Topic: SFB victory points/conditions and the D2

[Lepton]

Having taken my first tenative step into SFB, I ran into something that might be interesting to consider for the D2 if it is doable.  This has probably been suggested before, but here it is anyway.  Victory points for a scenario are based on ship BPV and the the level of damage inflicted on ships.  Here's the breakdown in terms of % of BPV

Any internal damage: 10% of BPV
Forcing ship to disengage: 25% of BPV
Crippling a ship: 50% of BPV
Destroying a ship: 100% of BPV
Capturing a ship: 200% of BPV

So both sides score victory points based on this system.  What is intriguing is that there is the chance here for a smaller force to gain more victory points against a larger force even when that smaller force is forced to disengage.  Take a 400 bpv force against a 300 bpv force.  Suppose that the smaller force is able to destroy a 100 bpv ship or even cripple (50% damage) a 200 bpv ship then disengages.  This would net the smaller force 100 victory points while the larger force would only get 75 victory points if the smaller force managed to incur no internal damage or perhaps merely some on one ship.  Here are the levels of victory not that it particularly matters. One divides his VPs by the opposing sides VPs and expresses that fraction as a percentage.

500%+  Astounding Victory
300-499% Decisive Victory
200-299% Substantive Victory
150-199% Tactical Victory
110-149% Marginal Victory
91-109% Draw
67-90% Marginal Defeat
50-66% Tactical Defeat
33-49% Brutal Defeat
20-32% Crushing Defeat
19%-    Devastating Defeat

In the case above the smaller force could score a marginal victory.  Where this might link into the D2 is if it were possible to use this victory system to allocate hex DV shifts.  In this instance, I'd suggest that the smaller force would get the DV shift because they scored a victory if only marginal despite having withdrawn.

I was basically thinking of a way that a smaller force could beat a bigger force in a strategic sense that would translate into a DV result, but this victory system could be used for anything.  Perhaps one could elect to use it to go the other way.  If a force, any force does not win above a marginal victory or perhaps even a tactical victory, then no DV shift.

I don't know if this is even doable.  The BPV of drone-carrying ships using medium or fast drones and the BPV of ships carrying fighters or PFs would seem to be a problem.  Anyway I am just throwing it out there to see if anyone thinks it is cool or doable or even worth considering.

[Lepton]

I guess no one is interested.  I had assumed that this would be executed within the D2 mission scripts, although I have no idea if any scripting within a mission script can affect how a DV shift is assigned.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Well, I was waiting for one of the tech-type to answer there...lol
I don't know all the details as to why, but this was tried before and there were difficulties with theory and piratical applications.

[Riskyllama]

its not that no one is interested...it sounds cool, but i believe one of the limitations of how DV shifts are assigned is that its an All or nothing thing...you can either cause a shift up or a shift down of a certian value set by the .gf stuff
Thus until the holy source code grail is found, we're stuck with it like it is.

This all could be wrong, but thats what i recall from admins and server operators discussing the subject.

[762_XC]

I don't think SFB's victory conditions make much sense in a strategic context.

Anyway we would need SQL to make it work, as well as new scripts.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

This has actually been brought up several times before, these are the S2.0 Victory Conditions from SFB. In the original Taldren patrols, Victory Conditions were entirely based upon them and thus it was possible for a Frigate to score sufficient numbers of VC points when fighting against a DN so much so that they would win the encounter even if they disengaged. This became known as the "Patrol bug".

Today, Victory conditions are based on the last man standing in the hex, for Dynaverse play, this is really the only way it can work in such an environment, however, I have used S2.0 Victory Conditions from SFB for determining Bonus Prestige points. That is, if you damage your opponent, you get 10% of the ship's BPV, if you force them to disengage, 25%, if you destroy them, 100%, and so on. The highest percentage category is used, and then multiplied by 5 if the ship was human controlled. Additionally, if the ship is human controlled, you also get a mission medal based on the highest S2.0 Victory Condition category you scored in the mission. Best we can do in D2 play without re-introducing the Patrol bug.

[Lepton]

lol, that's no patrol bug. That is frigging fantastic.  An FF scoring against a DN, that would be sweet.

It's not so much whether the victory point rules make sense in a strategic context.  I was merely trying to think of a way that a smaller ship or force could "win" an engagement without having to blow something up necessarily or forcing the other folks to disengage.  In missions without AI stripping, this might force folks to protect their AI compatriots instead of using them as cannon foder.  It sounds as if the community has been down this road before, but it certainly sounds like this supposed bug was a foil (if flawed) against the heavy iron for small ships.

It's cool that the S2 rules have found some place in the D2.  Thanks for the explanation, Tracey.