a freighter in the pilot and some lines between her & Starbuck, this was not really explored. Richard Hatch is quoted as saying the show was intended to go darker if it had run longer. Perhaps. I doubt ABC would have wanted that.


My bottom line: I liked the original, I like the new.

[TheJudge]

Sometimes it's not enough to live...you also have to be worthy of living.



THAT is why this Battlestar Galactica is so much better than the first one...and why I believe it may earn a place in the pantheon of science fiction that might even eclipse Star Trek.  It is everything the original Star Trek was, and that the sequels to that great show never quite reached...

[Sirgod]

Let me just say, the assisination took me Completly by surprise.

Stephen

[Javora]

Let me just say, the assisination took me Completly by surprise.

Stephen

Yeah, I wasn't expecting that either which was sort of nice really.  Makes for a good season or two of plot lines.  It was a good episode.

[TheJudge]

Let me just say, the assisination took me Completly by surprise.

Stephen

Yeah, I wasn't expecting that either which was sort of nice really.  Makes for a good season or two of plot lines.  It was a good episode.

What I really enjoyed was that I didn't see the thing coming...at least from the direction that it came...oh and the KISS was most excellent.

[NJAntman]

Sometimes it's not enough to live...you also have to be worthy of living.



THAT is why this Battlestar Galactica is so much better than the first one...and why I believe it may earn a place in the pantheon of science fiction that might even eclipse Star Trek.  It is everything the original Star Trek was, and that the sequels to that great show never quite reached...

ACK!!! "might even eclipse Star Trek"!! Damn, your're gonna bring down a world of hurt on this thread!!


That aside, anyone else notice that none of the fleet seem to care or notice how much of a screw up Dr. Baltar is? He acts flakey. Screens the crew but misses cyclon Sharon? Allows Six to escape on his watch but doesn'e alert the Peagusus crew?

[Sirgod]

Let me just say, the assisination took me Completly by surprise.

Stephen

Yeah, I wasn't expecting that either which was sort of nice really.  Makes for a good season or two of plot lines.  It was a good episode.

What I really enjoyed was that I didn't see the thing coming...at least from the direction that it came...oh and the KISS was most excellent.

I noticed that also, and Adama was so Gentle also.

Stephen

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

augh!!!  I really need to get a new job.... one that gives me Friday evenings off so I can watch BSG without having everyone tell me about it first!!

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Funny it'd be you of all people who'd come to that conclusion.  How is it that murder without a fair hearing of a prisoner of war somehow is better than abuse?

Spies and saboteurs don't get fair hearings.  Summary execution of a spy or saboteour (i.e. anyone operating on behalf of the enemy and not in a uniform) is perfectly acceptable under the rules of war.   The president was A-OK to do this, at least according to our present-world rules of war.

As an often used example, after WWII we weren't even allowed to punish Nazis who had done this to US/UK agents during the war.

The real moral question of these episodes comes when Helo reminds the Pegasus XO that the man who died was preparing to rape a female prisoner.  The XO replied, "How can you rape a machine?"

There is the real question for you.   Regardless of what she's done or what she might do, Is Boomer anything more than a machine?  Does she deserve any sort of protections?

-S'Cipio

[TheJudge]

Funny it'd be you of all people who'd come to that conclusion.  How is it that murder without a fair hearing of a prisoner of war somehow is better than abuse?

Spies and saboteurs don't get fair hearings.  Summary execution of a spy or saboteour (i.e. anyone operating on behalf of the enemy and not in a uniform) is perfectly acceptable under the rules of war.   The president was A-OK to do this, at least according to our present-world rules of war.

As an often used example, after WWII we weren't even allowed to punish Nazis who had done this to US/UK agents during the war.

The real moral question of these episodes comes when Helo reminds the Pegasus XO that the man who died was preparing to rape a female prisoner.  The XO replied, "How can you rape a machine?"

There is the real question for you.   Regardless of what she's done or what she might do, Is Boomer anything more than a machine?  Does she deserve any sort of protections?

-S'Cipio

This point is so much the core of what I love about the series.  It inspires debate, it forces questioning of values, of determing for ourselves, as the viewers, what is right and what is wrong.  This series is doing exactly what the original star trek did...forcing us to look at the issues of today through the lens of excellent story telling and confronting our beliefs and our actions.

That is what the best science fiction has always done.

[Sarek]

Sometimes it's not enough to live...you also have to be worthy of living.



THAT is why this Battlestar Galactica is so much better than the first one...and why I believe it may earn a place in the pantheon of science fiction that might even eclipse Star Trek.  It is everything the original Star Trek was, and that the sequels to that great show never quite reached...

ACK!!! "might even eclipse Star Trek"!! Damn, your're gonna bring down a world of hurt on this thread!!


That aside, anyone else notice that none of the fleet seem to care or notice how much of a screw up Dr. Baltar is? He acts flakey. Screens the crew but misses cyclon Sharon? Allows Six to escape on his watch but doesn'e alert the Peagusus crew?

From the looks of President Roslin, it won't be long before Baltar becomes Commander-in-Chief.  I expect martial law to be declared soon after. 

[TheJudge]

One other thing about this last episode...the huge battle scene was played down by the knowledge of what MIGHT take place after the battle is over, and of course by Apollo's EVA experience, but it was extremely well done.  Seeing two Battlestars blasting away at a Base Star until it started to blow up while the 2nd Base Star maneuvered in for a shot at Pegasus was just fantastic.  Then the way the fighters attacked the Resurrection ship was just a wonderful sight to see...all those cylon bodies going out the shattered plexiglass windows was amazing. 

The whole 'combat' feel is so different from Star Trek that it is a joy to watch...