Poll

Would You Play A "Storm Season III" Server ?

Yes
33 (100%)
No
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Topic: Server Poll  (Read 16543 times)

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el-Karnak

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2005, 12:09:18 pm »
Quote from: bonk
Yes, I remember and thought they were pretty dang cool!    Things are improving, I have relatively stably OP SQL servers running, You are the only other one who truly understands the mechanics of it, (Well except for maybe DarkElf and Karnak) come back to us please!!! 

I can vouch for GDA-Kel. When he had his EAW-SQL servers up, I consulted with him on a few things and he graciously gave me the code for that server.  I proof-read out his topology and it looks pretty sound. ;D

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2005, 12:11:41 pm »
I'm gonna do something outside the box. I'm going to agree with Karnak. The disengagement rule should be kept. If you Taco Bell, you lose an hour, or whatever, in the hex.

I have to agree.

If we must...

But there should be no disengagement rule if you are destroyed. I mean you lost your ship you worked hard to get, you are sent back to base, away from the action...


This is absolutely useless unless ships are really expensive.   It is no loss to loose a 500-2000 PP FF-CL ship if it means you can get in the hex quicker.

DNs have other restrictions, the X-amount works.   Don't break what is fixed.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2005, 12:15:09 pm »

Yes, I fully understand that and it is a cheap and ugly tactic,


How do you specificly ban this without a Disengament/destruction penalty?
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Strat

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2005, 12:23:02 pm »

Yes, I fully understand that and it is a cheap and ugly tactic,


How do you specificly ban this without a Disengament/destruction penalty?


The reason I ask is becuase I'm gathering (guess that's why you all have already put so much effert into the SQL Kit), the ths SQL is the real solution.

I don't really know what SQL is possible of accomplishing in this appliction other than what others have said. (Like making PvP DV shifts higher than PvAI)

Once you do that, you can riase the prices of ships becuase PvP is (hopefully as we came make it withthe math) equal or more vaulable than fighitng AIs.

But in principle I think the best bet for the SQL is automating the applictions of a bunch of these rules.

For example, again, I don't know if its possible, with the disengagment rule..  If a person runs from a battle or died, let the server enforce them not playting there  by not giving that person any missions to play in that hex.

The problem I see happening is this:  There get to be more and more rules rules rules.  Fine and great and everything, we need them.  But the more and more a person has to worry about the rules he loses fun beucase of so much worring he has to do about the rules!

what ever rules you make, make the SQL do as much as possible of enforceing it.

If we could just implement the DV shifting value of a PvP vs PvsAI I think that solves a lot. Just a matter of working a smaller set of kinks.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2005, 12:29:50 pm »
Agreed Strat, if SQL can set PvP to have a higher DV offset the Disengagment rule will no longer be needed.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


el-Karnak

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2005, 12:38:36 pm »
Thanks guys.

I'm just asking so I can help brain storm solutions.

What is 'The Slot' idea?

The slot is a zone on the map restricted to CLs and smaller so that casual players will not be driven off all the action zones by nutters in big ships.

You are gonna let a I-CLY run around the Slot in Middle Era? Or, a L-CWLP?

That's so cool.  ;D ;D

Offline GDA-Agave

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2005, 12:43:53 pm »
In my opinion, the disengagement rule works.  The biggest reason why I think this is because it gives underplayed races/sides a better chance to hold onto important strategic places.   If my race/side decides that planet Alpha must be held and we have half the number of pilots as our opponent, the disengagement rule gives us the opportunity to run off the enemy for a set period of time so we can reinforce the DVs or even attempt to take back some of the surrounding hexes.   This can be applied to assaults on breaking LOS, planets, bases, whatever.   It gives the underplayed race/side a chance to defend a given area with PvP instead of trying to match mission times (# of pilots) with their opponent.

That's it.   That's the main benefit IMHO.   You WILL NEVER stop the hex-munchers out in open space.   Hell, this one spot that you have decided to defend may be the only spot you have left in your empire!!!    ::)  That's the trade-off.   You either try to out-hex-munch your opponent or you make certain spots so f*ing dangerous for them to assault.   Isn't this the reason why most servers have been placing Victory points on planets, starbases, etc.   The admins are looking to promote highly contested areas where PvP, and only PvP will decide who ultimately keeps them.  Seems that way to me.   Of course, PvP defenders don't always succeed.   When one race/side has enough pilots to flip a hex while the defenders are still fighting their PvP missions, its a mute point.  Yer screwed!!   :o     Get over it, it's a game, you don't always win!!   8)

As for the specifics of the disengagement rule, I have always been a proponent of equal time penalty for both disengaging and ship loss.   It's the time period that is important here.  If you allow a pilot to have a reduced penalty because he got his ship killed, pilots who fly disposable hex-flipper ships don't really suffer any REAL penalty.  Yeah, yeah, I know.  If you lose your ship and have the full time period, some people think its a double hit.   You're right, but if you reduce the ship replacement penalty, maybe more pilots would f*ing get over it.    Replacement value 80% or higher of original.  If you lost a heavy cruiser in the mission, you most likely would get a lesser heavy cruiser in return.   The admins probably have a pretty good idea what percentage would help here.

Another point I have about pilots bitching about losing their ship and having a FULL disengagement time penalty, if you're so worried about losing that ship in a mission you should not have bought it in the shipyard.   GET OVER IT!   IT'S A GAME!!  THINGS DON'T ALWAYS GO THE WAY YOU WANT!!   8)

Final point.   As for everyone always mentioning the Kzinti FIRST as the one race that needs to have their hex-munching abilities restricted, ALL RACES HAVE HEX-MUNCHERS!!   I have flown every Starfleet race over the last year and a half, and I have found ships in every arsenal that I could fly AI missions in 2:00, give or take :10.   EVERY RACE!!   I believe Hexx mentioned this earlier in this thread.    Granted, the Kzinti droner show up very early and only get better, but that's what they do.   That's their specialty!!   Every race can duplicate those fast mission times using the right ships, ship combos, etc., in some era.   If you don't know your empire's ship that fly quick mission, ask a veteran pilot.

Well, that's it for now.   I'll rave and rant some more later.


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Offline FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2005, 12:53:13 pm »
How about... if you win a PvP mission, and if the hex belongs to an enemy... the hex flips to your side... with a DV of 1.
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762_XC

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2005, 01:03:47 pm »
A few people have said that all races have hex munchers, and this is true.

BUT

No one has a hex muncher that is as efficient as the DF from 2263 until the end of time. That is what sets the Mirak apart.

Offline GDA-Agave

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2005, 01:05:35 pm »
How about... if you win a PvP mission, and if the hex belongs to an enemy... the hex flips to your side... with a DV of 1.

At what DV level would this account for?   If I win a PvP match in a 30 DV hex of the enemy's, that would be some jump.   Could you set something like this so that it only happens when a hex is at DV 3 or less?
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Offline KBF-Crim

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2005, 01:11:15 pm »
I resent the implication.  :P

Sorry...none intended...

Quote
The same thing holds when I fly gorn.

I would say this rule is of even more import for plasma races....

Quote
So you have to be an ace to be allowed to participate in any significant action on a server, is that it?

No no no....please dont misunderstand me...

Besides...I'm a berserker....not an ace....there is a slight difference... ;D

Under the current system...there are multiple roles to be filled...

Hunter killer

Rapid responce

Hex maintenence

Trench warfare

Harrassment, distractionary force


We (the coalition)...try and break this down for the express purpose of giving every player the kind of play they are looking for....and still have impact on the "war effort"....

Some people dont like PvP for what ever reason....

Some people live for it...

Some people simply dont have the time to nutter (like me)...and giving casual players the abilty to make meaningful contributions is KEY to getting those casual players to show up when they can...

One of those ways to make a meaningful contribution...is being able to log on...jump into the fight...and run someone off...

Offline GDA-Agave

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2005, 01:11:15 pm »

No one has a hex muncher that is as efficient as the DF from 2263 until the end of time. That is what sets the Mirak apart.

I agree.  I did mention that, just not that particular ship.   But if you look at their lack of good  heavy cruiser and bigger PvP ships versus other empires, doesn't that balance things out?   It does in my opinion.

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Offline Strat

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2005, 01:11:29 pm »
How about... if you win a PvP mission, and if the hex belongs to an enemy... the hex flips to your side... with a DV of 1.

Sounds good to me, make for some fierce battles.

What about in the case of Starbases?  That might still work becuase of you blow up a SP, well... Its dead.  What if you did 2 battles for those?  One to kill the SB and one to take the hex?  Just an idea.

And planets?  No blowing up planets, but they are supposed to be tougher right?  At least thats my non Dyna logic talking.  Make those 3 battles.  And since you are basically taking over the planet, let it have like 5  or 10 DV when its turned.

Here is an alternatetive to turning a hex with a dv of 1 in a single fight.  Make the DV proportionate to the number of attaking ships.  If say like 4 guys Side A attack a hex of Side B, who has one defender of one ship (lol, tough break), give a larger DV shift to the attackers than if a 1v1 was played and won.

On the flip side, if 4 guys sucessfully defend from 1 guy, give them a larger DV in defence, but not as much as a DV would be on that offence with the same match (4 Offence, 1 Defence)

This really gives a proper bonus to fleets fighting. 

On further thought:

It may be better that Defenders get equal shift on defence when successful.   I wa just thinking that why should they get equal when they have supplies and other nearby hexes already beloning to them.  The attackers are what are leaving all of that behind to hit inside enemy space. It is easier to defend than attack from an equal force.  But I'n not sure that thinking is logical in our application.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2005, 02:01:22 pm by Strat »

762_XC

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2005, 01:46:03 pm »

No one has a hex muncher that is as efficient as the DF from 2263 until the end of time. That is what sets the Mirak apart.

I agree.  I did mention that, just not that particular ship.   But if you look at their lack of good  heavy cruiser and bigger PvP ships versus other empires, doesn't that balance things out?   It does in my opinion.



I'm not looking to change the race in any way whatsoever. I just want PvP to have an impact on the map, where now it doesn't.

That said I think the Mirak are very underrated in PvP. Their NCC fills the CA role nicely and their dreads are far from sucking.

Offline KBF-maQmIgh

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2005, 03:06:26 pm »
Another option to help with this might be to make drones more epensive, thus making rapid hex flipping with drones a COSTLY proposition. However after reading what this rule is intended to stop I have to agree it is needed in one form or another.

Offline KBF-Crim

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #75 on: November 30, 2005, 03:19:27 pm »
Another option to help with this might be to make drones more epensive, thus making rapid hex flipping with drones a COSTLY proposition. However after reading what this rule is intended to stop I have to agree it is needed in one form or another.

Sheesh...this is going WAY WAY back...but IIRC....I brought this up when EAW was still in production...IE..we were still fixing the Dyna because WON.net dropped out...

If one side was way more populated the the other...the more populated side would see stiffer AI opposition...

There was supposed to be some type of modifier present that would "balance" the sides out....ofcourse....the shipyard bidding was suppossed to do that to...with the more populated side facing much stiffer ship prices and etc...

Then again...I never got my pet feature either..."JOIN MISSION IN PROGRESS" ;)

Offline CaptJosh

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #76 on: November 30, 2005, 03:29:14 pm »
Much as I would like that last option you mentioned, it would be devilishly hard to implement. Especially with the connection issues some folks have.
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Offline KBF-Crim

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2005, 03:35:20 pm »
Much as I would like that last option you mentioned, it would be devilishly hard to implement. Especially with the connection issues some folks have.

Well Josh....there are plenty of other games that allow people to join battles and missions in progress....enter and leave areas etc....

the problem is how to synch it up...

The *heartbeat* codeing was supposed to do that....but I guess they never got around to it...

Alas....my kingdom for the scource code... :-\

Offline Strat

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #78 on: November 30, 2005, 03:41:29 pm »
 :music: Source Code  :music::music: Source Code  :music: - WE ALL WANT SOURCE CODE!   :multi: :multi:

Offline Bonk

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Re: Server Poll
« Reply #79 on: November 30, 2005, 03:57:53 pm »
We have been over all of this a thousand times.

My suggestions to make the dreadnaught nutter aces happy:

- Eliminate the mirak as a race altogether (I'm perfectly fine with this).
- Play Romulan civil war every server, everbody in a sparrowhawk-L nothing else availabale... (I'm perfectly fine with this too)

But I suspect nothing will satisfy the dreadnaught nutter aces short of a gamespy based campaign.

You still missed the point I said above:

Quote
IMPORTANT NOTE: I have seen it said more than once that you might as well be playing the single player game. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The singleplayer game stops when you stop playing. The Dynaverse is a "Persistent Universe" first and foremost (and damn persistent at that, lol), anyway, it keeps running even if you are not there. Your actions have an effect that "persists". I think people need to remember this. It is a strategic game, not just a test of tactical prowess (though that is important too).

PvP DOES have an effect, if you cant see that, or it is not enough for you well I'm sorry. I have been busting my ass for years to get SQL to work even when I do, and we get sql missions tha shift the DV more for PvP I bet you'll find more reasons to exclude those who do not meet you standard of play from the fun of the Dynaverse.

Ask DieHard what I think of performance as a prerequisite for play...  ;)

 >:(