Topic: Simple curious question: What's your favorite Star Trek era?

[Chris Johnson]

I've been curious... What setting of place and time in the Star Trek universe do you like?  If were able to live in any one of them, which would it be?  The time of "Warp 5 ships" pre-UFP days, where humans were getting the hang of space exploration? (I prefer SFM over Berman and Braga's take at Pre-TOS Trek, but that's just me and I wanted to be fair so I posted canonical eras.) Or the one where ships like the 1701-nil were sights to see by any citizen of the UFP or their neighbors?  Or a redress and modernization of such as we see huge threats looming towards Earth or peace between Klingons and the UFP at the end of an era?  Maybe you'd wish to be with the new generation of Starfleet officers on bigger and better ships such as the Nebula or Galaxy-class ships, or the small-yet-tough Defiant-class or the Sovereign-class, when encountering new allies and enemies?

Just a curiosity I've been wanting to know, about who prefers what era in Trek, basically.

[J. Carney]

TOS, for a few reasons.

1.) The cultures seem to be more richly written and more well thought out. TMP was similar, but the Klingons were a little too watered down by the end. By TNG, the sense of cultural individuality seemed to be replaced by the need to find a new 'bad guy' and character quality suffered.

2.) In TOS, it seems like everyone was shown as equal competing intrests. In TMP, the political comparison of Feds (USA) and Kingons (USSR/RUSSIA) got too realistic, and there started to be a distinct 'good guy, bad guy' feel- either you were Federation or a target drone of the week. By TNG, it was 'RESISTANCE IS FUTILE, YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.' The Federation had to rule, and that was that. Everyone else was just in the way.

3.) ALIEN BABE OF THE WEEK!!!

4.) LEGGY YEOMAN OF THE WEEK!!!

[E_Look]

TOS.

It was a more innocent time, no admirals with treaty violating experiments, admirals giving arms to one side of a dispute on a planet, like in TNG.  Besides, before the Borg, the Federation and Starfleet seemed unstoppable in the galaxy.

It was a time that was more of a true test, a more honest time- Klingons and Romulans still hated humans, Vulcans, the Federation,  Starfleet, and each other, unabated since they met each other a century ago.  Everyone's technology, just about, was still shaky enough that you had to have mucho guts and a few rocks in your head to sign up for anybody's Star Service, even the Federation's.  And, partly because of that I suppose, the Feds and Starfleet especially may have had a bit of bluster and a tough guy mien, but were still apprehensive of the known dangers and unknown ones, just below the surface.  Yet, as seen through James Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise, they were possessed of a singular altruism and determination to spread it; a good thing in my sight.  TMP was a continuation of this, but by then, they seemed a bit more cocky and the Klingons began to decline as a scary menace.

And, it was a more innocent time as I mentioned, and an apparently brighter era, unlike the time of DS9 and the Dominion War, infecting a whole race with a fatal disease so as to win the war (though I'd do it, too!).

I like it more than the pre-TOS age because in TOS time, at least the Federation was formed, even if it had to fight for its life a few times.  Pre-TOS is very cool, but there was no real UFP, which really is a neat thing.  Imagine, an interplanetary space state, of numerous and diverse "ethnicities" devoted to freedom and the good of the governed, not the governors, not only surviving, but thriving, even if threatened often from without.

And compared to post-TNG, again, absent the Borg, who's really to challenge the UFP and the now fully and irrevocably "integrated" and immensely resilient Starfleet?  It survived megahits from the said Borg only to be poised to destroy the Borg out of sheer grit, tenacity, and *Yankee* ingenuity.

(Sorry, J.; I couldn't resist!      )

[J. Carney]

*Yankee* ingenuity.

(Sorry, J.; I couldn't resist!      )

That's OK... Kirk was a Yankee... or at least from Iowa. Not sure if the Yankees want to claim them or not, though.

Of course, it took a good ol' Southron boy to keep them all in line and make sure that they knew that you have to put burbon in beans when you cook them.

[Mr_Tricorder]

TMP

In all fairness, this is the era we saw the least of and know the least of.  The Federation was growing and changing.  The territory close to the Federation had been pretty much mapped out at this point, so exploration was now becoming a secondary focus and the Federation could now "get down to business".  Starfleet started to look more like a military because they were moving from being the explorers of the Federation to the enforcers of the Federation.

True, the Klingons did seem to be weak and watered-down compared to the other eras, but the Klingon Empire was in decline, which happens to every major power at one time or another, and couldn't afford to be as hasty and arrogant as they were in TOS, though they were clearly having difficulty coming to grips with their weaker situation.  The Federation, in relation to the Klingons, was torn between whether they should extend the olive branch or take advantage of the Klingon's situation and bring this bloodfeud to it's natural conclusion.  I thought this played out very well in Star Trek VI, and so what if it looked too much like a USA/USSR relationship?  That's what it was supposed to be and can make for some very compelling stories.

Although, to be perfectly honest, the main reason that I like the TMP era the best is because it just looks cooler than all of the other eras.  I love the way TMP ships look.  They're elegant, functional, practical, and look like something that whould actually be built in the future.  They are in nearly every way in enhancement and improvement over the ships of TOS and don't over-incorporate the artistic curves and intricate shapes and protrusions common of TNG ships.  The TMP uniforms are my favorite.  TMP technology just looks more practical than TNG and more functional than TOS.

[Chris Johnson]

I thought about it for a while before I opened up this poll out of curiosity.  At the time I had some calming music on, bored, browsing the Movie-era section of the Star Trek section of Ship Schematics.net, and I began to ponder about it.  I never came up with a decision until a couple hours after I opened up this poll.

And as much as I like SFM's interpretation of Pre-TOS history, and as much as I like and appreciate most of TOS for what it is, I went with my childhood spirit and nostalgia, and I was a kid that grew up very shortly before Star Trek IV hit theatres and a year-and-a-half before TNG ever aired (though I believe my first memories were watching Season 3-on in Okinawa), and as a show was the era I grew up with and how I knew Star Trek's Milky Way Galaxy for what it is in TNG.

I also watched Star Trek movies too, I'm sure I only had or frequently watched (as a kid) the first and last one (Pre-late-1994) that was made.  I'm not sure about it, though I still watched the first one frequently throughout the 1990s as much as the other ST movies, and I enjoyed the eye-candy as a kid and the stories themselves later on growing up (except maybe most aspects of ST5 and some aspects of ST6 nowadays in life considering how it gone against GR's view of humans in the 23rd Century).  I always grew up citing Klingons as those ridged-head aliens, be it of deception or honor or what not, I wasn't as used to TOS-era Klingons, even though I've seen one or two TOS episodes as a little kid when I was first exposed to Star Trek.

I voted TMP.  Overall, the nostalgia I had for it, the aesthetics of TMP.  TNG a close second.  Just the aesthetics.  2270s was a neglected decade, so if I had a chance to live a decade over and over again in the Trek universe, I'd flip a coin between the 2270s and 2290s, the cookie part of the oreo sandwich cookies, only in my view the cream part is sandwiching the cookie part when it comes to the TMP-era.  I like the aesthetics of starships of the era, the Constitution-class (refit), the Excelsior-class (ST6 version), Spacedock, etc.  The burgandy red jackets and the rest of the more militaristic uniform looks cool, but I may go with the pyjama-ish uniforms everyone hated because I think they actually look appealing...

Although both TMP-era uniforms seem inconsistant when in-between TOS and TNG-era uniforms, I'd either go for them or maybe a slightly more consistant variant of either, like maybe some of Warped 9's ST: TMP uniform revisions to make them somewhat consistant yet nice-looking and close to what canon design had the uniforms as (but keep some sort of variance as the TOS uniforms have, if not even a bit more-so).

But mainly, I prefer TMP due to the aesthetics of the era, especially the beginning and end of those eras.  Not as mainly the spirit of it, which basically seems as a modernized TOS-era (I like the spirit of most Trek shows, I don't have an immediate preference to any as far as how that goes rather than an overall perspective.).  It's what I grew up with, what I grew up liking.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

TMP

In all fairness, this is the era we saw the least of and know the least of.  The Federation was growing and changing.  The territory close to the Federation had been pretty much mapped out at this point, so exploration was now becoming a secondary focus and the Federation could now "get down to business".  Starfleet started to look more like a military because they were moving from being the explorers of the Federation to the enforcers of the Federation.

True, the Klingons did seem to be weak and watered-down compared to the other eras, but the Klingon Empire was in decline, which happens to every major power at one time or another, and couldn't afford to be as hasty and arrogant as they were in TOS, though they were clearly having difficulty coming to grips with their weaker situation.  The Federation, in relation to the Klingons, was torn between whether they should extend the olive branch or take advantage of the Klingon's situation and bring this bloodfeud to it's natural conclusion.  I thought this played out very well in Star Trek VI, and so what if it looked too much like a USA/USSR relationship?  That's what it was supposed to be and can make for some very compelling stories.

Although, to be perfectly honest, the main reason that I like the TMP era the best is because it just looks cooler than all of the other eras.  I love the way TMP ships look.  They're elegant, functional, practical, and look like something that whould actually be built in the future.  They are in nearly every way in enhancement and improvement over the ships of TOS and don't over-incorporate the artistic curves and intricate shapes and protrusions common of TNG ships.  The TMP uniforms are my favorite.  TMP technology just looks more practical than TNG and more functional than TOS.

Right on! 

[ApolloMissions]

Definately TNG because everything is really hightech andthe starships have faster warp speeds.

[Commander La'ra]

TOS. 

There was no Starfleet looking over Kirk's shoulder at every turn...half the time they couldn't even talk to Starfleet and get a response in less than a day or two.

The Klingons, Romulans, etc, seemed honestly threatening.  There has never been an antagonist group as effective as the Klingons in Star Trek, and the simple reasons for that is that they were smart, ruthless, and mean.  They didn't need silly adaptive tech or time-travelling nonsense.

Sex existed.  Carney approves of the Yeoman of the week, but lots of people thought the girls in short skirts were cheesy.  Maybe they were, but ya' know, I'd rather have cheesy sex appeal tossed in than a universe where our heroes seem almost asexual, like in TNG.

This list could go on until my fingers fell off from typing, so I'll end it now.  The quick summation:  Trek has never been as good as TOS.

[KBF-Netman]

The age on innocence, when they boldly went where no-one had gone before,
before they got cocky and had an answer for everything and a weapon to go with it.
I really liked the Enterprise series and the theme song "Faith of the heart"

I grew up with TOS, I was only a kid, hell could break loose all around me but i would never notice, cause, I was there with Kirk on the bridge of the Enterprise, or beaming down with him to a strange planet.

I am real grateful I get to fly on GSA and on dynaverse with some of the best people who love SFC and the whole Star trek phenomenon.

 My favourite Star Trek ERA?   Well I would have to say TNO "The Next One"

[Bartok]

TOS/TMP for most of the reasons cited (Mr. Tricorder) et. al.

Aesthetics - plausability/reality of designs.  Phasers still looked like phasers not DUSTBUSTERS (TNG).  The universe still had corners to be explored - political tensions were believable.  As far as the Klingons go - I like the ridge heads I really do! but grew up with the original series (TOS - first syndicated reruns early-mid 70s), but....  as they evolved through the series the HeavyMetal glam quality and the EXTREME martial nature of their whole society to me seemed too over the top.   I mean, you'd almost think that to graduate grade school on Qo'nos you had to kill SOMEOME? 

In reality such a social structure would collapse on itself (IMHO).  TOS Klingons were more kniving more ruthless and not depicted as blindly blood lusting.  I think a great corrolary for what TOS Klingon society was like can be found in the TOS Mirror Mirror episode, basically what they (GR and writers) were trying to do IMHO.  And we had a nice Dyna campaign to boot

While I don't know as much of the pre-TOS stuff (SFB - General War Kzin and all that) I like it better than some of what was put forth in Enterprise.  While I liked the series A LOT, the time-travel facet + some other aspects (Xindi) seemed to advanced and actually belonging to the later eras.  One of the best parts of Enterprise imho was the Andorians and Vulcans.  Would've been great to see more of them and their society developed/brought to light.  (I'd love to see a mod Dyna campaign re-creating the Vulcan/Andorian War)

There's nothing weaker from writing/story standpoint than the episodes based on time-loops and let's not forget the ultra weak HOLODECK based episodes, those were mostly TNG.  Personally I don't think HOLODECKS should/would exist.  Despite the fact that everyone would be bopping a babe they could never meet, few real flesh interactions would occur (like Spock playing 3-D chess in TOS, and folks playing "cards" and talking) + the power needed etc. just seems conspicuously wasteful.

Two aspects of later series that were cool but that I'd love to see set in TOS/TMP era.

DS9 - Life onboard a base station starbase.  Allows for good character development yet still room for politics/intrigue and ship "excursions"
Voyager - Exploration/Separation.  What was it like in the early days when space (even with warp drives) was still VAST...

(Un)Related Notes:

BattleStar Galactica: Some of the best drama/storytelling and character development on TV today, hands down... 
Isaac Asimov - one of the best SciFi writers EVER!! (though he was prolific in many areas).  If you haven't read the Foundation Series, RUN don't walk to your nearest Library

Ok, I've ranted long enough - Loved folks responses!! Some of us are older farts and this question just really got me going

Cheers,

Bartok

[Commander Maxillius]

It was a toss-up for me since I like Pre-TOS and TMP about the same, but TMP wins out.

Why?

One word: EXCELSIOR.  That is one damn-sexy design!!

[Father Ted]

I honestly don't remember how I voted, but it would have to have been between TOS and TMP. TOS had a Wild West feel to it that DS9, Enterprise, and Voyager tried to emulate, but Kirk, Spock, and McCoy made the original more fun. By TMP, the Federation had matured to the point that, as others have said, Starfleet was less focused on exploration than being the velvet hammer that enforced policy with the Klingons and Romulans, plus I thought ST6 was an excellent analogy to the end of the Cold War. And TMP definitely had the coolest uniforms, although I like the old TOS ship mods (I'm an old SFB'er, sue me ).

That being said, each era has something to be said for it. Enterprise had some very good episodes, but the time travel thing just kind of ruined it for me. TNG had Q, and "The Best of Both Worlds, Parts I & II" which is probably the best episode in all of Trek. Voyager had the ep where they're all trapped in different roles on the holodeck, with Neelix as a drunk Klingon, and Robert Picardo as the hologram doctor was just funny. Finally, DS9 had a little of everything, once you snoozed through the first couple of seasons before it got good.

BTW: it's funny, but I understand it's actually a true story that the Roms were supposed to be the baddies in ST3:TSFS, until the National Enquirer got hold of the script, so they changed it to Klinks, thereby changing the entire future timeline of Trek. I have to give TNG credit for bringing the Romulan Empire back.

[J. Carney]

BTW: it's funny, but I understand it's actually a true story that the Roms were supposed to be the baddies in ST3:TSFS, until the National Enquirer got hold of the script, so they changed it to Klinks, thereby changing the entire future timeline of Trek. I have to give TNG credit for bringing the Romulan Empire back.

I heard that the official story was Kruge was supposed to steal a Romulan ship (the Bird of Prey, hence it's avian look) to disguise his identity while he tried to sieze Genesis form the Federation. This proved a little too complex and time consuming for the movie, so Kruge simply started the film in the BoP.


Oh, and TNG didn't revive the Romulans, it finally killed them. TNG took all the rhyme and reason for WHY Romulans acted the way they did and simply made them into bumbling schemers. Seriously... in a culture where people live for 200 years, do you think that a culture of people like the honorable duty-bound Romulan Commander played by Mark Leanord could have degenerated into a culture of Selas?

[E_Look]

*WARNING, WILL ROBINSON, OT!*

Simple CURIOUS question: you know who's coming to the big screen?!  You might go "bananas"!

[EmeraldEdge]

Preach on Brother Carney!  I had hoped that with Enterprise they would have finally tried to put thing right with the Romulans, but Nooooooo!   They just had to keep things going sour didn't they?

[J. Carney]

Preach on Brother Carney!  I had hoped that with Enterprise they would have finally tried to put thing right with the Romulans, but Nooooooo!   They just had to keep things going sour didn't they?

That was reason #2 that I refused to watch Enterprise.

Reason #1 was the fact that they just couldn't stick with the TOS timeline for the past and had to modify the way that the Federation formed. They couldn't deal with the way that things were supposed ot happen- the designs of the ships, the weapons they were supposed to carry, etc- they had to jazz it all up and insert obscene amounts of technobabble!

[Chris Johnson]

I never noticed a whole lot, but then as a former grew-up-with-TNG-in-Okinawa early-1990s kid, I know why.  Still, you have a valid point.  But if you ask me, I would've chosen to make the Klingon and Romulan cultures a bit more diverse.  Along with the honor parties on both homeworlds, you have your schemers and peacegoers and politics guys, etc...  Rather than have 'em only monoculture-esque.  perhaps make them appear so from time to time and maybe have it appear as a dominating group of Klinks/Roms and their specific culture dominating and oppressing others, or something...

That would be more appealing to me, and if Trek went forward and was more complex, right down to Kruge having a Romulan Bird of Prey.  I mean, should Earth be the only planet diverse with culture in Trek?

Edit: Here's a neat DITL.org Aritcle on this subject.

[J. Carney]

Well, the obvious answer is that Star Trek centers around one basic social group- the more martial, more driven members of a species... or of ANY species that is pictured on it. These are the 'go and do'ers, the ones that are brave enough to stand out on the edge of the limb and see if they can jump to the next tree over.

Naturally, they are going to have a similar M.O.- it the nature of their way of life.


As for 'racial diversity' in Trek aliens... WHY IS IT NECESSARY? Sure, you can have red-headed Vulcans, or Kilngons with really pale skin... but do you really need to?

Spock and T'pau were both very pale, T'pring and T'Pol were very deeply tanned. So, we could say that they are different races of Vulcan. And Let's not forget Tuvok... he and Spock probably aren't very closely related.

Likewise, perhaps the Klingons in TOS were form a different contenent than those seen later. They don't have the browridges, and since the Klingons draft crews from the same general area for a ship (like the Russian Army or a National Guard unit) you get a ship that is pretty much uni-racial in their cultures.




Trek CAN be viewed as having that kind of racial diversity, if you want to read that into it. I prefer to think of it this way- the fact that the other races are all the same is a way to point out that no matter how different HUMANS look, we are all the same species.

[EmeraldEdge]

That's was always the explanation for the difference between the TOS Klingons and TMP/TNG Klingons, was that the Klingons were a conquering race and had conquered many worlds.  The non-ridge heads were one of the more dominant 'aquisitions' of the Klingon empire and thus were allowed more freedom to command and crew a ship (rather than being slaves like so many others).  I think that would have made things a lot more interesting than trying to explain it through some sort of genetic engineering scheme. 

As far as the Romulans, well the ridges just don't make sense, and the Remans make even less sense.  I mean these guys come from a hot volcanic planet.  Even temperatures onboard an Earth vessel are cold to tolerable for them.  Now I could understand Romulus being Tropical why they might live there, but why would a group from a place like vulcan colonize a planet that one side constantly faces the sun and the other never does, thus making it so cold that nobody would really want to live there (let's not forget it's barren too) let alone somebody from a volcanic planet.  Then the visual transformations made no sense at all.  I believe what happened was someone said "Hey, let's have the vampire things as villains" and somebody else, who's name also starts with a B said "Yeah, that's great".

I also never liked the Vulcan reunification effort on Romulus thing.  I always hoped it was a plot, and that they had duped Spock somehow.  But even that I could accept over the ridges.  I mean, c'mon.  These people live so much longer than a human.  With that lifespan, how long do you think it would take for someone to "evolve" into having forehead ridges like that (topped with the hairdo, the ridges just look wrong).   One of the greatest things about Romulans was that they were almost indistinguishable from Vulcans.  You could have Romulan spies anywhere in Starfleet because of all the Vulcans.  Well, not anymore!   There's a bonehead move for you.

The one good thing to come out of TNG was the Warbird ship design (can't say I like the Romulan scout and other things, but that ship... Yipee).  Why they are so easily taken out though is a mystery isn't it?

Here's another question about diversity.  Just because we have diversity does that mean that every other race has to?  Just because we have people with darker skin, does that mean that the Vulcans have to as well?  Well, what about the Andorians then?  They have blue skin.  Are there purple skin and green skinned Andorians wandering around somewhere?

I think one of the object of Trek is to show the uniqueness of humanity, and how it can conquer against all else if we can overcome the demons within (and sometimes the demons save them as well).  To make every other race like humans detracts from what is supposed to make the Federation so great, and what makes it stand up against those other cultures who don't subscribe to their particular views.