Topic: X2 ships in 4.0...

[Magnum357]

I understand that the guys that made 4.0 for OP really worked hard to get it a lot like SFB, but I must complain that these X2 ships are a bit overpowerful in 4.0.  I never got the X ships module for SFB, but are they exactly like this in SFB?  And the Hydrans have that G2 Phaser that is very powerful, but I thought G2 Phasers were basically PH2's that can fire 4 times?  It just seems that X2 ships in 4.0 have so many weapons that its very easy to have them too powerful. 

Any opinions on this?  I'm curious what other people think.

[Hexx]

No
The X2 ships are a complete Taldren creation
The SFB X ships can't be done in SFC as most of the SFB rules that
effect them can't be done in the D2

Most of the D2 players don't use the X2 ships on servers, there's been
 "standardized" SFB X ships in use for D2 servers, essentially being
slightly upgunned CC's with a 10-20% increase in power.
They're still more powerful than any CC, most have an advantage (if slight)
in facing BCH's.
But none have the ott firepower of the X2's

[Magnum357]

I see.  So some dynaverses don't even use X1 or X2 ships right?  The X1 ships in 4.0 I can understand, they should be more powerful then a CC of its race (as it would be a new Generation of Crusier) but these X2 ships make X1 ships seem like pushovers.  I think the 4.0 X2 ships need to be toned down some.  If X1 ships are mostly "upgunnded" and a little more power then Standard Crusiers, isn't it reasonable to make X2 ships an upgrade of the same perportion?  They just seem way too powerful to be an "upgunned" X1 ship.

[Hexx]

I think (but dont know for sure) that the X2 boats are used in GSA
I haven't seen them on a server in years.

Maybe half of the server campaigns include "our" Xships
-I'm not actually sure what 4.0's first gen Xships are- I think they have Xweapons?

None of the D2 Xships we regularly use have any Xweapons.
They're pretty much ported right from SFB SSD's, using normal Phaser 1's,
etc.

The X2 ships were just considered pointless as teh whole idea became run up
and alpha the other guy.

[Magnum357]

I play on GSA a lot and I can tell you X2 ships are used quite a bit.  They are prefered over BB's sometimes.  I don't have a problem with X1 boats because they seem pretty balanced, they are based on SFB specs, and a DN or other equivelent ships can defeat them. 

[Norsehound]

Officially in SFB... X2 ships don't exist. While SVC put out a small 'preview' thing in a captain's log somewhere, the heads at the Starfleet battles forum are trying to build thier own X2 to combat the Xorkellians. Clearly anything in SFC is NOT the X2 that's being developed, and as it's been written the X tech weapons in SFCOP don't exist officially in the SFB rules set.

A shame really. I Suppose it was just signs that Paramount's universe was invading the perfect balance of a SFC universe

[Magnum357]

So I take it that this "Preveiw" X2 ships in the Captians log didn't work out too well or something?  What was wrong with the X2 ships?  To powerful? 

[Norsehound]

I think so. I think the rules just became unworkable.

Since SFB should be Balanced, Steve Cole has said he wants X2 ships to be balanced out against X0 (general War) ships. Basicly, it should be the case that a squadron of heavy cruisers should take on an X2 ship of the same weight. This means a new phaser, some new systems, and the stance that they're balanced against other races and fair to play.

SVC has hidden in his closet of tricks a new agressor race- the Xorkellians. They will be the principle enemy of X2, but most of the 'fan development' going into X2 on the boards is made without any knowledge of what the Xorks do in terms of weapons and shielding. The only thing we know about them is that they have an explosive boost warp drive something or other.

In general though it seems the 'preview' X2 rules have been abandoned by SVC and the general community. Same thing with the Megaphaser- it's brought up now and then (especially in the case of the Tholains, who might be an all-phaser race), but the general opinion is not to use it I think. Not much disucssion going on in the X2 forums lately. More attention is on Federation Commander.

[Magnum357]

What is this "Mega Phaser" you are talking about?  I've never heard of that, and what was wrong with it?  I do agree with you, if these X2 SFB ships are anything similar to the 4.0 X2 ships, they really need adjustment.  I mean, if an XCA (or whatever you want to call it) is basically the same size (maybe a little bigger) then a CAI/CB or CX, then they would have a limit to how many weapons they can carry.  4.0 X2 ships have an ungodly ammount of Firepower, more like a BB then anything.

Where can I find discussion on X2 SFB?  I've been to the SFU message boards, but its kinda hard to find your way around the place.

[Norsehound]

It's located in the Proposals -> X files.

http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/23/2792.html?1131053986

The Mega phaser is a phaser I've heard about here and there... not sure if it's part of 'X2' or just X1, but it did exist and was considered for the various phaser proposals.

Right now, Ph-5 is the main phaser IIRC.

[RFA-Warchild]

hailz magnum...

Personnally i dont have a problem with the g'2's  Its a matter of how you combat them...even an xcf g2 cheeseboat can be easily reckoned with by a klink XCA...or a few different dreds/bb's. I dont really consider them cheese anymore.

[Austin]

G2 boats are easily defeated in a 1v1 match... no one will refute that. But the problem is when places in multiple times or even with other ships, they will be able to deal almost as much damage as a K-XCA in the 30+ ranges with very minimal charge. While this means nothing in a 1v1 because you can simply reinforce, it means in a 2v2 or a 3v3 that if you have a plasma boat, or Fed/Lyran bent on close combat, that hydran will basically dish out damage while keeping a safe distance.

Another flavor to the cheese is that, sure, the 2 or 1 ships engaging the 2 or 3 ships will die, but not without someone/two else dead/on the verge of dead, if played right. Many people consider this playing right to be a strategy, but it really isn't. You basically run. There is no refutting strategy to it. You run with G2 and only G2s on while your friends tank (this includes other X phasers off), constantly doing quadruple upon quadruple 20+ G2 fire. Why go 30+ when your friends are taking the damage, but keep that safe distance, because you won't increase much anyways. And if they are beginning to cripple, run into them, and bam. To top it off, they come with 6 fighters. The only way you can lose to a G2 Boat on a team battle is if they have G2 boats, or if your teammates are a little slow... or perhaps you are. No offense. And by this, I mean those that come with 4 G2s. Not the H-XCB or H-XCA or the Light Cruisers (although the LCs seem to do well, it is only on predictable opponants... pick up a STL or a Dread and see how you fare :-) )

In no way are the G2 Boats strong in 1v1... they are actually extremely weak in a 1v1... you can easily negate their firepower with reinforcements. But their power in teams is the rapid and nearly continuous *1 round per charge* shots of the G2... of course while your tanks keep their excess energy down with weapon fire. It hurts...

All in All, I would like to say G2s are balanced because of their easy defeat in a 1v1, but most people simply don't 1v1, so... it does become a problem. I know, I used duel H-XCFs in the last Tourney... It was utter ownage for us. I in no way consider that skill. My partner just said to do it, and I thought it would be hilarious. Anyways, I hope this helps, gl.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

G2 boats are easily defeated in a 1v1 match... no one will refute that. But the problem is when places in multiple times or even with other ships, they will be able to deal almost as much damage as a K-XCA in the 30+ ranges with very minimal charge. While this means nothing in a 1v1 because you can simply reinforce, it means in a 2v2 or a 3v3 that if you have a plasma boat, or Fed/Lyran bent on close combat, that hydran will basically dish out damage while keeping a safe distance.

Another flavor to the cheese is that, sure, the 2 or 1 ships engaging the 2 or 3 ships will die, but not without someone/two else dead/on the verge of dead, if played right. Many people consider this playing right to be a strategy, but it really isn't. You basically run. There is no refutting strategy to it. You run with G2 and only G2s on while your friends tank (this includes other X phasers off), constantly doing quadruple upon quadruple 20+ G2 fire. Why go 30+ when your friends are taking the damage, but keep that safe distance, because you won't increase much anyways. And if they are beginning to cripple, run into them, and bam. To top it off, they come with 6 fighters. The only way you can lose to a G2 Boat on a team battle is if they have G2 boats, or if your teammates are a little slow... or perhaps you are. No offense. And by this, I mean those that come with 4 G2s. Not the H-XCB or H-XCA or the Light Cruisers (although the LCs seem to do well, it is only on predictable opponants... pick up a STL or a Dread and see how you fare :-) )

In no way are the G2 Boats strong in 1v1... they are actually extremely weak in a 1v1... you can easily negate their firepower with reinforcements. But their power in teams is the rapid and nearly continuous *1 round per charge* shots of the G2... of course while your tanks keep their excess energy down with weapon fire. It hurts...

All in All, I would like to say G2s are balanced because of their easy defeat in a 1v1, but most people simply don't 1v1, so... it does become a problem. I know, I used duel H-XCFs in the last Tourney... It was utter ownage for us. I in no way consider that skill. My partner just said to do it, and I thought it would be hilarious. Anyways, I hope this helps, gl.

We are talking about G2 heavies correct?

At it's respective BPV  (140-150) I would say the XFF Hydran Frigates I in not  eays "easy" to beat.  The XFF is capable of doing 200 poits if damage on a close ein strike, the XFH can do about 90-100from range 4-6 and has a better power curve.

Spd 31 repel3, 6 ECCM  overloads, plus carrying TWO ww shuttles with a two shuttle firing rate what this ship (XFF) is capable of doing.  This isn't counting suicide overload that you can run without the high ECCM or repels.

Folks are playing war destroyers and x1 frigates at BPV's higher than what the hydran frigates plays.  So it's only weakness, relatively lower internals as a frigate, should not a be big problem for a decent pilot.