Topic: Whats Next?

[Grim]

Stock servers suck. No one plays them. Hosts arnt a problem, we have XC servers. Problem is server admins. They are few and far between and there are less and less of them as time goes by.

Agreed we could do with more server admins or more people getting involved in server development.

When the player community understands to treat them like gods, we might get a few more server admins to commit their time to getting a good campaign going. No one understands the time and effort involved in planning/running a decent campaign. The player community must come to terms with the fact they are lesser beings and to worship their gods accordingly.

Don't agree with this arrogant stance, in no way should players deem server admins as gods, respect yes for putting in the time and effort into running a campaign but in no way should players be deemed as inferior or less dedicated to the community. You seem to forget that players are also vital to a server and can make or break a server, both types of involvement are vital.

After the ridiculous behavior treatment from a few RM's on SG4, I told myself I wasnt taking sh*t from a single player not even once on SG5, I'd just ban them at the drop of a hat, turns out that letting everyone know straight off what I'd do, everyone behaved amazingly well and no one got the axe.

There was a shift of server policy some time ago from asking the players their opinions on server development and then deciding to take into consideration their opinions to the complete opposite of the spectrum into the mindset of "I don't give a sh*t what the players think i will run it this way". I feel this change of approach has harmed the community and contributed to the decline of the player base.

I still didnt get the worship treatment I wanted, tho, and the thank you thread was damned pathetic. So I'm taking time off. Maybe someday the player base will realize there is more to a campaign than logging on and playing.

I would expect this egotistical whiney approach in a game such as CS not SFC, if you have been running servers in order to get your huge ego stroked then you are clearly missing some of the fundamental and key points of why servers should be run and their impact on the community.

[SFCShadow]

Good luck Ed. It really isn't as simple even to setup a "stock/basic" server and making a 4 powers war would not be "Simple".

I'm still a member of DynaverseAdministrators@yahoogroups.com since it's inception. Still get the occational E-mail form it and it has definately taken a huge decline over the last two years.  I do have a tremendous colleciton of all the E-mails associated with it and of course you can always just go to Yahoo and look there too.

I've often tinkered with the idea of doing an Early long term server. However I never really enjoyed (read strongly disliked. LOL) Taldrens server setup.

Oh and forget about trying to go with a stock "Server", the improvements over the years have definately tried their best to improve on functionality and stablity and to try and not use any of the work done to do one now is well...lets say counter-intuitive to good mental health.

Dizzy and company aren't kidding when they say that it will most likely take 3 SOLID months of your life to just get to the point of setting up a "Simple" server with some confidence (as in all your spare time slogging). 

My recommendation...get involved with one of the existing servers out there, as a Server Admin and learn while helping them.  Bonk is working on a new server if my understanding is right...get with him and learn with it, it looks promising.  Regardless you are looking at a HUGE chunk of your life getting something that resembles something playable. (heh)

Oh one piece of advice, if you do this (which I have no doubt you will), do it ONLY for your enjoyment and hope others will to.  Despite the talk of EGO's etc, it maybe your love for it will be the only thing to help you carry though to a completed goal.  Once you gain a competance for it if you do make it to the end, THEN worry about what others might want.

[KBF-maQmIgh]

Dennis, the truth is if this level of work is needed even for basic servers then I will not likely get involved. My business is doing well as is my radio show, so I would h\not have the lvel of committment needed for what everyone is describing. However I would LOVE to see a traditional cmapaign from early era with a long term plan put into place.

BTW, not sure if they gave you access to the KBF forums or not, if they did then go read my thread otherwise PM me to send it to you..

[el-Karnak]

Stock servers suck. No one plays them. Hosts arnt a problem, we have XC servers. Problem is server admins. They are few and far between and there are less and less of them as time goes by.

Agreed we could do with more server admins or more people getting involved in server development.

When the player community understands to treat them like gods, we might get a few more server admins to commit their time to getting a good campaign going. No one understands the time and effort involved in planning/running a decent campaign. The player community must come to terms with the fact they are lesser beings and to worship their gods accordingly.

Don't agree with this arrogant stance, in no way should players deem server admins as gods, respect yes for putting in the time and effort into running a campaign but in no way should players be deemed as inferior or less dedicated to the community. You seem to forget that players are also vital to a server and can make or break a server, both types of involvement are vital.

After the ridiculous behavior treatment from a few RM's on SG4, I told myself I wasnt taking sh*t from a single player not even once on SG5, I'd just ban them at the drop of a hat, turns out that letting everyone know straight off what I'd do, everyone behaved amazingly well and no one got the axe.

There was a shift of server policy some time ago from asking the players their opinions on server development and then deciding to take into consideration their opinions to the complete opposite of the spectrum into the mindset of "I don't give a sh*t what the players think i will run it this way". I feel this change of approach has harmed the community and contributed to the decline of the player base.

I still didnt get the worship treatment I wanted, tho, and the thank you thread was damned pathetic. So I'm taking time off. Maybe someday the player base will realize there is more to a campaign than logging on and playing.

I would expect this egotistical whiney approach in a game such as CS not SFC, if you have been running servers in order to get your huge ego stroked then you are clearly missing some of the fundamental and key points of why servers should be run and their impact on the community.

At work, I am responsible for directing 6 highly paid US software developers at a F500 company.  You talk about trying to handle a pack of prima-donnas without going crazy.  One thing that needs to be said is that all techies have EGOs. And, a lot of the time these prima-donnas that just can't wait to have their EGOs stroked.  They all think that they are the next best thing to IT since the invention of the internet.  So, sometime you gotta tell them GOOD JOB and your are SO SPECIAL even though, behind their backs in your boss' office,  you are kinda rolling your eyes and saying that we could have figured that problem out in the half the time. And, sometimes you have to get out the pail of cold water and lay down the law regarding application arhitecture and code reviews and never let them give you any crap back-talk; especially with contractors that always looking to learn new skills of the company dime and pad their resumes for their next big $$$ making gig.

So, sometimes with server admins and scripters, you gotta be a little politically savvy and say your so smart and god-like, etc. so that they will get   all EGO happy and keep doing stuff for free that takes so many man-hours. And, boycott threats are definittely a big turnoff.  That will really cause a lot of long-term damage cuz techies will definitely leave over such issues.

Anyway, that's how the game is played.  No one ever said humanity was a perfect race.

The smart retired techies realize that sometimes it funner to live of the fruits of other EGO-stroke happy techies' labor, and just play the game. But, that's another story best saved for another time.   *snicker*  


PS. Of course, no one is above the laws of proper forum protocol. Anyone breaking forums rules, no matter who they are, should be punished. And, being a techie is not license to be a run-away wade. That's another story from my pre-IT manager days.

PPS. I do agree with your post's general theme on respect. If you want it then you have give it, too. A lot of times people forget that.

[Grim]

There's a difference, of course server admins want to receive some respect and gratitude for the time and effort that they have spent running a campaign. However whining about the fact that you haven't received enough praise from the players, demanding that you should be treated like a "god" and ultimately threatening to leave as a result due to lack of attention is quite frankly pathetic.

[el-Karnak]

There's a difference, of course server admins want to receive some respect and gratitude for the time and effort that they have spent running a campaign. However whining about the fact that you haven't received enough praise from the players, demanding that you should be treated like a "god" and ultimately threatening to leave as a result due to lack of attention is quite frankly pathetic.

QFE. 

Of course, most everyone will agree with your post. But, you have to set your goals here. If you are interested in getting Dizzy to do another SG server then publicly calling him "pathetic" won't get the job done.  Just ask yourself if name-calling has ever won you any arguments or started a flamewar?  No one ever wins in a flamewar. Even if you win the argument, people think you are a uncivilized wade and not worth listening to.

He's just frustrated about a few issues.  Sometimes, I think we need a Vent forum.

[Strat]

I would be sad if you left Dizzy.

I'm not going to worship you like a God (Tough Break), but I sure do appreciate your efforts.

I've never been a Dyna Admin, or whatever, but I appreiciate what you do in principle.

You give of your free time to help a community enjoy a pastime.  Whats not to appreciate!?  We want you to have fun too!  There are many thing they may not have been accomplished without you or other Admins' help and dedication!!!!  Take Xenocorp!  Hosting such a great web is not a simple 5 minute a day task!

I'm not saying you are better or lesser than they, but equal, but you are helping out of your own time. And I mean that for every person Admin or not who tries to help out OP to keep on ticking.

Ultimately, its not others' fault when a person suffers from megalomania.

[Dizzy]

in no way should players deem server admins as gods, respect yes for putting in the time and effort into running a campaign but in no way should players be deemed as inferior or less dedicated to the community. You seem to forget that players are also vital to a server and can make or break a server, both types of involvement are vital.

My days of pandering to special interest groups are over. If they dont like my server too bad. No more do I need to go out of my way to make sure we have a decent turnout on a server. I've dropped pimp, boot-licker, back-scratcher, advertiser, babysitter, lobbyist, recruiter, arbitrater and counselor (forgot a few) from my job description. You honestly are clueless about how much work is involved in doing a server, hehe.

Karnak's right on about the ease of logging in a playing a few games on a server just as a player.

How much difference of work is involved between a player logging unto a server and an admin designing/running a server? You answer this question adequately and I'll drop the god complex.

There was a shift of server policy some time ago from asking the players their opinions on server development and then deciding to take into consideration their opinions to the complete opposite of the spectrum into the mindset of "I don't give a sh*t what the players think i will run it this way". I feel this change of approach has harmed the community and contributed to the decline of the player base.

If you think I haven't taken into account player's considerations, then you are dead wrong. Every server has incorporated the best player ideas and used a process of evolution and revolution to get to where we are today which is a pretty player-designed server. Where are you getting your facts?

I would expect this egotistical whiney approach in a game such as CS not SFC, if you have been running servers in order to get your huge ego stroked then you are clearly missing some of the fundamental and key points of why servers should be run and their impact on the community.

I get my ego stroked only when my opponent goes down burning in pieces. EVERYONE knows that. You totally missed my point. You need to stfu now.

[Dizzy]

There's a difference, of course server admins want to receive some respect and gratitude for the time and effort that they have spent running a campaign. However whining about the fact that you haven't received enough praise from the players, demanding that you should be treated like a "god" and ultimately threatening to leave as a result due to lack of attention is quite frankly pathetic.

I thretened to leave? Where's I say that? I think I can quote my self by saying I'm taking time off. But you are right about me demanding you Worship me.

QFE. 

Of course, most everyone will agree with your post. But, you have to set your goals here. If you are interested in getting Dizzy to do another SG server then publicly calling him "pathetic" won't get the job done.  Just ask yourself if name-calling has ever won you any arguments or started a flamewar?  No one ever wins in a flamewar. Even if you win the argument, people think you are a uncivilized wade and not worth listening to.

He's just frustrated about a few issues.  Sometimes, I think we need a Vent forum.

Nah, I vent when I blow peeps ships up... Especially at my wingman. Doesnt matter about Grim name calling me. I'm not holding hostage the community because of one or several persons sad and disrespectful remarks. To suggest I would proves you dont know me. I'll do another server when I'm damn good and willing. Not because someone paid me money... My paypal account is... 98761498-20396


EDIT: Grim, I really hope you play my next server, cuz I'm gonna really go out of my way to make sure I blow ya up more than anyone else. Bet your booties.

[Hexx]

Of course some of us are just amused that there are actually people who lose to Dizzy.

That's the whole reason I want to get into it, think I'll have a big board of people who have
managed to get killed by him...

[Grim]

My days of pandering to special interest groups are over. If they dont like my server too bad. No more do I need to go out of my way to make sure we have a decent turnout on a server. I've dropped pimp, boot-licker, back-scratcher, advertiser, babysitter, lobbyist, recruiter, arbitrater and counselor (forgot a few) from my job description.

Fair enough that’s your standpoint, I accept that, but is doesn't mean I agree. You do however have to take into account the opposite may be a more suitable route to take, with a declining playerbase it might be more sensible for admins to get the players more involved in server development.

You honestly are clueless about how much work is involved in doing a server, hehe.

I may be clueless in the process of running a server, but I do understand a lot of work, time and effort goes into running a server. Hence why on every server I have flown I have posted to show gratitude to the server admins involved in the creation and running of a campaign. The difference between you and perhaps other server admins Dizzy is they don't demand the attention respect and gratitude of putting up a server, when server appreciation threads are put up the majority of server admins will accept the comments that are posted in such a thread and say thanks. They will not complain and demand more praise, nor will they deem the players “pathetic” who haven't in their eyes given enough appreciation.

How much difference of work is involved between a player logging unto a server and an admin designing/running a server? You answer this question adequately and I'll drop the god complex.

Like I said in my previous posts, and my comment above I do value the work put in by server admins and understand that they will spend a lot of time and effort running such a campaign. Like my comment above i point out there is a difference between server admins in terms of what they expect from the effort that they put in.

Server admin A- The common server admin, who puts time and effort into running a camapign and whatever praise or feedback they get they will accept and take into consideration.

Server admin B- The minority type admin,who puts time and effort into running a camapign, but the admin demands attention craves for it, complains if they don't get it, demands a "god" like status or threatens to quit if they do not get enough respect.

If you think I haven't taken into account player's considerations, then you are dead wrong. Every server has incorporated the best player ideas and used a process of evolution and revolution to get to where we are today which is a pretty player-designed server. Where are you getting your facts?

My facts come from the fact that you and numerous other admins have regularly posted in server debate threads with comments such as "I'll run the server how i want, screw the players". I am not saying all admins do that, and certainly in the past player consideration in the development of servers was more commonplace. I prefer this mentality because involving players more into the server development means that servers tend to run smoother, reduces the risk of arguments once the server has started for example on shiplist issues, reduces the tension in the community. We have lost players in the past when arguments have occurred after a campaign has started, more player involvement ultimately reduces that.

Voicing an opinion such as “screw the players I’ll run the server the way I want” may even restrict the flow of ideas in terms of server development, players may remain quiet because they feel even if they raised a point it will not be taken into consideration due to the admins stance.

I get my ego stroked only when my opponent goes down burning in pieces. EVERYONE knows that. You totally missed my point.

I missed your point? your post near the top of the thread was oozing ego to the point where it was sickening, you complained that you weren't treated like a god, complained that you didn't receive enough praise in your server appreciation thread, then said you weren't going to server admin for a while because players weren't giving enough respect.

You need to stfu now.

And you wonder why players have left over the years with this mentality, just because I have a difference in opinion with you about the appreciation server admins get or should get I get told to "STFU"?

My final points on this subject is this, server admins deserve gratitude and respect for the time and effort that they have put in but they shouldn’t demand it, and whine when they don't get the level of respect that they personally deem they should receive. You are never going to get 100% appreciation, there will always be some that for example didn’t like a server concept, didn’t like the shiplist etc.

I respect the time and effort put in by admins (including Dizzy) when setting up and running a server. Though i can't agree with comments such as treating admins like "gods", the mentality of not including players in key areas of server development discussion and the use of threatening to quit because you aren’t being appreciated enough in your own eyes.

I've made my point, whether people agree or not, i am not going to discuss the issue any further as i cant see there being any shift in opinion on either side.

[SFCShadow]

Hehehe

Hey Ed you still reading this?

Amazing how after 5+ years it's amazingly the same as it used to be. LOL

I see that Dutch (Khoros) has joined today (11/29/05)...I hope he doesn't read this.

[Dizzy]

I demand 110% Worship! Get your facts stright!

[CaptJosh]

In regards to a stock server, I'm not that interested in it, as I like OP+ 4, but what about a stock map? We haven't done that in a while.

[[KBF]MuadDib]

thanks Bonk and to the rest of the Admins in our community...whether you are a noob Admin or not...for continuing to do your best to bring this community a stable and fun campaign to play on...

i pray more of you will replace self inflated egotists who have a god complex...

[Dizzy]

Karnak, do you still remember how to code in AI draws based off player names?

[Bonk]

Two points:

The DynaverseAdministrators@yahoogroups.com has been a pain in the ass to me always. Any yahoo group is for that matter, you have to jump through about six hoops to get in, and once you do you find it is dead. I have had at least three different accounts there and might have found one or two useful tips. Its just not worth the all the registration effort. Too inacessible, that was its problem all along. Now we have Dynaverse.net (simple, easy registration). 


I can sympathise with Dizzy. I can explain it in three words: Klingon Civil War.

[KBF-maQmIgh]

Hehehe

Hey Ed you still reading this?

Amazing how after 5+ years it's amazingly the same as it used to be. LOL

I see that Dutch (Khoros) has joined today (11/29/05)...I hope he doesn't read this.

Yeah Dennis I am a glutten for punishment I guess. All those years ago we stepped away because there was a community that was slowly dying. Game admins that felt they where deserving of worship and players that felt they should be catered to. The same old tired argument.

As I said all that time before, Admins deserve respect for their time and effort but that respect has to be given to the players as well, else the servers mean nothing.

I posted a thread for this community and for KBF, thought there might be a few people interested in doing a Folding @Home team run. I was impressed with the many other communities I have been in over the last few years and how they all have these teams going and are actually quite active at it. I thought WOW, we have a great group of people here, I will pony up some prizes to spur interest a bit more and we can get this running. Sadly as a community we still see the same fractured behavior as before.

To the community at large, SFC has some real diehards but as for being a community things seem slow at best. If a single Admin cannot handle the load you get two or three to work together and split the load. If you do not have enough people to play all the races then you consolidate some of those people and eliminate a race or two for the campaign play. It would seem basic common sense could prevail on this stuff.

Now I know there are some great people here, especially the folks volunteering their time to get SQL working. But they canot carry the rest of the community.

Well I will step off my soapbox now, Dennis and I tried amny years ago to not lead this community but at least help guide it. We quit when we realized it did not want guidance or direction. It simply wanted to implode. While the mass of the community has diminished it seems all this has done is slow down the implosion.

[C-Los]

I demand 110% Worship! Get your facts stright!

 



I like your servers Diz....and "GOD" do you ever make me laugh.....  Thank You !    <S>

[Dizzy]

+ Karma C-Los. You get the '.'.