Topic: Server Poll

[Bonk]

Much as I would like that last option you mentioned, it would be devilishly hard to implement. Especially with the connection issues some folks have.

Well Josh....there are plenty of other games that allow people to join battles and missions in progress....enter and leave areas etc....

the problem is how to synch it up...

The *heartbeat* codeing was supposed to do that....but I guess they never got around to it...

Alas....my kingdom for the scource code...

SFC is a "coordinated launch" game. "Peer-to-peer late entry" will not likely happen even if we do get the client source. Gamespy refuses to acknowledge the Dynaverse Gaming Association and will not provide us with an updated SDK. 

[KBF-Crim]

We have been over all of this a thousand times.

I hear ya...and here we are doing it again...I thought this was allready settled...

My suggestions to make the dreadnaught nutter aces happy:

- Eliminate the mirak as a race altogether (I'm perfectly fine with this).

HUH?...elimnate an entire race?

My reply would be your own words from below...:

"you'll find more reasons to exclude those who do not meet you standard of play from the fun of the Dynaverse."


What race would be next to "get the boot"?

- Play Romulan civil war every server, everbody in a sparrowhawk-L nothing else availabale... (I'm perfectly fine with this too)

Why play at all?

But I suspect nothing will satisfy the dreadnaught nutter aces short of a gamespy based campaign.

And WHO are the DN aces????????

How many are there even allowed on a server at one time anymore?????  3?...and they arent allowed to wing together at all...

You still missed the point I said above:

IMPORTANT NOTE: I have seen it said more than once that you might as well be playing the single player game. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The singleplayer game stops when you stop playing. The Dynaverse is a "Persistent Universe" first and foremost (and damn persistent at that, lol), anyway, it keeps running even if you are not there. Your actions have an effect that "persists". I think people need to remember this. It is a strategic game, not just a test of tactical prowess (though that is important too).

PvP DOES have an effect, if you cant see that, or it is not enough for you well I'm sorry.

And Ii told you....field a fleet a DN's for every player on your side...we'll field a fleet of FRIGATES....we will own your space...

How "realistic" is that bonk?

How long would you play after that senario?

I have been busting my ass for years to get SQL to work

And I know that everyone appreciates that...

even when I do, and we get sql missions tha shift the DV more for PvP

That would ok...but we need to test the heck out of it...

I bet you'll find more reasons to exclude those who do not meet you standard of play from the fun of the Dynaverse.

I'm not sure this was addressed to me or not...but I'll take it anyways...

ASK ANYONE...AND I MEAN ANYONE...IF I HAVE EVER ONCE IN ALL THESE YEARS SOUGHT TO EXCLUDE ONE SINGLE PLAYER FROM PLAYING THE EXACT STYLE OF PLAY THEY WISH.

Ask DieHard what I think of performance as a prerequisite for play... 

Why should I ?....he allready sknows how 'WE" feel about it....it stinks...and has NO place in a gaming community...period.

 

[KBF-Crim]

Much as I would like that last option you mentioned, it would be devilishly hard to implement. Especially with the connection issues some folks have.

Well Josh....there are plenty of other games that allow people to join battles and missions in progress....enter and leave areas etc....

the problem is how to synch it up...

The *heartbeat* codeing was supposed to do that....but I guess they never got around to it...

Alas....my kingdom for the scource code...

SFC is a "coordinated launch" game. "Peer-to-peer late entry" will not likely happen even if we do get the client source.

I know Bonk..."join mission" just has allways been a feature I wanted to see in SFC...

Gamespy refuses to acknowledge the Dynaverse Gaming Association and will not provide us with an updated SDK. 

!?!....why in the hell are they doing that?...GSA even hosts a few of our gaming related sites?

We should just start bugging the hell out of them....

[Bonk]

We have been over all of this a thousand times.

I hear ya...and here we are doing it again...I thought this was allready settled...

My suggestions to make the dreadnaught nutter aces happy:

- Eliminate the mirak as a race altogether (I'm perfectly fine with this).

HUH?...elimnate an entire race?

My reply would be your own words from below...:

"you'll find more reasons to exclude those who do not meet you standard of play from the fun of the Dynaverse."


What race would be next to "get the boot"?

- Play Romulan civil war every server, everbody in a sparrowhawk-L nothing else availabale... (I'm perfectly fine with this too)

Why play at all?

But I suspect nothing will satisfy the dreadnaught nutter aces short of a gamespy based campaign.

And WHO are the DN aces????????

How many are there even allowed on a server at one time anymore?????  3?...and they arent allowed to wing together at all...

You still missed the point I said above:

IMPORTANT NOTE: I have seen it said more than once that you might as well be playing the single player game. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The singleplayer game stops when you stop playing. The Dynaverse is a "Persistent Universe" first and foremost (and damn persistent at that, lol), anyway, it keeps running even if you are not there. Your actions have an effect that "persists". I think people need to remember this. It is a strategic game, not just a test of tactical prowess (though that is important too).

PvP DOES have an effect, if you cant see that, or it is not enough for you well I'm sorry.

And Ii told you....field a fleet a DN's for every player on your side...we'll field a fleet of FRIGATES....we will own your space...

How "realistic" is that bonk?

How long would you play after that senario?

I have been busting my ass for years to get SQL to work

And I know that everyone appreciates that...

even when I do, and we get sql missions tha shift the DV more for PvP

That would ok...but we need to test the heck out of it...

I bet you'll find more reasons to exclude those who do not meet you standard of play from the fun of the Dynaverse.

I'm not sure this was addressed to me or not...but I'll take it anyways...

ASK ANYONE...AND I MEAN ANYONE...IF I HAVE EVER ONCE IN ALL THESE YEARS SOUGHT TO EXCLUDE ONE SINGLE PLAYER FROM PLAYING THE EXACT STYLE OF PLAY THEY WISH.

Ask DieHard what I think of performance as a prerequisite for play... 

Why should I ?....he allready sknows how 'WE" feel about it....it stinks...and has NO place in a gaming community...period.

 

Its like this:

I can't count how many times I have been driven off a server by ONE DN pilot.

I'm happliy running missions in my CL (often with a wing), I get spotted. A DN and his wing come along and draft me, inevitably leaving my wing behind... I have to disengage or die.

Rinse and repeat until Bonk leaves the server in disgust as he can then only fly inconsequential PP building missions behind the lines.

It only takes ONE DN to eliminate dozens of CL pilots from play. (with a disengagement rule in effect)

It is just not right,

[762_XC]

That's why we have OOB. If you have a DN terrorizing your lines it's up to your side to get a DN to counter him. If such a thing is as prevalent as you say, whatever side you are playing on needs to coordinate their assets better.

Or, do what all the other flippers do, and work around him. Trust me, it's easy.

The way we have things structured now, DN's and BCH's are limited, and CC's are line PvP ships. Players can get any of the above if they wish PvP but if they do so, they have to resign themselves to having a very limited effect on the map relative to the hex flippers. It's a tradeoff - be bored while fighting endless PvAI missions (but have a positive effect), or have fun in PvP (but have a very limited effect).

Ideally PvP and PvAI should both have a similar effect on the map. Right now it's all about who can kill AI faster.

[el-Karnak]

Much as I would like that last option you mentioned, it would be devilishly hard to implement. Especially with the connection issues some folks have.

Well Josh....there are plenty of other games that allow people to join battles and missions in progress....enter and leave areas etc....

the problem is how to synch it up...

The *heartbeat* codeing was supposed to do that....but I guess they never got around to it...

Alas....my kingdom for the scource code...

Play SWG and/or EVE to see this feature in action.  You also have to pay to see it action too, though.

[el-Karnak]

We have been over all of this a thousand times.

I hear ya...and here we are doing it again...I thought this was allready settled...

My suggestions to make the dreadnaught nutter aces happy:

- Eliminate the mirak as a race altogether (I'm perfectly fine with this).

HUH?...elimnate an entire race?

My reply would be your own words from below...:

"you'll find more reasons to exclude those who do not meet you standard of play from the fun of the Dynaverse."


What race would be next to "get the boot"?

- Play Romulan civil war every server, everbody in a sparrowhawk-L nothing else availabale... (I'm perfectly fine with this too)

Why play at all?

But I suspect nothing will satisfy the dreadnaught nutter aces short of a gamespy based campaign.

And WHO are the DN aces????????

How many are there even allowed on a server at one time anymore?????  3?...and they arent allowed to wing together at all...

You still missed the point I said above:

IMPORTANT NOTE: I have seen it said more than once that you might as well be playing the single player game. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The singleplayer game stops when you stop playing. The Dynaverse is a "Persistent Universe" first and foremost (and damn persistent at that, lol), anyway, it keeps running even if you are not there. Your actions have an effect that "persists". I think people need to remember this. It is a strategic game, not just a test of tactical prowess (though that is important too).

PvP DOES have an effect, if you cant see that, or it is not enough for you well I'm sorry.

And Ii told you....field a fleet a DN's for every player on your side...we'll field a fleet of FRIGATES....we will own your space...

How "realistic" is that bonk?

How long would you play after that senario?

I have been busting my ass for years to get SQL to work

And I know that everyone appreciates that...

even when I do, and we get sql missions tha shift the DV more for PvP

That would ok...but we need to test the heck out of it...

I bet you'll find more reasons to exclude those who do not meet you standard of play from the fun of the Dynaverse.

I'm not sure this was addressed to me or not...but I'll take it anyways...

ASK ANYONE...AND I MEAN ANYONE...IF I HAVE EVER ONCE IN ALL THESE YEARS SOUGHT TO EXCLUDE ONE SINGLE PLAYER FROM PLAYING THE EXACT STYLE OF PLAY THEY WISH.

Ask DieHard what I think of performance as a prerequisite for play... 

Why should I ?....he allready sknows how 'WE" feel about it....it stinks...and has NO place in a gaming community...period.

 

Its like this:

I can't count how many times I have been driven off a server by ONE DN pilot.

I'm happliy running missions in my CL (often with a wing), I get spotted. A DN and his wing come along and draft me, inevitably leaving my wing behind... I have to disengage or die.

Rinse and repeat until Bonk leaves the server in disgust as he can then only fly inconsequential PP building missions behind the lines.

It only takes ONE DN to eliminate dozens of CL pilots from play. (with a disengagement rule in effect)

It is just not right,

If you are only going to fly CLs on the dyna, then you definitely need to fly ISC.

[Bonk]

That's why we have OOB. If you have a DN terrorizing your lines it's up to your side to get a DN to counter him. If such a thing is as prevalent as you say, whatever side you are playing on needs to coordinate their assets better.

This does not work for me. The DN pilot must sleep sometime. What if there is no DN on my side? The side with a DN wins by default?

<sigh> Throws hands in the air.

Fine, you all win. The disengagement rule is the be-all-end-all solution to all our problems... 

I think it is assinine, I don't like it and never will and you can't make me...   

The emphasis needs to placed on fun, not exclusionary competitiveness and organisational pressure - that's work, not play.

I will play on servers regardless, I guess I'll just stay behind the lines forever, it will be like you say, pretty much like playing the single player campaign. 

[GDA-Agave]

Bonk,

Over the past couple servers, the Big Capital Ships have been unassigned.   Anybody who had the cash could step up and take a shot at the DN chasing off all the CLs.   If you have 5 pilots on, you could have 5 capital ships on, they just couldn't fly together (by server rule).

Now, one way how that rule could be improved, we should lower the cost of the restricted capital ships by 50% (or more even) so that casual players could get into one if they wished.   As with SGO5, casual pilots had to risk their whole PP cache if they wanted to jump into a DN to stop the enemy.   Not everyone is willing to do that.  So, reducing the costs should help.   The restricted ships are usually listed in the rules, and even given special designations (sBCH) on some servers.   Easily identifiable, and able to be counted.


Note to 762:   PvP does matter, it just doesn't change the DV as quickly.  (I like the thoughts about PvP wins getting larger DV shifts.)  I think we've had a pretty good balance between PvP and hex-munching on the last few servers.   The pilot count for each side were just not balanced, IMHO.   Then again, they never are, and probably never will be.

[FPF-DieHard]

This does not work for me. The DN pilot must sleep sometime. What if there is no DN on my side? The side with a DN wins by default?

Then fly a DN, we haven't had a true OOB server in almost a year.

Your argument is out-dated.

[FPF-DieHard]

If you are only going to fly CLs on the dyna, then you definitely need to fly ISC.

You spelled "Fed" wrong 

[FPF-DieHard]

Note to 762:   PvP does matter, it just doesn't change the DV as quickly.  (I like the thoughts about PvP wins getting larger DV shifts.)  I think we've had a pretty good balance between PvP and hex-munching on the last few servers.   The pilot count for each side were just not balanced, IMHO.   Then again, they never are, and probably never will be.

PvP matters little on D2 other than for braggin rights (and funny screenshots). 

Trying to make PvP matter ina D2 is like trying to fruck an hungry bear, you can do it but it is too painful and just not worth the trouble.

The funniest part of this whole conversation is the believe that anything other than player numbers affects the outcome of a server.   Keep it going, it's entertaining.   

[Bonk]

So, lets say I take the DN and lose it as I rarely fly them. What then?

I am chastised for losing a capital ship and banned from play for the next hour...

I don't like the disengagement rule at all.

The arguement that it is exclusionary and favors nutters and aces is not out dated it is plain fact. It spoils the fun for more that it saves it.

Anyway, its silly for me to argue this any longer I've had my say, whether its been understood or not.

[el-Karnak]

This does not work for me. The DN pilot must sleep sometime. What if there is no DN on my side? The side with a DN wins by default?

<sigh> Throws hands in the air.

You definitely need to fly ISC CLs. You can take an I-CLY and kick the living crap out of a F-DN.  Although, if you run into a F-DNH, you will have ask DH to give you a I-CLZf and it won't be so easy.  

[762_XC]

Agave,

Try stopping a hex flipper with PvP. See how easy it is for him to work where you're not, and you'll see what I mean. Sure you may catch him once or twice, but there's always another important hex. He'll just work around you.

I've done it and had it done to me, and each time it reinforced the reality that PvP ultimately does not matter.

[FPF-DieHard]

Try stopping a hex flipper with PvP.

You can't

As the "DN ace" who everyone is taking veiled shots at, how much time did I spend on a Z-DWD on the last server doing waht t00l described?

that saiid, D2 ain't a PvP game.  Square peg, round hole.

[762_XC]

I got it

If people think the "radius idea" is too complicated, how bout if you disengage from a hex, you have to log off for an hour?

[Dizzy]

Anyway, its silly for me to argue this any longer I've had my say, whether its been understood or not.

Ok, I dont understand your position. Can you restate, plz? I havent followed this thread entirely, so feel free to elaborate and make it easy for me to understand, I'm not too bright. I'm very interested in this type stuff as my server rules have touched orff on a lot of these thingees.

[FA Frey XC]

Okay, 'ere's my take on this :

1. HELL YEA I'D FLY STORM SEASON III !!!

2. Let's make a clarification here regarding PvP and the D2 campaigns - PvP is to the strategic aspect of winning the game via victory points and the like as a camel is to the ocean - they just don't work well together

Now if a server had a map that was better for a PvP, and the campaign itself was geared more towards PvP - perhaps specific requirements for each round regarding a number of PvP matches, or something else, but my point is a "General War" style campaign is won by the hexes flipped.

Period.

So that's the real distinction, IMHO., and what would need to be worked on for a PvP campaign to be successful.

[KBF-maQmIgh]

Okay how about this for a way to fix this issue of hex flipping. Pull a page from the Cavedog days of TA. Each hex records the battles fought in it over the course of the day. In the end the race with the highest winning percentage gets the hex. Now this will limit hex movement to one level each day but will make hex flippers have a whole lot less fun :-)