Topic: A question for the gun owners

[Dracho]

I ignore the sights and point shoot.  I won't hit a quarter, but I can put 15 rounds in a pie plate faster than you can say mein leiben.

[KAT J'inn]

Well . . . I passed the test to use the ranges at the club and went out for the first time over the weekend.

Was fun!

I learned I need to bring some binoculars though because I didn't want to stop firing on the line while I went down to look at my shots.

So . . . I have no idea how well I did.   

I was shooting from 25 yards and I know I was smacking the target but I don't know if I got the bullseye.

The gun is very easy to use.  Light recoil. . .  Well fun basically.

Since I have no clue what I am doing (oh yeah, shooting gun . ..  clueless . . . there's a good combo) I really can't provide an analysis.

All I know is I had fun and plan to get out there this weekend.

[Dracho]

Get yourself one of these for $25.  You'll never wonder again if you hit the target (Also available in larger caliber toughness).

http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1029431&cp=2057781.712508.715301&parentPage=category



The Do-All Traps Sharpshooter Auto Reset .22 target is specifically designed for soft nosed .22 caliber pistol and rifle shooters. This unit has a hands free resetting system. As the bullet strikes each target, the force spins the target to a catch bar above. To reset the system, simply shoot the reset target or each individual target and begin another round of practice or competition.
 

[queysther]

I guess that makes me one of the few europeans here who can actually have contribute to this discussion, since I am fortunate enough to live in the one european country that still has (fairly) liberal gun laws (Switzerland).

For target shooting, my personal favorite is the SIG 210. I got myself one (a former army sidearm, forged in 1953); it's wonderfully accurate and a real pleasure to shoot (no wonder these pistols are called the "rolls-royce of 9mm weapons"). I had some nice wood grips added, the gun fits my hand very well and I usually get very good marks on a 50m range with it. Although this gun is single-action only and much older than the current service model (the 220 which I have as my personal service sidearm), I much prefer it over the more recent model for match shooting (and this even though the 220 is already considered a very accurate weapon).

For pure pleasure shooting, I love the Desert Eagle 44mag. I 'd like to try out a .50AE, but they are very hard to come by over here, and the ammo is rare and darn expensive. Plus, I'm not sure I can even hold a mighty 50, although I have little problem with the 44.

Now, for personal defense. Luckily, not such a big issue here, as yet. Still, our laws only permit the sale and posession of FMJ rounds (including the cops, although there is considerable debate about this). For this reason, for personal defense, I guess a .45 might not be such a bad choice, since even a 45 FMJ supposedly has pretty good stopping power? Or should I go for a 40S&W?

[Sirgod]

I guess that makes me one of the few europeans here who can actually have contribute to this discussion, since I am fortunate enough to live in the one european country that still has (fairly) liberal gun laws (Switzerland).

For target shooting, my personal favorite is the SIG 210. I got myself one (a former army sidearm, forged in 1953); it's wonderfully accurate and a real pleasure to shoot (no wonder these pistols are called the "rolls-royce of 9mm weapons"). I had some nice wood grips added, the gun fits my hand very well and I usually get very good marks on a 50m range with it. Although this gun is single-action only and much older than the current service model (the 220 which I have as my personal service sidearm), I much prefer it over the more recent model for match shooting (and this even though the 220 is already considered a very accurate weapon).

For pure pleasure shooting, I love the Desert Eagle 44mag. I 'd like to try out a .50AE, but they are very hard to come by over here, and the ammo is rare and darn expensive. Plus, I'm not sure I can even hold a mighty 50, although I have little problem with the 44.

Now, for personal defense. Luckily, not such a big issue here, as yet. Still, our laws only permit the sale and posession of FMJ rounds (including the cops, although there is considerable debate about this). For this reason, for personal defense, I guess a .45 might not be such a bad choice, since even a 45 FMJ supposedly has pretty good stopping power? Or should I go for a 40S&W?

Feel Free to jump in anywhere queysther. We have Gun Nuts of all kinds here.

As for the Desert Eagle, I personaly loved that pistol, But It was costly to fire, and as for Practiciality, It didn't serve me well. Don't get me wrong, I love that pistol though, I'll pick one up again later on down the road.

a .45 isn't a bad choice at all. I guess It all depends on what kind of shooter you are. Myself, I'm a pretty good shot, so I can go abit heavier then others, for stopping power, of course, But others Perfer the lighter many round approach. Niether is wrong, It's completly up to you.

Stephen

[The Postman]

Here is a good carry gun for those that aren't timid. I am hoping I get one for Christmas. 

500 Smith & Wesson with a 4" barrel with 2 compensators for different kinds of bullets, Has over 2000 ft/lbs of energy with the 4" barrel.

[jualdeaux]

I guess that makes me one of the few europeans here who can actually have contribute to this discussion, since I am fortunate enough to live in the one european country that still has (fairly) liberal gun laws (Switzerland).

For target shooting, my personal favorite is the SIG 210. I got myself one (a former army sidearm, forged in 1953); it's wonderfully accurate and a real pleasure to shoot (no wonder these pistols are called the "rolls-royce of 9mm weapons"). I had some nice wood grips added, the gun fits my hand very well and I usually get very good marks on a 50m range with it. Although this gun is single-action only and much older than the current service model (the 220 which I have as my personal service sidearm), I much prefer it over the more recent model for match shooting (and this even though the 220 is already considered a very accurate weapon).

For pure pleasure shooting, I love the Desert Eagle 44mag. I 'd like to try out a .50AE, but they are very hard to come by over here, and the ammo is rare and darn expensive. Plus, I'm not sure I can even hold a mighty 50, although I have little problem with the 44.

Now, for personal defense. Luckily, not such a big issue here, as yet. Still, our laws only permit the sale and posession of FMJ rounds (including the cops, although there is considerable debate about this). For this reason, for personal defense, I guess a .45 might not be such a bad choice, since even a 45 FMJ supposedly has pretty good stopping power? Or should I go for a 40S&W?

Since you are only allowed to have FMJ ammo, I would have to recommend the bigger the better approach. To that end I would advise you getting a high-cap .45ACP such as a Glock 21 or an HK USP. Both have a good enough capacity, should be easy enough to acquire over there and handle the recoil of the .45ACP round very easily.

[jualdeaux]

Here is a good carry gun for those that aren't timid. I am hoping I get one for Christmas. 

500 Smith & Wesson with a 4" barrel with 2 compensators for different kinds of bullets, Has over 2000 ft/lbs of energy with the 4" barrel.

You should look into the .460S&W Magnum. It is a higher velocity, flatter shooting round that is even better thanthe .500. At least that is what I've been reading.

[The Postman]

Here is a good carry gun for those that aren't timid. I am hoping I get one for Christmas. 

500 Smith & Wesson with a 4" barrel with 2 compensators for different kinds of bullets, Has over 2000 ft/lbs of energy with the 4" barrel.

You should look into the .460S&W Magnum. It is a higher velocity, flatter shooting round that is even better thanthe .500. At least that is what I've been reading.

Yes, but the 460 XVR does not come in a 4" barrel (yet) and therefore makes a lousy carry gun.

[jualdeaux]

Like either of those are carry guns. Unless you are hiking out in the wilderness of course. Having a 4" barrel on the .500 doesn't mean it is in any way a smaller gun. But, hey. If you want to try and carry that monster, be my guest.

[J. Carney]

I guess that makes me one of the few europeans here who can actually have contribute to this discussion, since I am fortunate enough to live in the one european country that still has (fairly) liberal gun laws (Switzerland).

You gotta love a country that lets the Militiaman take his service rifle home to practice with, and even allots him a stipend for ammunition. Oh how I wish that our lawmakers were so wise as to keep the militia as well equipped and trained. I only get to work out with my M249 SAW twice a year.

For pure pleasure shooting, I love the Desert Eagle 44mag. I 'd like to try out a .50AE, but they are very hard to come by over here, and the ammo is rare and darn expensive. Plus, I'm not sure I can even hold a mighty 50, although I have little problem with the 44.

As Desert Eagles go, I found the .50 AE far more fun to shoot than the .44 Mag- though I must say that i prefer the .45 Colt 1911A1 to either of the Desert Eagles. The .50 AE didn't seem to jam up quite so bad as the .44 MAg, and to mea the recoil wasn't as wild as the .44 Mag.

However, I stick to the opinion that the .44 Mag SHOULD NEVER be used in a semi-auto or automatic pistol... it's just too hot loaded.

[queysther]

You gotta love a country that lets the Militiaman take his service rifle home to practice with, and even allots him a stipend for ammunition. Oh how I wish that our lawmakers were so wise as to keep the militia as well equipped and trained. I only get to work out with my M249 SAW twice a year.

Yep, mine is still standing in the wardrobe.
An SG550, 5.6mm, full-auto capable. Though it isn't really my service rifle any longer; as an officer your service weapon is a pistol, and the rifle becomes a "borrowed weapon"... I haven't used it in ages, since I prefer pistol shooting, or, if I take to rifles, I prefer the K31 7.5mm bolt-action, wonderfully acurate and a hard kick...

As Desert Eagles go, I found the .50 AE far more fun to shoot than the .44 Mag- though I must say that i prefer the .45 Colt 1911A1 to either of the Desert Eagles. The .50 AE didn't seem to jam up quite so bad as the .44 MAg, and to mea the recoil wasn't as wild as the .44 Mag.

Interesting, I always thought the 50AE had a heavier recoil. Supposedly, it's 60% more powerful than the 44.

[J. Carney]

You gotta love a country that lets the Militiaman take his service rifle home to practice with, and even allots him a stipend for ammunition. Oh how I wish that our lawmakers were so wise as to keep the militia as well equipped and trained. I only get to work out with my M249 SAW twice a year.

Yep, mine is still standing in the wardrobe.
An SG550, 5.6mm, full-auto capable. Though it isn't really my service rifle any longer; as an officer your service weapon is a pistol, and the rifle becomes a "borrowed weapon"... I haven't used it in ages, since I prefer pistol shooting, or, if I take to rifles, I prefer the K31 7.5mm bolt-action, wonderfully acurate and a hard kick...

LOL, my primary weapon is the M2 Browning .50 caliber machine gun, or 'Maw Duce' as we lovingly have called her for over 80 years now. My secondary weapon, the one that I use dismounted is the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, a belt-fed .223 (5.56 NATO) that is really nice simply for the amount of lead it can put downrange... over 800 rounds per minute. A real joy to handle, and it can even be reliably and accurately sholder-fired if you keep yourself to 2-3 round bursts. As a military Police soldier, I also carry a pistol constantly, but I dispise the M9 Baretta to the point of calling it utterly useless. I can't wait till we replace it with another .45 ACP weapon as we are planning to do in the next few years.

As Desert Eagles go, I found the .50 AE far more fun to shoot than the .44 Mag- though I must say that i prefer the .45 Colt 1911A1 to either of the Desert Eagles. The .50 AE didn't seem to jam up quite so bad as the .44 MAg, and to me the recoil wasn't as wild as the .44 Mag.

Interesting, I always thought the 50AE had a heavier recoil. Supposedly, it's 60% more powerful than the 44.

To me it was like comparing the recoil of a .45 ACP to a .357 Magnum... it's a different FEEL to it. The .45 ACP is like a friend pushing your hand back. The .357 Magnum is like that same friend hitting your hand with a roundhouse kick. The .50 AE does have a punishing recoil for a one-handed weapon, but the .44 Mag seemed to be sharper and more unplesant.

I only fired the .50 AE once; the .44 Magnum Desert Eagle I fired on almost a dozen differen hand-numbing occasions.

[Sirgod]

Sorry to jump in there, But to this Day, I still can't stand the SAW. I know It's gotten better over the years, But being raised on the old m-60, I just can't get over that hurdle. I just don't want a weapon where an ant farts, and It blows the trajectory away.

God keep you safe Carney, as I have serious doubts about the SAW.

Stephen

[J. Carney]

Sorry to jump in there, But to this Day, I still can't stand the SAW. I know It's gotten better over the years, But being raised on the old m-60, I just can't get over that hurdle. I just don't want a weapon where an ant farts, and It blows the trajectory away.

God keep you safe Carney, as I have serious doubts about the SAW.

Stephen

They hold up good at close range (under 100m).

You and me and everyone else that have had to use a weapon like thatincombat know that most of the time, you are less than 100m and more likely less than 50m from your targets.

At 50m, I can put 190 rounds out of 200 into a sheet of notebook paper- which is about the size of a man's vital areas- in about 45 seconds. Give me two minutes, and I can devide my fire between 5 different targets, hitting with 180 out of 200 rounds.


The SAW just wasn't meant for the 'reach out and touch someone' effect that the M-60 has. The M-60's sucessor, the M240 is the ONLY choice for a non-mounted unit that's got more than 100m of open ground to cover in front of their position. It's not just because of the 5.56mm round's tendency to be blown off course either; a 5.56mm just doesn't have the lethality of the 7.62mm at that range.


Luckily for us, the military is going back to the 'bigger is better' argument. We are now testing a .45 ACP pistol and- to a lesser extent- a 7.62mm rifle to be introduced into the TO&E.

[OlBuzzard]

SHH. Your using commen sense, and I don't want to loose the Picture in my mind of seeing Will firing a Desert eagle the first time. 

Stephen

sorry I missed this ...

1.  A hand gun just for target practice ..  well balanced, what fits your hand the best  ( the .22 or .22LR is okie if ya get one that is well assembled. Other wise frankly it wouldn't be worth the effort).  That seems to be what you decided ... good choice.

2.  ANY hand gun is not that good for home defense.  This is primary due to the fact that IF it is that serious ...  you want something that will do the job (so to speak).  I know ...   this does not set too well with me in one sense of the word.  Frankly,  (And I'm sure some will find this hard to believe comming from me) ...  if you are going to have to shoot someone ..  then you are defending your life ... and the life of your loved one (hmmm not sure how many would fall into this category for J'inn)  and that means you may be forced to take another life.  That said ...  with a hand gun  7to 9 mm .. or a 357 ...  what ever ..  that can go through a wall like it was paper.

Your best bet is a  VERY short barrelled 12 ga shot gun (but still legal) with 00 buck or at the very least #4 high brass (max load)

I really dont know if ya want to spend a lot of time debating this issue  (and that is really not my intent).

Oh ...

BTW...

Stephen  :

the Desert Eagle 357 OR the 44 mag  (one of the finest weapons straight out of the box ever made) many $$$

the look on J'inn face touching off the first round :  Priceless

 

[J. Carney]

That said ...  with a hand gun  7to 9 mm .. or a 357 ...  what ever ..  that can go through a wall like it was paper.

I won't debate the merits of keeping a shotgun for home defense. Nothing beats a good old fashioned scattergun loaded with #4's for close work... well, except maybe a flamethrower. And of course, shotguns don't have to be aimed when you are half-asleep at 0300 and not wearing your glasses.

I will, however, point any and all handgun owners to these guys:
http://mysite.elixirlabs.com/index.php?uid=12665&page=1977
My personal Home defense loads are .40 caliber Glaser Silvers. Yeah, I know... $22 for 6 rounds is INSANELY expensive, but I live in a trailer in a 300 lot trailer park, and even my beloved Winchester Rangers are too damn over-penetrating for that terrain.

[OlBuzzard]

That said ...  with a hand gun  7to 9 mm .. or a 357 ...  what ever ..  that can go through a wall like it was paper.

I won't debate the merits of keeping a shotgun for home defense. Nothing beats a good old fashioned scattergun loaded with #4's for close work... well, except maybe a flamethrower. And of course, shotguns don't have to be aimed when you are half-asleep at 0300 and not wearing your glasses.

I will, however, point any and all handgun owners to these guys:
http://mysite.elixirlabs.com/index.php?uid=12665&page=1977
My personal Home defense loads are .40 caliber Glaser Silvers. Yeah, I know... $22 for 6 rounds is INSANELY expensive, but I live in a trailer in a 300 lot trailer park, and even my beloved Winchester Rangers are too damn over-penetrating for that terrain.

hmmmm

that would work !

[Sirgod]

LOL, I gotta give Creds to Buzz, J'inn ever firing such a monster would be a blast...

Yeah your Right on the SAW part J. It's just one of those Weapons that I just don't like. Hell, I'm not that great a shot anymore myself, But I would not want that piece of crap as a weapon at all.

Stephen

[OlBuzzard]

Yeah your Right on the SAW part J. It's just one of those Weapons that I just don't like. Hell, I'm not that great a shot anymore myself, But I would not want that piece of crap as a weapon at all.

Stephen

I dunno that much about the SAW ....   never saw one ( no pun intended..  )  But My youngest son Jonathan took one that needed to be "sighted in ..."

1st round "out side the paint"
2nd round" inside"
3rd, 4th and 5th ...  bulls eye.

and yes ...

he shoots expert.  Deadly with a std issue weapon carried by a Marine.