Topic: Why did Anakin Turn so quickly?

[OlBuzzard]

Yes, this was the biggest let down of the film. We all knew in advance that Anakin was going to turn to the Darkside, and SW3 was supposed to show us exactly how that was done. Instead, I had the feeling that it was just... "there"... one moment Anakin is a Jedi, the next he becomes a Sith, because thats how it was supposed to happen. There wasn't enough 'psychological' credibility for Anakin's transformation to make it believable and it really needed more.

Bingo ....

that was why I suggested that if Anakin had not know who the Sith was ...   (and the other Jedi discover the truth) ..  sense that his close friend was in danger ..  rush to his side ... only to see a fellow Jedi about to put him death..

AS it has already been pointed out ...   Anakin was concerned about how the Jedi were treating him.

It was, however, kind of rediculous to have ALREADY made a conscious decision to turn against Palpatine, turn him over the the Jedi council ....  ok stop here.

Rational or not ..   at this point  someone took a wrong turn at Albuquerque  ...  or did a REALLY bad job of selling this "transformation" .. 

Now you see him  ( Jedi Knight extradinare ..) ....  now you don't.  Anakin turns to a follower of the "boogie man"

Dont laugh ...  it makes just about as much sense.

[Hexx]

The idea isn't that he just turns, it's that he has had his prophetic dream about Padme
He cares more about Padme than being a Jedi.
He realizes that the Jedi will do nothing to save padme, nor really help him as they believe she is
"returning to the force"
Palapatin has previously suggested that the Sith may be able to defeat death, that Palapatine may be able to save her.
He realizes that
A) the Jedi council isn't going to let him happily talk to a Sith lord
B) Windu is in a postion to "kill" the Emperor

His last line before he attakcs Windu isn't
"I love the chancellor","I love the dark side " or "jedi biatches suxxor"
It's "I need him"

The Sith might be able to helpo him save Padme
The Jedi will not.

It's as easy as that.

Lucas really has no ability to write any kind of scene with actual emotional attachement, but (again) it seems
fairly obvious he's trying to show that Anakin wants Padme more than he wants to be a Jedi.
 

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

The idea isn't that he just turns, it's that he has had his prophetic dream about Padme
He cares more about Padme than being a Jedi.
He realizes that the Jedi will do nothing to save padme, nor really help him as they believe she is
"returning to the force"
Palapatin has previously suggested that the Sith may be able to defeat death, that Palapatine may be able to save her.
He realizes that
A) the Jedi council isn't going to let him happily talk to a Sith lord
B) Windu is in a postion to "kill" the Emperor

His last line before he attakcs Windu isn't
"I love the chancellor","I love the dark side " or "jedi biatches suxxor"
It's "I need him"

The Sith might be able to helpo him save Padme
The Jedi will not.

It's as easy as that.

Lucas really has no ability to write any kind of scene with actual emotional attachement, but (again) it seems
fairly obvious he's trying to show that Anakin wants Padme more than he wants to be a Jedi.
 

Yes, this is the reason Lucas gave us for Anakin's transformation, but in my opinion, it is very weak. For a the character of a Jedi knoght (who is portrayed to be a very upstanding ethically motivated member of the community, the elite of what is good) to be swayed so easily simply by becoming willing to sacrifice all to save what can only be described as a selfish and immature emotional reaction to the percived loss of a loved one seems to be just too simple and unbeliavable. For Anakin to behave in the fashion he did, he must be absolutely obssessed with Padme to the point of neuroticism. His actions after his 'tansformation' are not unlike that of a sociopath, yet there is no character development that alludes to this at all, hence the psychological incredibility.

[762_XC]

Actually Tracey I think him losing his mother develops that somewhat. I agree that the transition was weak but if you keep that in mind it helps put it into context.

Consider the parallel - he had the same premonition/dream beforehand. His mother was the only thing dear to him when he lost her, and the same was true with regards to Padme.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

True, there are some plot items that attempt to establish some degree of emotional scarring, perhaps the book (which I havent read but have a copy of) does it better justice. More than likely though, giving realism to the psychology of Anakin was probably considered by Lucas to be too far off the track of what is essentially supposed to be a sci-fi action/drama movie whose market target audience is children as well as adults. Too cerebral for the kiddies.

[Hexx]

. For a the character of a Jedi knoght (who is portrayed to be a very upstanding ethically motivated member of the community, the elite of what is good) to be swayed so easily simply by becoming willing to sacrifice all to save what can only be described as a selfish and immature emotional reaction to the percived loss of a loved one seems to be just too simple and unbeliavable. For Anakin to behave in the fashion he did, he must be absolutely obssessed with Padme to the point of neuroticism. His actions after his 'tansformation' are not unlike that of a sociopath, yet there is no character development that alludes to this at all, hence the psychological incredibility.

An interesting point, but flawed
While it would be true of the stereotypical Jedi knight, Anakin never
demonstrates those qualities.
Anakin always says he wants to be a jedi knight, but he never actually seems to
demonstrate the dedication we've been lead to believe it takes.
Remove the first movie as it was simply so bad -
Clones
- he ignores orders, goes to find his mother
-he then slaughters the Tuskens he finds
- he lets his pride get in teh way and attacks Dooku one on one
- he has to be argued out of having the transport go back for padme
when she's knocked out of it
- after his recuperation he's married (I think-been a while) in secret

Revenge
- he still hasn't told anyone (including his mentor) that he's married/ involved
in a relationship with padme
- he executes Dooku, and doesn't tell anyone
- he complains to padme that he's better than the Jedi, but they still don't give him
what should be his.

At every juncture Anakin chooses Padme or hs pride over the "ethos" of the Jedi.

IMHO that's the reason I personally didn't like teh story as it was shown, never was
an actaul conflict for Anakin.
He chose Padme over the Jedi from the beginning.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Indeed, all true Hexx! The emotional immaturity of Anakin's character is developed reasonably consistently throughout the 2nd and 3rd films. Prone to fits of anger, impulsive, argumentative, inability to control emotion, all of which is consistent with being a teenger, but does that make him a murderer? Well, in this case, yes it does. The character of Anakin definetely has a black streak in him without Palpatine's manipulations, however, as you said yourself, Anakin WANTS to be a Jedi. The character of Anakin is portrayed as hating the Sith, wanting to destroy them. While his actions and methods may lead to the Darkside, as Lucas suggests, this hate grows as the storyline progresses, but is still always directed against the enemies of the Jedi. To turn and become that which he has been seeking destroy in just one scene is in this way contrary to the character's previous development.

[Lepton]

Just saw it again last night.  The turning seemed incredibly precipitous. And the little back-and-forths between sort-of-nice Anakin and nasty Anakin just seem silly and disjunct.  My perspective at this point is that he was highly unstable mentally, the genesis of which we do not see which is basically Lucas' oversight.  The fact that he was so wonky was largely ignored or permitted as he was the "chosen one".  Here's a problem though.  How do you deal with a padawan that is going wonky?  That doesn't occur in the movies so we have no idea.  Just stop the training?  What if he goes dark-side on you?  Seems a risky proposition all around to train someone in the ways of the Force.  It's all handled badly in the movie and Padame is pathetic.  Where is the woman who led her royal guard back to Naboo to take the palace and seize the Viceroy?  Not here.  "Oh, Anni, just hold me."  Wretch!!!  A mess through and through.

[762_XC]

Tracey hits the nail on the head. He becomes what he hates, and his path to it is not convincing.

[Hexx]

Actually I said (err I think I said)
Anakin SAYS he wants to be a jedi
He wants to be a jedi that is respected as being "the chosen one" he wants to be a jedi that
is allowed to be married to Padme.
He wants to be a jedi that is allowed to do whatever he wants.

At no time is it shown that he wants to be a jedi that is "one" with the force, that
He is never shown as hating the Sith, he (at the beginning) against the Sith because that's
what Jedi are. But put the alleged crimes of the Sith against possibly using that knowledge to save Padme
and it's no contest.

At no point in time during the movies is his concept of what it means to be a Jedi ever in balance with
what we're lead to believe a Jedi is or should be.
At no time during the movies is he ever shown to care more about the Jedi creed than about Padme.

He doesn't become what he hates- he never actually shows a hatred for the Sith during the movies,
He is against the Sith because that's what he understands a Jedi is supposed to be, but he never demonstrates or
suggests any real hatred for them.

The problem is- everyone was lead to believe that Anakin "fell" from being some kind of Jedi hero.
He never actually reached that high point to fall from.

His path is unconvincing because Luca (while a good idea guy) can't write it how it should have been written.
the book is (actually it is) much better- one fo the (very) few Star Wars novels I've liked.
Lucas (remember) is the guy who went back and had Greedo shoot first because he didn't like
the idea of Han shooting someone in cold blood. His ideas for what heros are come out of the 50's movies he watched.
Everything seems to be black or white to the guy, he has no idea how to do the literary shades of grey that
anything realistic actually requires.

[OlBuzzard]

Tracey hits the nail on the head. He becomes what he hates, and his path to it is not convincing.

Again ...  this is where the real rub is at.

It's not that what he has become is so repulsed, ( though it's obvious that it is repulsive ) ... but the manner in which it is developed that is left to be desired.


For him to be come what he hates (regardless of why ..  or what he hopes to achieve by doing so )  You simply do throw away the entire charactor that has been so carefully developed without giving more thought, and planning to the "straw that breaks the camels back".  There must be a more persuasive reason.

Yes I know all about his mother ..  and his bride....  ALL of it.

BUT again ....

for him to consciously choose to name the person who has been sought out by the Jedi ...  he has made more than just a simple "choice".  He already knows the stakes  ...  he knows what will happen.

The sudden waffling back and forth is weak at best ....  and as well as Pademe's once strong willed, eloquent leadership.  She is reduced to a whiny, indecisive, child-like charactor who when faced with death at the end says to Anakin:

"your breaking my heart" ....  (that's the best line Lucas could come up with)

I can see where Anakin (now turned to the dark side) ... would no longer show his compassion for her ...  strangely enough that  makes sense..

BUT the transformation to the "dark side" ...  was weak !  VERY weak !

[Dracho]

Being as Darth Vader eventually redeemed himself, saved his son, and killed the Emperor, I'd submit to you that perhaps the scene wasn't rushed.. perhaps the Emperor's belief that he had fully turned Anakin was rushed.

Obviously, Anakin didn't completely turn and in the struggle with Darth Vader, Anakin eventually won... it just took a really long time..

[762_XC]

I guess he just really hated kids in the meantime?

[Dracho]

I guess he just really hated kids in the meantime?

He wasn't much on Imperial officers either.  In fact, if you think about it, in the movies, Darth Vader killed more imperial commanders than he did rebels!   

[Fedman NCC-3758]

Why did Anakin turn so quickly?

Because this was the last film of the prequels.....

[Sirgod]

Why did Anakin turn so quickly?

Because this was the last film of the prequels.....

Evil for the Winn!!!

Stephen