Topic: Lawyers and stuff...

[KAT J'inn]

It's a work of future billing creation art.

 <sniff>

I'm a tad verklimpt right now.

<sniff>

[KBF-Crim]

It's a work of future billing creation art.

 <sniff>

I'm a tad verklimpt right now.

<sniff>

See...talk about money three times and who shows up?

A lawyer

[OlBuzzard]

It's a work of future billing creation art.

 <sniff>

I'm a tad verklimpt right now.

<sniff>

See...talk about money three times and who shows up?

A lawyer

 

I will say one thing for ya Crim and T'Kang  ...

this has to be one of the BEST threads on this subject we have seen without the usual pissing contest and flame throwing matches I've seen...

+1 for both of ya

The simple fact is and remains that reguardless of how partial, fond of the game or Trek we are ...  there are "rights" and legal matters to be considered before we can just jump in and do what ever we feel like.

Any time anyone ventures into this arena we must take the time to consider, and as much as possible understand the ramifications of the matter.  Even though there is dissagreement ..  what is legal .. and right ... is after all both "legal and right".  Yes it is often times a bit frustrating ... but:  "it is what it is".  Our best efforts are best spent working "with the system".

[KBF-Crim]

Well buzz...the SFC community is the only one I've ever been a part of...SFC is the only reason I'm even online at all...

I view it as a wonderous oasis in a desert of mediocrady....

I can't script...

I havent learned to model yet..

And I have little time to write...

So ..I do what I can do...

Volunteer around here and be an active and honorable player.

A small fish in a big and wonderous pond.

[KBF-Crim]

I was think of something along the lines of firefly myself...

[Magnum357]

I agree aswell.  If I ever get good at programming, I was thinking about making a Space Combat game and have it Modable if you want.  That probably would be the safest way to go if you don't want too upset 800 Ib gorillas.   

[T' Kang]

Magnum, I am not familiar with Creative Commons. I do know that, "I did it for free" never excuses responsibility-liability. Again, my interest initially was to follow up on requests by a few players to see if I could throw a SFC3 (or like) mod-server or licensed expansion together. I started by understanding the legal issues, and the contracts involved. An attorney knows this as due diligence. Did you do what you are supposed to, before there was a problem?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence

[NannerSlug]

Here's what bothers me about what you told me via msmessenger.. that if we put a model in our mod that we did not know was tinkered with or made by someone who used a hacked copy of 3ds- then we could have charges filed against us. This is outrageous. i have no clue who built what with what. If this is the case, then this and most other modding and modeling communities are in serious trouble.

That would mean if you kit bashed a model which was made by a pirated copy of 3ds or made a mod and included that model, then you could be criminally liable? this doesnt make sense, and to be frank really ticks me off because i DONT know what people used to build the models in my mod (as i am sure any other modders are out there).

j'inn - what say you?

[KBF MalaK]

Here's what bothers me about what you told me via msmessenger.. that if we put a model in our mod that we did not know was tinkered with or made by someone who used a hacked copy of 3ds- then we could have charges filed against us. This is outrageous. i have no clue who built what with what. If this is the case, then this and most other modding and modeling communities are in serious trouble.

That would mean if you kit bashed a model which was made by a pirated copy of 3ds or made a mod and included that model, then you could be criminally liable? this doesnt make sense, and to be frank really ticks me off because i DONT know what people used to build the models in my mod (as i am sure any other modders are out there).

j'inn - what say you?

How would one know if the design program was hacked from looking at the mod ?????

That makes NO sense

[KBF-Crim]

Here's what bothers me about what you told me via msmessenger.. that if we put a model in our mod that we did not know was tinkered with or made by someone who used a hacked copy of 3ds- then we could have charges filed against us. This is outrageous. i have no clue who built what with what. If this is the case, then this and most other modding and modeling communities are in serious trouble.

That would mean if you kit bashed a model which was made by a pirated copy of 3ds or made a mod and included that model, then you could be criminally liable? this doesnt make sense, and to be frank really ticks me off because i DONT know what people used to build the models in my mod (as i am sure any other modders are out there).

j'inn - what say you?

I think the due diligence on your part would be simply making sure the model is credited...

If the person submitting that credit lied to you.....I dont see how you could be held responsible...

[OlBuzzard]

Here's what bothers me about what you told me via msmessenger.. that if we put a model in our mod that we did not know was tinkered with or made by someone who used a hacked copy of 3ds- then we could have charges filed against us. This is outrageous. i have no clue who built what with what. If this is the case, then this and most other modding and modeling communities are in serious trouble.

That would mean if you kit bashed a model which was made by a pirated copy of 3ds or made a mod and included that model, then you could be criminally liable? this doesnt make sense, and to be frank really ticks me off because i DONT know what people used to build the models in my mod (as i am sure any other modders are out there).

j'inn - what say you?

I think the due diligence on your part would be simply making sure the model is credited...

If the person submitting that credit lied to you.....I dont see how you could be held responsible...

IMHO if every model folder had the correct info in them referring to the source as the responsible  "designer" if it was anything other than a stock model from (in this case) Taldren ...   the person responsible for the design would be held accountable.  Unless of course you knowingly deposited models in the MOD that you knew or suspected that the artist in question was infact using a "pirated" copy of (I'm guessing in this case)  3D studio max.  If you had such knowledge of person(s) doing this ..  then you are an accomplice of sorts in the distribution of their "illegal operation" or work.

(hehehe  don't you know J'inn is going to have a field day with this response.  But hey...  what the heck this is my best impersonation of a lawyer I can come up with)

 

[NannerSlug]

ill be blunt about this. to me it sounds silly. why would a prosecutor seek a criminal action against someone using a sign made in a hacked copy of illustrator or photoshop? the same applies here.

of course this is all assuming that the license number would be in the .mod format.

sorry folks, i just dont want to see my entire life go down the tubes because of some one using a hacked copy of 3ds. as for assuming - my personal guess is that there may be one or two legit modelers what use legit copies of 3ds. That is my personal guess and is not meant to get anyone upset.

does anyone know if your license number actually does reside inside 3ds.. personally, i think this whole issue should stay low. Crim said it best.. you dont want to anger the 800lb gorilla. if you wake it, they will smash everyone.

[OlBuzzard]

ill be blunt about this. to me it sounds silly. why would a prosecutor seek a criminal action against someone using a sign made in a hacked copy of illustrator or photoshop? the same applies here.

of course this is all assuming that the license number would be in the .mod format.

sorry folks, i just dont want to see my entire life go down the tubes because of some one using a hacked copy of 3ds. as for assuming - my personal guess is that there may be one or two legit modelers what use legit copies of 3ds. That is my personal guess and is not meant to get anyone upset.

does anyone know if your license number actually does reside inside 3ds.. personally, i think this whole issue should stay low. Crim said it best.. you dont want to anger the 800lb gorilla. if you wake it, they will smash everyone.

1.  FYI  I did give you a +1 earlier today ....   just because of the positive impact you have had on so much.

2.  If you have the proper notations to who acutally authored the models then you should be ok ( I would think).  Heck from what you are saying, if the person who did the USS Bass Master used that stuff  (and there are few copies with my name on the credits as it should be) ..  someone might want to throw my butt in the can over the same thing.

Just use your head.  It sounds to me like you are going thermal over nothing.  I'm certain that I know you well enough to know you don't have nor do you use such items. 

ALSO please note Nanner:  I am not on a crusade.  Please do not implicate that I am.  I DO, however, very strongly disapprove of the piracy of ANY computer programs.  It is theft ..  it is wrong.  It's that simple.

[NannerSlug]

I am sorta going thermal about it because I want to stay very far away from anything pirated and I can just see nothing good from the direction this might be going. I just do not know what people used to make the models with. There are appropriate acrediation so yeah, I am fine on that - but it just sounds like if you even use (or kit bashed) a model  made by a hacked piece of software you are in the soup - and that sounds just plain silly.

I hope you are right. Most of us who have created a mod more than likely did not ask "hey, did you use a hacked copy of 3DS, or a legit copy." It was more on the lines.. "Cool ship, could we use it?"

Anyways. Sorry, but I get concered when people start throwing around the term "criminal" just for using models in any gaming community.

Downloading and distributing Warez is somthing completely different than using somthing which you do not know what was made on.

[OlBuzzard]

I am sorta going thermal about it because I want to stay very far away from anything pirated and I can just see nothing good from the direction this might be going. I just do not know what people used to make the models with. There are appropriate acrediation so yeah, I am fine on that - but it just sounds like if you even use (or kit bashed) a model  made by a hacked piece of software you are in the soup - and that sounds just plain silly.

I hope you are right. Most of us who have created a mod more than likely did not ask "hey, did you use a hacked copy of 3DS, or a legit copy." It was more on the lines.. "Cool ship, could we use it?"

Anyways. Sorry, but I get concered when people start throwing around the term "criminal" just for using models in any gaming community.

Downloading and distributing Warez is somthing completely different than using somthing which you do not know what was made on.

BINGO !

I believe that the people I deal with here and now are above board as far as I know.  If they are doing something that is wrong I hope they stop and fix it.

You are also right that as a community that shares stuff with each other all the time we are all on the honor system.  None of us have the time to do all of the amount of work that is generated in here on our own.  That is why we try to work togeather.  ( At least that is my persperctive)

I also agree that throwing around such "accusations" can certainly cause a stir.  Please note:  I did not start this thread.  Also please note:  That no one suggested that you Nanner did anything that was illegal.  If any one did any sort of investigation at all they would know that you are unquestionably are of the highest integrity in the community...  barr none.  (That does not mean they love ya ..  just that you are above reproach as far as your charactor is concerned).

Any one worth 10 cents understand what you are saying ...

I also agree that for my part ...  the discussion on what has been done in the past is best left alone ..  and maybe we all just be a little more wise on how we do things.

[KBF-Crim]

Agreed...this is simply a discussion on what to avoid if someone wishes to avoid unforseen difficulties...

No one is finger pointing.

And it should not devolve into such...

[T' Kang]

Agreed...this is simply a discussion on what to avoid if someone wishes to avoid unforseen difficulties...

No one is finger pointing.

And it should not devolve into such...

BINGO !

I believe that the people I deal with here and now are above board as far as I know.  If they are doing something that is wrong I hope they stop and fix it.

You are also right that as a community that shares stuff with each other all the time we are all on the honor system.  None of us have the time to do all of the amount of work that is generated in here on our own.  That is why we try to work together.  ( At least that is my perspective)

I also agree that throwing around such "accusations" can certainly cause a stir.  Please note:  I did not start this thread.  Also please note:  That no one suggested that you Nanner did anything that was illegal.  If any one did any sort of investigation at all they would know that you are unquestionably are of the highest integrity in the community...  bar none.  (That does not mean they love ya ..  just that you are above reproach as far as your character is concerned).

Any one worth 10 cents understand what you are saying ...

I also agree that for my part ...  the discussion on what has been done in the past is best left alone ..  and maybe we all just be a little more wise on how we do things.

Nanner, Crim, OlBuzzard; I want to insure that the “community” knows that when I started this thread I did not want to cause a flame war, or cause a “hassle.” My opinion is that this is a community about helping, and looking out for one another. Opinions aside: the “reality” is that when there is a “problem,” especially when the 800lb gorilla’s thinks his bananas are missing, the one closest to the cage catches some “heat.” I do know that what “I think” will not count for much with an 800lb gorilla. I don’t know much, “laws” and “technology” changes daily. There are “practical” limitations on everything. I am not an attorney, so I consult with one as my due diligence.

[Cyberkada]

Not my direct interest or concern, but I wonder what the "laws" think of the Bab5 or BSG stuff modded for other games... Have you heard of any "conflicts?"

I havent heard a thing...B5 is a dead series...BSG would probably simply love the exposure at this point...

That attitude might change should someone approach them a serious offer to license a game based on their Intellectual property...

Even then...BSG as based on someone else's property...they just bought rights IIRC...

I know there is a B5 based table top game simular to SFB though....that company would probably be the best one to contact if someone wanted to do a game...

I also know that Cybercada was working on a B5 game....not sure he is wroking with anyone else or not...

Some companies view such things as free advertising so long as the Mods are respectful etc.....others...like paramount...religiously protect their intellectual property....

Its still in the pipeline... you should see how advanced shaders work wonders... I'm going through Mongoose Publishing... They have licensed pretty much most game material from Warner Bros.  for Babylon 5.

Maybe I best not convert the B5 stuff I have to MOD format...

[KBF-Crim]

Not my direct interest or concern, but I wonder what the "laws" think of the Bab5 or BSG stuff modded for other games... Have you heard of any "conflicts?"

I havent heard a thing...B5 is a dead series...BSG would probably simply love the exposure at this point...

That attitude might change should someone approach them a serious offer to license a game based on their Intellectual property...

Even then...BSG as based on someone else's property...they just bought rights IIRC...

I know there is a B5 based table top game simular to SFB though....that company would probably be the best one to contact if someone wanted to do a game...

I also know that Cybercada was working on a B5 game....not sure he is wroking with anyone else or not...

Some companies view such things as free advertising so long as the Mods are respectful etc.....others...like paramount...religiously protect their intellectual property....

Its still in the pipeline... you should see how advanced shaders work wonders... I'm going through Mongoose Publishing... They have licensed pretty much most game material from Warner Bros.  for Babylon 5.

Maybe I best not convert the B5 stuff I have to MOD format...

Awesome!

[Lord Schtupp]

So - who now owns the .mod format?