Topic: Berman expects to be done with Star Trek

[Dracho]

I wish someone in Hollywood would discover Gordon R. Dickson's "Dorsai" series.

[Father Ted]

Personally, I would like to see the next Trek movie take place sometime after Nemesis with DS9 and VGR cast members reprising their roles.  I'm sick of prequels.  Let's pick up Trek where we left off before B&B decided to play Quantum Leap.

A new flick based on DS9 would be kinda cool. Bring back Gul Ducot, Garek, and my favorite Ferengi, Quark.

That being said, the best news of this article is that Berman and Braga are out, and can no longer inflict anymore damage to the franchise than they already have. "Insurrection" and "Nemesis" were both dreadful, and Enterprise just threw all previous Trek timelines out the window.

[Dash Jones]

Loved Nemesis...didn't care for Enterprise however.  Still don't know why people cry so much about Nemesis, except for some of the rather bizarre items and gratuitious warping of canon that it did.

[Father Ted]

Loved Nemesis...didn't care for Enterprise however. Still don't know why people cry so much about Nemesis, except for some of the rather bizarre items and gratuitious warping of canon that it did.

That's what really annoyed me about Nemesis was that it took a morning after Taco Bell crap all over the continuity that had been built up over 30 years by TOS, TNG, and DS9.

Shinzon is supposed to be a clone of Picard, even though, in one Q episode, it's established that Picard wasn't always an anal retentive, touchy feely, PC woose? And he had hair!

Then there's the whole Data/Lore/B-4 garbage.

Let's not even get started on Picard playing Speed Racer in a doon buggy.

Berman and Braga, 20 years in the cooler for trying to destroy Star Trek.

K1AF-Colonel Klink

[Mr_Tricorder]

I didn't like some of the canon-twisting that happened in Nemesis, particularly the always-bald Picard.  However I really like Nemesis overall and found the whole B-4 thing, though somewhat lame and far-fetched, still somewhat plausible and effective for the storyline.

Insurrection, however, rates right along side Star Trek V as far as bad Trek goes.  I honestly can't decide which one is worse.

[Father Ted]

As bad as ST:V was, and it was bad, I'd have to say Insurrection was worse. If you're going to cast an Oscar winning best actor like F. Abraham Murray, use him in a more diabolical, yet thoughtful way(I think he'd make a great James Bond villain) than as your everyday alien villain. Cheech and Chong wanting to steal the fountain of youth to grow unlimited supplies of grass would have made more sense than the plotline they ended up with.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

If anyone remembers a TNG episode from Season 3 called "Who Watched the Watchers", a proto-Vulcan culture was being studied by a Federation science team in anonymity when the holo generators hiding their location fail and they're discovered. This proto-Vulcan culture was portrayed as being Vulcan-like with logical attributes, the Vulcans of TOS or TNG, that is. Vulcans were barbaric and warlike in their past, so one would expect a proto-Vulcan culture to be similar, but this was not the case, and is very much a bad mistake similar to the type made in Nemesis where something was overlooked from Star Trek history, and Gene was still alive then. In that case, since this ptot-Vulcan culture (the Mintakans) arent actually Vulcans, they could get away with it.

On another note, I've just watched all of Eneterprise for the first time on DVD (never watched it all when it was shown on TV).

Seasons 1 and 2 seemed to have a lot of discrepencies with Trek history, I thought the Temporal Cold War was an interesting concept but could have been dealt with far better and the time travel story arcs have been overdone in Trek. Season 3, I thought was the worst. Far too preoccupied with the whole Xindi story arc (a race which apparently doesnt exist in TOS or TNG) and portrayed Archer as a captain all too willing to sacrifice morals and make bad decisions. The episodes themselves were enjoyable to watch and creative, and being creative and writing good sci-fi is something Trek has always been about. But... this material would have been better presented either in a Trek series set in post-TNG, or in another series all together.

Season 4... in stark contrast, was absolutely excellent!! Its quite clear that the new writers for Season 4 went above and beyond the call of duty in trying to account for or explain all the screwups of the previous seasons. They managed to restore the Vulcans to their nature as presented in TOS (Vulcans seemed to be very un-Vulcan-like in the first 3 seasons), got rid of the Temporal Cold War in the first episode (as though it never hapenned in the true Trek timeline) and even managed to explain why the Klingons had no ridges in TOS!! The Mirror episodes were brilliant! I liked how the writers (Garfield and Judith Reeves-Stevens) also drew upon content from original fiction as well, which is particularly prevalent in the episode "The Forge" and the mini-story arc about Surak. (Vulcan's Forge was a hard cover novel from Pocket Books published about 10 years ago).

My only criticism of Season 4, is the last episode, which seemed to be an anti-climax. The penultimate episode seems to be where the series really ended. Marina Sirtis and William Frakes just seem to be showing their age a bit too much (Sirtis appears to have given up trying to put on an American accent) to have set this episode during TNG somewhere. Overall though, if the rest of the series had been like Season 4, I think Enterprise would still be in production now. A case of too little too late.

[Mr_Tricorder]

I totally agree with you about Enterprise.  I was very skeptical at first about the series, and the first season confirmed my worst fears.  I kept watching through the second season out of sheer loyalty to Star Trek, but I got sick of it by the end of the second season.  I only picked up where I left off and watched the last two seasons.  I have a feeling that the writers for the third season made a desparate attempt to keep the show from being cancelled after that season by throwing the Enterprise back in time for now apparent reason and showing Archer face-to-face with an evil alien Nazi.  I wanted to shoot the writers in the head when I saw that.  That episode wasn't actually so bad, or at least it wasn't as apalling as the rest of that season.
The new writers for the fourth season did their best to clean up the horrible mess that the previous writers left them, but it really was too little too late.  I think the show was doomed to failure from the beginning.  When I first saw the previews for Enterprise, I kept thinking, "That's wrong and That's wrong and That looks too futuristic and that can't be right..."  I like what they did with the Andorians, Tellarites, Tholians, and the fourth season Vulcans, but that's about it.  The rest can be thrown in the garbage as far as I'm concerned.

[EmeraldEdge]

And it's a shame too, because I liked the Enterprise cast better than most Trek crews, but they were given such complete garbage to work with there just wasn't much hope.  They are lucky they lasted for 4 seasons.

[KBF-Kapact]

Seasons 1 and 2 seemed to have a lot of discrepencies with Trek history, I thought the Temporal Cold War was an interesting concept but could have been dealt with far better and the time travel story arcs have been overdone in Trek. Season 3, I thought was the worst. Far too preoccupied with the whole Xindi story arc (a race which apparently doesnt exist in TOS or TNG) and portrayed Archer as a captain all too willing to sacrifice morals and make bad decisions. The episodes themselves were enjoyable to watch and creative, and being creative and writing good sci-fi is something Trek has always been about. But... this material would have been better presented either in a Trek series set in post-TNG, or in another series all together.

See, I actually liked Season three.... the fact that it was such a radical idea, to make a story arc last for an entire season. I thought Archer did okay, except for the hatchling epiode. I couldn't stand that. I liked the fact that he sacrificed some moral ideas to survive and to accomplish the mission. But there did need to be some explanation as to what happened to the Xindi.... I thought early on in that season that it would all turn out to be a bit of a paradox... that the Enterprise would end up destroying the Xindi homeworld in the past sometime, and that would cause the whole thing. But really, a season-long arc was too much to ask of the franchise at that point. If there had been a large core of loyal fans, and B&B willing to let someone else write, then it could have done better.

[Fedman NCC-3758]

The next ST flick should pick up where Nemesis left off. Shinzon is dead, as is the entire Romulan senate. Civil war ensues within the Star Empire that entangles the Federation and the Klingon Empire. The crisis in the Alpha quadrant strains the alliance between the Federation and the Klingons, thanks to more skulduggery by Romulan commanders. Vulcan ships enter the fray. Something not seen on the big screen. Hence the title: Alliances. And this time, NO TIME TRAVEL!

[Alidar Jarok]

While an interesting story, I don't think it would make a very cohesive movie.  It includes far too great of a time period.  A TV series (or probably a book) would fill that story better.  Maybe Star Trek stories have ruined me into not expected bigger and grander for a movie, but I think that's far too broad of a story.

Aside from that, I don't think the Star Empire is in as bad a situation as everyone assumes.  The political strength is often in their military, which has survived intact.  And power struggles are business as usual, so I don't think there will be much chaos from that either.  Will there be changes?  Certainly, it was a significant event, just not that significant.

[Fedman NCC-3758]

Not really..........

The Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock was actually one story divided into two films.  The same could happen here.  What I didn't include was the level of alliances the movie could delve into. Not just galactic but between the various Klingon houses and Federation and Klingon Commanders. It allows for good character development and some great space duels.