Topic: Server Poll

[Father Ted]

I'm gonna do something outside the box. I'm going to agree with Karnak. The disengagement rule should be kept. If you Taco Bell, you lose an hour, or whatever, in the hex. It may not mean much in your average asteroid hex, but if it's a VC planet, and everybody is dogpiling it, losing a DN for an hour means something. Also, players getting killed shouldn't be rewarded with a half DE penalty if they're flying an attrition ship. Be it an NCL, D5D, MCD, etc. they shouldn't be able to simply go back into the hex because they threw away a 2000 BPV ship that can be replaced as soon as the shipyard reloads.

I know nobody likes more rules, but I'd suggest that anybody losing a DN-CA has a 30 minute penalty, but CW-POL gets the full hour on a hex.

[Gook]

Need to see the "roolz" before any comiitments, but the signs in this thread don't look good.

[Hexx]

Need to see the "roolz" before any comiitments, but the signs in this thread don't look good.

I think the only thing really agreed upon so far is that the disengagement rule should be
kept in.
If you're against it for some reason that's cool
I have absolutely no problem flying on a server where it's not, but I think it's needed for
the vast majority of servers for simple balance.

[Strat]

I'm no Dynaverse philosophical genius, but explain to me please:

Why do we need poeple to leave a Hex for a specified amount of time when they die or lose? 

This prinicple I do not understand quite yet.

[762_XC]

Strat, the reason for the disengagement rule is to keep the Mirak from single handedly running away with the server.

Consider that your average patrol can be won in 3 minutes for a non-plasma race, and maybe 4 1/2 for a plasma race. A Mirak DF or DWD can do it in 1:40 (the time it takes to reach the AI). Fed and Klink droners can do this but not as reliably (since they draw stiffer AI).

The reasoning behind the rule was basically to rescue PvP (and plasma races by extension) from being totally obsolete. Since flipping hexes in a droner is far more efficient than fighting a human, droners would simply run away and come back into the same hex. If they died they'd drop another 500 pp (about .01% of their PP total) on a new ship.

[Hexx]

If you don't have them leave for a certain amount of time, PVP becomes pointless
Most players running hex flipping missions are flying small ships as they're the best hex flippers

A mission time against AI with the hex flipper is around the 2-3 minute mark,
usually closer to two for most races.
The mission time for a PVP is probably in the 20-30 minute mark.
So it makes no sense for a player trying to flip hexes to actually fight it out.
Let his ship die, hit the yards, back flipping hexes in however much time it takes
for the yards to cycle.
As there could (reasonably) be 8-10 missions run by one player on a hex while
another player is flying PVP, you're best off to avoid PVP altogether.

If your side is outnumbered by the other side the effect is of course multiplied.

By having a disengagement penalty it keeps hex flippers out of a hex for x amount of time if they
die, and usually 2x if they run. This lets one PVP win somewhat balance the lower mission time of an AI battle.


EDIT- and it's not just about the Mirak (they're simply the most famous for it)
Anything carrying 4 or more drone racks, Plasma PF's, or numbers of Fusion fighters on
a DD or smaller hull (actually CW for some) can do it easliy

[Bonk]

Need to see the "roolz" before any comiitments, but the signs in this thread don't look good.

I disagree, heated discussion is a good sign. It means there is interest.

... Plus I think for people who want PvP to run people off with the rule is at the same time saying they don't want it... Doh !!!!

I suspect I might be the only other person who underestands this tautology.

Does anyone remember the Dragon's Claw and Dragon's Teeth servers?  I'll bet most do not, judging by the attendance on them.  At that time, the remaining community members decided to move to OP as the game of choice.  Very few stayed behind on EAW.  The OP SQL kit did not even exist, so there was no chance of moving this new functionality to OP.  when SQL became available for OP, it was more bugged than EAW I believe, so I did not choose to put the time and effort into porting my code to OP.  I actually looked more into SFC3 than OP.  Turns out SFC3 was even worse, so I retired from server developement permanently.

<ahem>  Sorry to hijack the thread....back to retirement now...

Yes, I remember and thought they were pretty dang cool!    Things are improving, I have relatively stably OP SQL servers running, You are the only other one who truly understands the mechanics of it, (Well except for maybe DarkElf and Karnak) come back to us please!!! 

At least its good to see you around to put your 2¢ in anyway! 

[Grim]

I'm gonna do something outside the box. I'm going to agree with Karnak. The disengagement rule should be kept. If you Taco Bell, you lose an hour, or whatever, in the hex.

I have to agree.

[Bonk]

I'm gonna do something outside the box. I'm going to agree with Karnak. The disengagement rule should be kept. If you Taco Bell, you lose an hour, or whatever, in the hex.

I have to agree.

If we must...

But there should be no disengagement rule if you are destroyed. I mean you lost your ship you worked hard to get, you are sent back to base, away from the action...

Or, we can go for the full disengagment rule and only DN pilots get to enjoy action on the front... 

We need to get back to Skull's concept of "The Slot", it rocked!    Or perhaps people are unwilling to accept a No-Heavy Metal zone? The disengagment rule as it is, is just elitist, exclusionary and a total bummer for casual players, that is all there is to it.

[Grim]

Well from a personal standpoint i don't see what is wrong with the current system of disengagement, being if you disengage from a battle you cannot enter that hex for a period of time, if you get destroyed you can't enter that hex but the time is reduced in comparision to fleeing.

Like you posted Bonk, the "slot concept" introduced by Skull was a great idea, something which i believe should be implemented more often. A place where only smaller ships can enter, different disengagement rules used in these special areas e.g. further reduced time or no disengagement penalty whatsoever.

Benefit of having slots/other special areas on the map means that a person can decide for example what they feel like flying on the day, flying heavy metal one day under the standard disengagement rule, another day feeling like flying more intense PVP in a smaller ship area with less disengagement rules.

This should appease all types of players.

[KBF-Crim]

I'm no Dynaverse philosophical genius, but explain to me please:

Why do we need poeple to leave a Hex for a specified amount of time when they die or lose? 

This prinicple I do not understand quite yet.

Here is it is in a small nutshell...without the disengagment rule...

You can take the biggest ship you want...the cheese that goes crunch....I'll take an E4D....I'lll own as much space of you empire as I so wish...

Even if you lucky enough to catch me in a mission...I'll taco bell and just start another one...

No matter how many missions you run....I'll just gobble your space at 1:40 a pop....

After fighting for 3 or 4 hours and seeing you hexes flip red underneath you....you'll get it...

[Hexx]

I think everyone liked the idea of "the slot" iirc I even stole it for
the Mirror server (if only I'd actually played on it)
Just think everyone's been to preoccupied with other stuff to put it back in.

KCW will have a slot (for the F5 junkies)

....
Actually I had forgotten about that, doh!

[Strat]

Thanks guys.

I'm just asking so I can help brain storm solutions.

What is 'The Slot' idea?

[KBF-Crim]

I'm gonna do something outside the box. I'm going to agree with Karnak. The disengagement rule should be kept. If you Taco Bell, you lose an hour, or whatever, in the hex.

I have to agree.

If we must...

But there should be no disengagement rule if you are destroyed. I mean you lost your ship you worked hard to get, you are sent back to base, away from the action...

Or, we can go for the full disengagment rule and only DN pilots get to enjoy action on the front... 

We need to get back to Skull's concept of "The Slot", it rocked!    Or perhaps people are unwilling to accept a No-Heavy Metal zone? The disengagment rule as it is, is just elitist, exclusionary and a total bummer for casual players, that is all there is to it.

Bonk....see my post to strat...

Losing an E4D is like loosing a lighter when you have a case of them in the cupboard....

You not thinking in strategic terms....the the DV.....the SMALL ship is god....

[Bonk]

Thanks guys.

I'm just asking so I can help brain storm solutions.

What is 'The Slot' idea?

The slot is a zone on the map restricted to CLs and smaller so that casual players will not be driven off all the action zones by nutters in big ships.

[KBF-Crim]

Thanks guys.

I'm just asking so I can help brain storm solutions.

What is 'The Slot' idea?

The slot is a zone on the map restricted to CLs and smaller so that casual players will not be driven off all the action zones by nutters in big ships.

I'd REALLY  really really really like to herr burts PF floatilla's added and allowed to play there too...

[Bonk]

I'm gonna do something outside the box. I'm going to agree with Karnak. The disengagement rule should be kept. If you Taco Bell, you lose an hour, or whatever, in the hex.

I have to agree.

If we must...

But there should be no disengagement rule if you are destroyed. I mean you lost your ship you worked hard to get, you are sent back to base, away from the action...

Or, we can go for the full disengagment rule and only DN pilots get to enjoy action on the front... 

We need to get back to Skull's concept of "The Slot", it rocked!    Or perhaps people are unwilling to accept a No-Heavy Metal zone? The disengagment rule as it is, is just elitist, exclusionary and a total bummer for casual players, that is all there is to it.

Bonk....see my post to strat...

Losing an E4D is like loosing a lighter when you have a case of them in the cupboard....

You not thinking in strategic terms....the the DV.....the SMALL ship is god....

Yes, I fully understand that and it is a cheap and ugly tactic,

BUT

In my CL I am excluded from participating in any battles that are meaningful, because I am chased off by nutters in big ships that I have no chance of defeating. It gets bad enough that sometimes I just log off and go futz with server stuff to keep myself occupied. This should not happen.

In my opinion, the bad side of the disengagment rule outweighs the good side by a significant margin.

Why not just make a rule to stop the exact situation you describe without excluding casual players from all the significant battle zones?

[KBF-Crim]

I'm gonna do something outside the box. I'm going to agree with Karnak. The disengagement rule should be kept. If you Taco Bell, you lose an hour, or whatever, in the hex.

I have to agree.

If we must...

But there should be no disengagement rule if you are destroyed. I mean you lost your ship you worked hard to get, you are sent back to base, away from the action...

Or, we can go for the full disengagment rule and only DN pilots get to enjoy action on the front... 

We need to get back to Skull's concept of "The Slot", it rocked!    Or perhaps people are unwilling to accept a No-Heavy Metal zone? The disengagment rule as it is, is just elitist, exclusionary and a total bummer for casual players, that is all there is to it.

Bonk....see my post to strat...

Losing an E4D is like loosing a lighter when you have a case of them in the cupboard....

You not thinking in strategic terms....the the DV.....the SMALL ship is god....

Yes, I fully understand that and it is a cheap and ugly tactic,

BUT

In my CL I am excluded from participating in any battles that are meaningful, because I am chased off by nutters in big ships that I have no chance of defeating. It gets bad enough that sometimes I just log off and go futz with server stuff to keep myself occupied. This should not happen.

In my opinion, the bad side of the disengagment rule outweighs the good side by a significant margin.

Why not just make a rule to stop the exact situation you describe without excluding casual players form aall the significant battle zones.

*sigh*

Take the heavy cruiser of you chioce...I'll take an E4D.. NOT a light cruiser....a FRIGATE.....you'll see just how effective these ships can be in PVP...

A better example would be the D5D....a REAL CL....

I'll take ANY match against a BCH of your choice....and win more than 50%....I'll stand and fight on those odds any day..

Go ahead...devise a rule for droners....you then have to define what a droner is....oh like EVERY MIRAK ship in the list...

I can then take another ship , not defined as a droner...like an F5....and run 1:40 missions with it...and your back in the same boat....no boasting at all...

I can make you some movies if you need to see it with your own eyes...

[Strat]

How close are we to implementing SQL in a production environment, ie a real game?

[Bonk]

I'm gonna do something outside the box. I'm going to agree with Karnak. The disengagement rule should be kept. If you Taco Bell, you lose an hour, or whatever, in the hex.

I have to agree.

If we must...

But there should be no disengagement rule if you are destroyed. I mean you lost your ship you worked hard to get, you are sent back to base, away from the action...

Or, we can go for the full disengagment rule and only DN pilots get to enjoy action on the front... 

We need to get back to Skull's concept of "The Slot", it rocked!    Or perhaps people are unwilling to accept a No-Heavy Metal zone? The disengagment rule as it is, is just elitist, exclusionary and a total bummer for casual players, that is all there is to it.

Bonk....see my post to strat...

Losing an E4D is like loosing a lighter when you have a case of them in the cupboard....

You not thinking in strategic terms....the the DV.....the SMALL ship is god....

Yes, I fully understand that and it is a cheap and ugly tactic,

BUT

In my CL I am excluded from participating in any battles that are meaningful, because I am chased off by nutters in big ships that I have no chance of defeating. It gets bad enough that sometimes I just log off and go futz with server stuff to keep myself occupied. This should not happen.

In my opinion, the bad side of the disengagment rule outweighs the good side by a significant margin.

Why not just make a rule to stop the exact situation you describe without excluding casual players form aall the significant battle zones.

*sigh*

Take the heavy cruiser of you chioce...I'll take an E4D.. NOT a light cruiser....a FRIGATE.....you'll see just how effective these ships can be in PVP...

A better example would be the D5D....a REAL CL....

I'll take ANY match against a BCH of your choice....and win more than 50%....I'll stand and fight on those odds any day..

Go ahead...devise a rule for droners....you then have to define what a droner is....oh like EVERY MIRAK ship in the list...

I can then take another ship , not defined as a droner...like an F5....and run 1:40 missions with it...and your back in the same boat....no boasting at all...

I can make you some movies if you need to see it with your own eyes...

I resent the implication. 

The same thing holds when I fly gorn.

So you have to be an ace to be allowed to participate in any significant action on a server, is that it?