Topic: The Shat's plan to save Trek

[Rat Boy]

From Trek Web

I'm not sure Paramount can be sold on a prequel idea anymore.

[Centurus]

I personally would love another prequel.  Now that B&B and Dead & Deader, I think a prequel would take off and never come down.  Only one way to find out.

[OlBuzzard]

I think it could be done .. maybe even take up where the last one left off.  The one thing they need to be cautious of  ....   trying to rewrite "Trek History".

If ya stop and think about it ..  that was much of what the BB bros were tyring to do in a round about way with the time warp wars.

If we have learned nothing else ..  I hope the idea is to do something more complimentary to the entire series  ( like the last season was starting to shape up ... until the Idiot Bros started screwing with it again)

[J. Carney]

I'd give it a look... but we need to leave the established characters alone.

Go back FARTHER... like Enterprise, but the way they SHOULD have done it.

Primative ships.
Space-going cowboys.
Alien Babe-of-the-Weeks.
 
But most of all... CONTINUITY, CONTINUITY, CONTINUITY!!!

[E_Look]

I'd give it a look... but we need to leave the established characters alone.

Go back FARTHER... like Enterprise, but the way they SHOULD have done it.

Primative ships.
Space-going cowboys.
Alien Babe-of-the-Weeks.
 
But most of all... CONTINUITY, CONTINUITY, CONTINUITY!!!

Lots of fistfights, Kirk types with blood trickling from their mouths, Kelso types manning their stations in casts and slings and bandages, Scotty types who don't break even when the Captain orders him to squeal on who threw the first punch, ray guns that don't work as well as the starship crewman thinks it does so that he has to find something else- QUICK- to kill the monster with... now that would make a SUPER Trek!

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I'd give it a look... but we need to leave the established characters alone.

Go back FARTHER... like Enterprise, but the way they SHOULD have done it.

Primative ships.
Space-going cowboys.
Alien Babe-of-the-Weeks.
 
But most of all... CONTINUITY, CONTINUITY, CONTINUITY!!!

Lots of fistfights, Kirk types with blood trickling from their mouths, Kelso types manning their stations in casts and slings and bandages, Scotty types who don't break even when the Captain orders him to squeal on who threw the first punch, ray guns that don't work as well as the starship crewman thinks it does so that he has to find something else- QUICK- to kill the monster with... now that would make a SUPER Trek!

 

Outstanding!  That is exactly what I was hoping for with Enterprise, and exactly what they didn't deliver.  Add in a few colonies that need a starship for supplies and protection but don't really want it around because they left to get away from other people and you've got it perfect.

The producers of any new prequel should review all episodes of TOS and maybe even Firefly, and ignore all episodes of TNG and later.  This is not because TNG was bad -- it wasn't -- but because the civilized nature of TNG's society is *not* what you want in a Dawn-of-the-Federation prequel.

-S'Cipio

[E_Look]

pre-TOS *SHOULD* have a strong taste of wild West to it; I mean, what, in Kirk and Spock's time (TOS) there were what, onlytwelve starships of any decent strength and speed like the Connies?  There MUST be less in pre-TOS!  Say, five or six starships, tops... and an inexorably expanding with ever more dangerous Federation frontier.

It would be a kick to see a new young actor play a young Spock in a lieutenant's or ensign's uniform facing down some hooligans in a border colony town with a phaser slung around his waist, "Draw!"

(Of course, the baddies try to duke it out... and then I hope some competent writer takes over.)

[Commander Maxillius]

pre-TOS *SHOULD* have a strong taste of wild West to it; I mean, what, in Kirk and Spock's time (TOS) there were what, onlytwelve starships of any decent strength and speed like the Connies?  There MUST be less in pre-TOS!  Say, five or six starships, tops... and an inexorably expanding with ever more dangerous Federation frontier.

It would be a kick to see a new young actor play a young Spock in a lieutenant's or ensign's uniform facing down some hooligans in a border colony town with a phaser slung around his waist, "Draw!"

(Of course, the baddies try to duke it out... and then I hope some competent writer takes over.)

Actually, Kirk and Spock are close to the same age.  It makes me wonder why other Vulcans on the show are so much older at their ranks than Spock was.  Tuvok was supposed to be 110-ish on Voyager and he was only a Commander.  Spock made Captain by 60.

[J. Carney]

Actually, Kirk and Spock are close to the same age.  It makes me wonder why other Vulcans on the show are so much older at their ranks than Spock was.  Tuvok was supposed to be 110-ish on Voyager and he was only a Commander.  Spock made Captain by 60.

Spock was 'running away to join the circus' when he joined Starfleet. He was an impulsive, untried boy on the edge of manhood running form a father he saw as oppressive and domineering. He bailed at the earliest opportunity available to him.

Tuvok was much older because he took a more indirect route. He had gone to the Academy as young as Spock (at least in the only novel I've read with any info on his history) but resigned his comission at some point. He then went back to Vulcan, went through Khoilnar, had children, made a pilgramage to Seleya by WALKING, and then REJOINED Starfleet at the rank of Ensign.

Most of the other Vulcans are older than Spock probably for reasons similar to Tuvoks... they simply came to Starfleet later in life.

[Mr_Tricorder]

There is a Voyager episode (I can't remember the name) where Tuvok has flasbacks from when he served on the Excelsior under Captain Sulu.  The episode reveals that he was an ensign at the time and resigned his commission shortly after.  He then rejoined Starfleet much later.

[Lieutenant_Q]

If a new Trek airs on UPN, its doomed, if it airs on normal network, It will last because it is Trek.  Even Enterprise would have survived on another network.  Still...UPN was probably the best thing to happen to trek, B&B are gone!

[Mr_Tricorder]

If a new Trek airs on UPN, its doomed, if it airs on normal network, It will last because it is Trek.  Even Enterprise would have survived on another network.  Still...UPN was probably the best thing to happen to trek, B&B are gone!

There's a little problem there.  UPN stands for United Paramount Network.  Star Trek is owned by Paramount.

Paramount viewed Star Trek as their Sci-Fi cash cow.  B&B shared this belief, so the higher-ups at Paramount put them in charge.

B&B tried to sell Star Trek to the UPN audience, so they made Enterprise with flashy ships, sex-crazed Vulcans, decontamination chamber gel-rubbing scenes, and aliens from the future who want to destroy the past.

This didn't hold the normal UPN audience's attention and they continued to watch the other pointless drabble that they so loved, while Trekkies became outraged at the total debasement of everything that was Star Trek.  Significant efforts were made to save Enterprise in the last season, but all in all it was too little too late.

Braga left Star Trek and Berman is on his way out, but Star Trek is still owned by Paramount and they have only one question on their minds, "How can we make Star Trek profitable again?"  Not good, profitable.

Paramount either needs to change its mentality toward Star Trek or sell it to someone else who can do it justice.  Personally, I would like to see them do the former.

[Lieutenant_Q]

CBS is also owned by Paramount, no reason why it couldn't have aired on there, the way TNG did when it first came out.

Honestly, I think part of what killed Trek for the casual viewer was the musical chairs.  TOS aired on NBC, TNG aired on CBS, DS9 aired on FOX.  VOY moved around so many times (I think in the big markets it was always on UPN but here it started on ABC, went to PAX, back to ABC, then finally to UPN), and finally ENT was on UPN.

The other part was, like you said, the debasement of the franchise.  You would have thought that they would have been intelligent enough to not arouse the anger of hordes of Trekkies. (We can be quite nasty when we're angry  )

[Mr_Tricorder]

Strange, I distinctly remember Voyager sticking to UPN for its entire run (it was used to launch UPN as the very first show it aired) and DS9 starting out on CBS and then moving to UPN.

I have never heard that Paramount owned CBS.  The way I understood it was that CBS accepted the pitch for TNG in a similar way that NBC accepted the pitch for TOS.  Since TNG was doing well for CBS when DS9 came around, it was only logical for them to agree to air that series too.  Paramount did not have its own network until UPN and had to pitch Star Trek and other shows to the networks to try to get them to agree to air them.  Once they started up UPN, they could air whatever they wanted, which made things a lot easier for Paramount but removed a very important quality checkpoint in the studio/network system.

[Father Ted]

Actually, TNG and DS9 were syndicated, you saw it on whatever station bought the rights. That wasn't so bad for TNG, because the local Fox station aired every single episode on the same day and time. DS9 kind of got screwed by being aired late on Saturday nights on another station after the football games, meaning you couldn't really set the vcr because you might just end up with the 4th quarter of a game. It also got hurt by some pretty dull episodes in the first couple of seasons that initially turned a lot of viewers, including me, off.

Voyager and Enterprise were UPN. Voyager, like TNG, stayed on the same channel on the same day at the same time, and lasted, even though it wasn't as good a show. Enterprise stayed on the same channel, but was constantly moved around, and thanks to B&B tinkering, never lived up to its potential.

[Mr_Tricorder]

In addition to a bad time slot and a slow start, DS9 was also hurt by Babylon 5.  A lot of people accused DS9 of being Star Trek's attempt at a Babylon 5 rip-off.  DS9 was very under-appreciated and was, in my opinion, one of the best Trek series.  I loved the Dominion Wars.

[Father Ted]

I agree, DS9 definitely grows on you, especially with the Dominion Wars. I never really got to watch it until Spike picked it up a year or so ago, but aside from TOS(along with TMP), you actually see the depth of the characters that was kind of missing in TNG, Voyager, and Enterprise. Garek is probably the most quizzically fascinating character that ever stepped foot on ST.

[Lieutenant_Q]

The reason it bounced around here, was that we didn't have a UPN station until season 5 of Voyager, and even then the UPN station's signal for those of us who don't want to spend big bucks on cable, is poor at best.

[Dash Jones]

I have to say there's ONE GIANT difference between DS9 and Babylon 5.  I hated/couldn't stand Babylon 5 and thought it more boring than watching grass grow.  I actually enjoyed DS9.  Much more so after the Got Worf.

[OlBuzzard]

If a new Trek airs on UPN, its doomed, if it airs on normal network, It will last because it is Trek.  Even Enterprise would have survived on another network.  Still...UPN was probably the best thing to happen to trek, B&B are gone!

Good point ...   really !

I think we sometimes forget that the original Trek series was only what ...  3 seasons?

Let's not burry Ceasar just yet.

As bas as NBC needs something right now .. it might be good for them  ( okie   I know ..  the net work thingy .. but hey !  It was on UPN !  and that is controlled here by an NBC affiliate !  Why Not ?)

[Father Ted]

They might want to take a stab at Enterprise B. Nothing's reallly been established at what happened to that ship. Plus it would be the opening phase of the Fed/Klink alliance, which makes for mischief...

[OlBuzzard]

They might want to take a stab at Enterprise B. Nothing's reallly been established at what happened to that ship. Plus it would be the opening phase of the Fed/Klink alliance, which makes for mischief...

hmmmm

not a bad idea !  Mischef for the Fedies .. and Klingon alike that might prefer to see both sides at each others throats as opposed to "at peace".

I kind a like that suggestion my self !   Throw in a lot of exploration stuff to keep a Trek theme (as oppossed to one of "war") ..  and that just might work !

[Mr_Tricorder]

They might want to take a stab at Enterprise B. Nothing's reallly been established at what happened to that ship. Plus it would be the opening phase of the Fed/Klink alliance, which makes for mischief...

That's a pretty good idea.  Also, we could have Sulu and his Excelsior drop in every once in a while.  However, after Enterprise and the new Star Wars movies, I'm absolutely sick of prequels.  As cool as it may be, I don't know if I can stomach a post-TMP/pre-TNG series right now.

I really believe that some new solid leadership in Star Trek needs to be established at Paramount along with a fresh crew of writers along with some of the best old Trek writers all with fresh new ideas before Star Trek should do anything.  Once they reach this state, it doesn't really matter which era they choose, it will be well done.

[E_Look]

Did you see how Riker and Troi appeared at the end of Enterprise?  I'm not sure I want Sulu to pop by a new Trek show anymore, shaking in cane at the whippersnappers and wasting internal sensor time and energy to locate his dentures...
... or get a younger guy to play Sulu...

[Father Ted]

The Riker and Troi scenes on the last episode of Enterprise reminded me of the Dallas dream season.

[Mr_Tricorder]

Did you see how Riker and Troi appeared at the end of Enterprise?  I'm not sure I want Sulu to pop by a new Trek show anymore, shaking in cane at the whippersnappers and wasting internal sensor time and energy to locate his dentures...
... or get a younger guy to play Sulu...

The last time we ever saw Sulu was in Star Trek VI, and he was already going grey.  The problem with Riker and Troi in Enterprise was that we know that they looked much older than they were supposed to at that particular time because we have seen the TNG episode that was from, the ones after it, and the movies.  This won't apply to Sulu because we've never seen him in anything that would take place after the Enterprise-B series we're discussing.  Paramount would have to make him appear younger than he does now, but it won't seem out of place like Riker and Troi did in Enterprise.

[E_Look]

Seriously, would ANY Star Service allow anyone they considered to be typically superannuated to be an active duty field member?  Maybe in the back offices or headquarters or their currency, but on a front line starship??

"Sickbay!  This is Captain Chief!  Get Admiral Rickover out of stasis and get Tactical to see what he thinks about my deployment along the Romulan border!"  "Bridge!  This is the Doctor 86!  Can you spare an antigrav unit so we can prop him up?  Or would you believe we can do it with a couple of big redshirts?"

[Lieutenant_Q]

Actually, we saw Takei in that Voyager Episode, Flashback?  Both he and Whitney put on A LOT of weight since we saw them in The Undiscovered Country.  Other than that, they really haven't changed a whole lot.  But, If you could get the actor that played Harriman and Demora Sulu back, you could have a good run on the B.  Heck could have an "Admiral Chekov" giving orders.  I think out of all of them, besides Nemoy, Koenig is the only one that still looks like he could play the role he played a decade and a half ago.

[J. Carney]

Koeing should make only the briefest of cameo apperances in the first show, and then only be seen on vidscreens and mentioned by name later on. Whether we go prequal, post-ST:VI, or post-TNG, we need to sever as much of the ties that bind as we can.

They need to go to a Trek convenetion and let people audition... people that love Trek. GEt folks that will be in it for what they are doing, andnot for how mch they are getting paid to do it.

[Mr_Tricorder]

I forgot about that Voyager episode (which is strange because I mentioned it in a post several days ago).  But he didn't look too old to play the part.  I thought it worked out great.  Besides, I'm not talking about regular appearances.  I think once or twice a season would be great, but regular appearances would be too much.

Admiral Checkov?  Did you happen to see his rank in Generations?  All those years in starfleet and he's still a Commander!  Even Captain Harriman who remembers learning about the Enterprise's adventures when he was in school outranks him.  Once again, poor Checkov gets the shaft.

[Dracho]

I would think there is enough raw footage that any star trak actor could be cut and inserted (ala Forrest Gump) and then do a voice-over for updated dialogue.

We have the technology...

[Mr_Tricorder]

I would think there is enough raw footage that any star trak actor could be cut and inserted (ala Forrest Gump) and then do a voice-over for updated dialogue.

We have the technology...

I wouldn't want to do that.  It just wouldn't seem genuine, and we Trekkies would see right through it.  I can name just about any TOS or TNG episode just by seeing a few seconds of it at almost any given part of the episode.  I can't quite say the same about DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise because I haven't watched re-runs of them nearly as often, but all of those actors still look about the same.

[Dracho]

The Trouble with Tribbles remake was.... interesting..

[Mr_Tricorder]

That was a good episode, but only because it was supposed to be a revisit of The Trouble With Tribbles.  If they tried to make a completely new TOS "episode" that Sisko and company visited, then it just wouldn't work.  Did you spot the scene at the end when Sisko finally got to meet Kirk?  That was from Mirror Mirror.  I half-expected to see Marlena instead of Sisko, and when the scene cut to him, it didn't seem quite right to me.

[Dracho]

Animation is getting pretty sophisticated too.  I wonder how long before you can't tell that it was really William Shatner, or a CGI replacement in Star Trek XXII?

[E_Look]

Simple.  Ol' Bill wouldn't look as hot as his animated self!