Topic: Server Poll

[FPF-DieHard]

2. Let's make a clarification here regarding PvP and the D2 campaigns - PvP is to the strategic aspect of winning the game via victory points and the like as a camel is to the ocean - they just don't work well together

I liked my "bear frucker" anology better . . .

[FPF-DieHard]

. . . but will make hex flippers have a whole lot less fun :-)

That is not the point.

[Father Ted]

So, lets say I take the DN and lose it as I rarely fly them. What then?

I am chastised for losing a capital ship and banned from play for the next hour...

I don't like the disengagement rule at all.

The arguement that it is exclusionary and favors nutters and aces is not out dated it is plain fact. It spoils the fun for more that it saves it.

Anyway, its silly for me to argue this any longer I've had my say, whether its been understood or not.

As somebody who's lost more than one DN on a server, I can safely say that once Die Hard takes his valium, the yelling on TS is hardly even noticeable anymore. He's really chilled out a lot since they upped his meds. Trust me...  

That being said, the point Crim and I are trying to make is that penalizing somebody in a MDC or D5D for losing their ship by kicking them out of the hex for only half as long as they would be barred for disengaging is no real penalty for a committed hex flipper. As soon as the yard pumps out another one, they'll just work another hex until the time limit expires. You could jack the prices through the roof for these ships, but then you'll be penalizing casual players, and each race has it's own hex flipper ranging from the Z-DF to G-MCC, and all points in between. Until SQL actually works, the disengagement rule, flawed though it may be, is the best option we have.

Skulls' Slot idea has great merit, and should be used more often. Also, I think Tool's suggestion of a radius around a hex should at least be tried.

[Hexx]

Although I admire and respect t00l as much as anyone else, the radius idea won't work
There will simply be too many arguments of who's out of what bucnh of hexes, plus
more stuff to keep track of.

I thought (to a degree) the hex around the planet (base?)  Dizzy implemented on SGO5 (or was it 6?)
worked OK, but hexes around an empty hex is just a crime against humanity.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

What about a map where the maximum DV is just 1 everywhere? One mission to flip the hex.

[Hexx]

What about a map where the maximum DV is just 1 everywhere? One mission to flip the hex.

...

I could flip the map myself overnight..
they'd all be at my mercy..

[FPF-DieHard]

Skulls' Slot idea has great merit, and should be used more often. Also, I think Tool's suggestion of a radius around a hex should at least be tried.

How about nothing bigger than a CCH?  On the whole server

[FPF-DieHard]

Although I admire and respect t00l as much as anyone else . . .

Oh man, where to start with this gem . . .

[KBF-Crim]

Its like this:

I can't count how many times I have been driven off a server by ONE DN pilot.

I'm happliy running missions in my CL (often with a wing), I get spotted. A DN and his wing come along and draft me, inevitably leaving my wing behind... I have to disengage or die.

Rinse and repeat until Bonk leaves the server in disgust as he can then only fly inconsequential PP building missions behind the lines.

It only takes ONE DN to eliminate dozens of CL pilots from play. (with a disengagement rule in effect)

It is just not right,

Ok...I'm gonna call you on that...name the pilot...and the server...

No one in his right mind...or in the coalition chain of command...is going to waste time chasing Bonk around the entire server map just to piss him off and have him leave the server......

Now...if you read my post above...I listed a break down of duties that appeal to "every" type of player...

I'll list them again: with a definition this time....

Hunter killer:   the aces....they specificly hunt the enemy CAPITOL ships that are worth VC's...casual players included...they dont mind sitting rock while you run a mission under them...

Rapid responce :  aces , average, and casual players online at the time who can drop what they are doing and move to face an enemy advance and tie them up..

Hex maintenence:  For casual players, noobs or people who simply dont like PvP for whatever reason..

Trench warfare: for people of any stripe who dont mind running endless missions on one hex or in one area

Harrassment, distractionary force:  aces, average ,casual, or even noobs.....this is the "hit em where they aint' mentality...this is often done before or during a major action to distract en ememy force and maybe pull players to the area...

NONE of these actions need be behind the lines....ALL are important to the over all effort to win a server...

And almost anyone can fill one or more of these rolls at any one time...

As I said...there SHOULD be something for every type of player to do on a server  SOMETHING WITH MEANING...if not...your team is doing something wrong...and you'll see players drop off due to a lack of moral...

If your team isnt sharing captiol ships amongs whom ever may wish to fly one....it's wrong...period.

If your having trouble ,getting run out of mission after mission...and no one wants to fly your wing and back you up OR give you the heavy iron to stand your ground...it's wrong...period..

[Hexx]

Again- and feel free to stop and acknowledge my brilliance here- we can ceratianly have a server with no disengagement penalty

I don't thin it will work for the majority, but don't see an issue with a serious one that turns in a free for all.
I think people get to uptight about trying something new(or old), server's usually only run 2-3 weeks so having no disengagement
penalty or (for exxample) having an Cap ship OOB that has finite number of ships is not the end of the D2 as we know it.

Now everyone stop arguing, and let's all get ready for the best server ever, KCW, which although it will have
a disengagement penalty, will also have a slot, and many many other ideas that I've stolen from more creative people.

[KBF-Crim]

So, lets say I take the DN and lose it as I rarely fly them. What then?

I am chastised for losing a capital ship and banned from play for the next hour...

Fly coalition..end of problem...any one that chastises you will get an ear full of crimmy...

I don't like the disengagement rule at all.

Fly outnumbered on a server...fly big iron....and watch your space melt around you...

The arguement that it is exclusionary and favors nutters and aces is not out dated it is plain fact. It spoils the fun for more that it saves it.

IMHO...you have not sucessfully made such an arguement...I have illustrated serveral ways to still have fun in a meaningful way and still be on the "front"...in spite of getting run out or even killed in a hex or two..

Anyway, its silly for me to argue this any longer I've had my say, whether its been understood or not.

I understand your point....I just disagree with it...

I also dissagree that PvP is meaningless in the D2 enviroment...such as 762 and DH have asserted...while I agree that it NOT the only factor in a victory..it is, none the less, a factor...*with the disengagement rule in place*...

The basic "rule set" of DV play has evolved over several years....frankly...we dont play ANY stock servewrs anymore at all...they all have rules that are over and above what the game can do or control....

There is a reason for this....

Some rules have driven players off....I fully aggree....

other rules have been the saving grace...and are the only reason ANYONE even bothers to play anymore...

The stock servers ALLWAYS where ruled by nutters....nothing but a race to the biggest ships...a BB fest where NO casual player even had a chance to compete...

At least now...a casual player can log in...run some missions...and actually effect how the war effort goes for his or her team...

[el-Karnak]

Some rules have driven players off....I fully aggree....

Y'all think rule changes here are bad for the playerbase. You have not seen nothing yet. Take a look at SWG. There have been 2 substantial game env. changes in 6 months to upgrade the combat play. Right now on the server I play on, there are 300 plus accounts being cancelled over it. SWG does not care, They just suck up more new players with new expansions tied into the latest SW movie release and give out 10 day trial accounts to replace the cranky old guard that leaves.  I have not really seen a lack of players on the server I play on. Just a lot of new players.

It's not very nice of SOE to the old guard, but that's business.

[KBF MalaK]

i REALLY hate the 'hex flipping thingy', so I'm gonna ask:
Is it possible to rig the server to allow a hex flip ONLY if won in a PvP match ?

I know it's a strech as you can have a DN sitting on a strategically important hex to 'hold' it , you could thus keep it prisoner allowing other hexxes to be DN free.

[el-Karnak]

i REALLY hate the 'hex flipping thingy', so I'm gonna ask:
Is it possible to rig the server to allow a hex flip ONLY if won in a PvP match ?

I know it's a strech as you can have a DN sitting on a strategically important hex to 'hold' it , you could thus keep it prisoner allowing other hexxes to be DN free.

It can be done. But, I don't think I would ever do that with EEK mission pack.

[KBF-Crim]

i REALLY hate the 'hex flipping thingy', so I'm gonna ask:
Is it possible to rig the server to allow a hex flip ONLY if won in a PvP match ?

I know it's a strech as you can have a DN sitting on a strategically important hex to 'hold' it , you could thus keep it prisoner allowing other hexxes to be DN free.

The other side of the coin is actually the problem bro....

If a team wanted to hold space.....all they have to do is stay out of those hexes and avoid the PvP battles....thus the hexes wont flip at all...

[Strat]

lol, then the other team could do the same, and it would remian a stalemate. 

At one point or another the teams would have to take the risk and fight battles in key areas or leave the server in a pause.

[KBF-Crim]

lol, then the other team could do the same, and it would remian a stalemate. 

At one point or another the teams would have to take the risk and fight battles in key areas or leave the server in a pause.

Not that anyone would do such a thing...but the way around that would be "rotting fur"...meet in a hex...lose a battle....rinse repeat...

[Dfly]

Hi Bonk.  I rarelly reply to your stuff as I feel you so command respect for your work done here but I have a question or comment on your words : 
"So, lets say I take the DN and lose it as I rarely fly them. What then?

I am chastised for losing a capital ship and banned from play for the next hour...

I don't like the disengagement rule at all.

The arguement that it is exclusionary and favors nutters and aces is not out dated it is plain fact. It spoils the fun for more that it saves it.

Anyway, its silly for me to argue this any longer I've had my say, whether its been understood or not."

Banned from play for the next hour?  You are not banned in any way.  you may not enter the hex you lost your DN in for 1/2 that time, or if it ran out, you are not allowed into that hex for 1 hour.  Did in any way you think you are banned for 1 hour from flying at all? or from flying another DN?  I hope not.  That one hex is the only hex you have no right to return to(unless using the 7 hex rule for planet-base).  all other 12000 hexes(more or less) you are allowed to fly in, which most of those belong to either enemy or neutral space.

I truly hope you are not chastised for losing your ship.  I have flown for both sides in the wars and some of it has been with CVA's, which I have actually lost one for the good guys, and was not chastised, even though it was my second campaign ever.  As for the coalition, i have never been chastised for losing a ship as they seem to do that quite well and often too. 

 Only disadvantage to the system I have seen is that it is really hard for the guy who flies maybe 5 hours a week to get anything bigger than a CA by the end of the campaign, unless he has lost absolutely no ships.    I would love to see ship costs, especially limited ships, dropped.  I would also love to see DNs and any big ships(BCH, etc) in limited numbers for the whole campaing.  ie: say only 3 total DN class ships allowed all server per side, only 5 BCH class ships allowed all server per side.  Each time you lose one, it is one less you may replace during server.    Numbers are up for adjustments as per how many, but I hope most get the idea.

[Dizzy]

Did in any way you think you are banned for 1 hour from flying at all? or from flying another DN?  I hope not. 

On my server he'd be banned from flying another DN for 12 hours.

[FPF-Wanderer]

Did in any way you think you are banned for 1 hour from flying at all? or from flying another DN?  I hope not. 

On my server he'd be banned from flying another DN for 12 hours.

<sigh>...is it really necessary to provoke people, bro?