Topic: Japanese Sun Rising  (Read 4857 times)

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Offline Dracho

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2005, 11:40:04 pm »
I think the point being that the Axis alliance would have been better served if the Germans had sent submarines full of MG-42's and assault rifles to Japan, rather than plans for rockets and jets.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2005, 08:59:13 am »
Assault Rifles?  By the time the MP-44's were entering service, the war was essentially over.
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
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Offline Dracho

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2005, 10:35:07 am »
We know that now, because of the bomb.  Had we been forced to invade Japan, those would have made a huge difference and not distributing them was a failure on the part of the Axis leadership (one of many).

And from the German perspective, look at the kill ratio of Germans to Russians in 1941 & 1942, when the German army was basically armed with bolt-action Mausers, imagine the damage they would have caused armed with even a decent semi-automatic rifle.

The MG-42 was a fearsome weapon (even today's M-60 is based on its design), but the firepower of a full squad of infantry armed with M1 Garands was too much for either the German or Japanese infantry to cope with.  Even when we were outnumbered, we put down more lead (by a significant factor), and that makes all the difference to an infantryman.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2005, 02:20:58 pm »
Quote
We know that now, because of the bomb.  Had we been forced to invade Japan, those would have made a huge difference and not distributing them was a failure on the part of the Axis leadership (one of many).

By 1944, Germany and Japan were pretty much finished.  Up against the almost limitless manpower of the Soviet Union and the production capacity of the United States, sooner or later defeat was, essentially, inevitable.  More importantly, the German submarine campaign had pretty much failed by that point, while the US was poised to finally bore in on their own submarine interdiction efforts in the Pacific.

We didn't have to drop the bomb or invade Japan.  Starving them out through a total submarine blockade, which by 1945 we'd accomplished, would've eventually defeated them.

Of course, this is all hindsight.

Quote
And from the German perspective, look at the kill ratio of Germans to Russians in 1941 & 1942, when the German army was basically armed with bolt-action Mausers, imagine the damage they would have caused armed with even a decent semi-automatic rifle.

Most battlefield casualties in WWII were, if I recall correctly, caused by artillery, not small arms fire.  Firepower per infantry squad is certainly an advantage tactically, but I think you're overstating things a little, especially against the Russians.
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Dracho

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2005, 02:29:00 pm »
That would make an interesting historical fiction novel.
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2005, 02:31:30 pm »
That would make an interesting historical fiction novel.

Yeah, especially if the author didn't flinch from the realities of islands full of millions of starving people, the disease and other such that would certainly result, etc.

In a lot of ways, the bomb was the cleaner option.
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Dracho

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2005, 02:38:14 pm »
The bomb was the only way to utterly defeat Japan without having to kill 90% of the men, women, and children on the islands.
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline KBF-Kapact

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2005, 02:44:08 pm »
and for that matter, the world learned, on a comparatively small scale model of bomb what it needed to avoid using again.
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Offline Dracho

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2005, 02:57:47 pm »
Yep... God help us if anyone ever figures out how to build something with a nuclear yield and no residual fallout or pollution.
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Commander Maxillius

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2005, 06:50:02 pm »
Yep... God help us if anyone ever figures out how to build something with a nuclear yield and no residual fallout or pollution.


Would anti-matter leave anything like that?
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Offline KBF-Kapact

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2005, 08:24:07 pm »
Yep... God help us if anyone ever figures out how to build something with a nuclear yield and no residual fallout or pollution.


Would anti-matter leave anything like that?

I'm not really up on my antimatter, but it seems to me like antimatter wouldn't leave much but memories...
KBF-Kapact
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Offline Commander Maxillius

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2005, 06:16:03 pm »
no fallout and no residual radiation.... 




uh oh
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Offline KBF-Kapact

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Re: Japanese Sun Rising
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2005, 05:41:23 am »
no fallout and no residual radiation.... 




uh oh


and no witnesses.....
KBF-Kapact
IKS Ab'Qaff
"Surrender or be des-"

{sound of explosion}
http://fantasytrek.blogspot.com/
http://houseabukoff.blogspot.com
http://kapactsrant.blogspot.com/
http://startrekenterprisevirtualseasons.blogspot.com/

Klingon Black Fleet
"...laughing, undefeated..."