Topic: Why did Anakin Turn so quickly?

[Dash Jones]

Here's something that didn't make much sense to me in Episode III.

Annakin was partial to listening to the Emperor, true...but when he found out the Emperor was a Sith, he was horrified and shocked.

What's more is when he returned and found Windu standing over the Emperor and having to make a choice, he argued that Windu wasn't making the right choice as a Jedi should.  In that essence Annakin made the right choice, and stopped Windu from killing what appeared to him a downed opponent.

Of course that would be a hard choice, but HE didn't kill Windu, and he even had the point of being able to see Windu choosing a dark sided path.

So, though in a way he caused Windu to lose his defense, the only reason was because he stopped Windu from killing.  At that point, even though Windu died...it was the Emperor who killed Windu...Annakin at that point could have followed up and perhaps tried to bring the Emperor in, or even fled.

Instead he submitted?

In fact he did so completely that he then goes to the temple and leads the charge to kill everyone there and kills the younglings himself?

Wait a second...did I miss something?

Annakin, only seconds prior to that was arguing with Windu about the proper thing a Jedi should do...yes part of it was self interest, but part of it was because it would also be wrong to kill a downed opponent (much like Luke did not succumb to his anger in RotJ and slay Vader because Luke was a Jedi).

What the Heck...why in the World...

In fact, Annakin didn't even try to kill Windu...and he didn't really incapacitate him...but he did make Windu lose an arm and his lightsaber.

In essence, Annakin had TONS of other choices than suddenly turn completely evil in opposition to how he had been acting previously...so what in the world did Annakin change in that split second.

If Annakin had fled, or let the Emperor be captured as he was telling Windu to do, so the Emperor could be tried...the Emperor would still be alive for Annakin to try to get the secrets of life from...

So why didn't Annakin keep to his original plan (as it seemed he intended when he went to Windu, and what he kept arguing with Windu to do when Windu was at the Window...) instead of suddenly just saying...time to kill that idea...and be one with killing innocents?

[AlchemistiD]

Because GL wrote it that way?

Palpatine, or Sideous, is a manipulative bastard.  And young minds can be very malleable when shocked.  Pappatine took that opportunity to level the act on Anakin, who was already walking towards the dark path for a while (The Clone Wars series.).  Palpatine just gave Anakin's mind one last push, telling him he was responsible for Windu's death.  Not to mention having played on Anakin's fears for his wife.

In point of fact, Palpatine's been feeding Anakin's ego since Episode 2.  All of these things could have been factors.

[762_XC]

I totally agree Dash, and I think this was the weakest point of Ep 3.

But consider how Anakin lost his mother in Ep 2, at his frustration at his inablilty to stop it, and of his dreams of losing Padme (the same dreams he had before losting his mother). All of this was motivating him on a very base level, and Palp was holding the keys.

[Commander La'ra]

Ones of the pinnacles of the order giving in to his anger and moving to kill a helpless opponent just when Anakin is having a crisis of faith probably didn't help matters.   As a friend of mine said 'Mace faltered when Anakin most needed him to be the Jedi stud.'

[Hexx]

Although I'll say it's likely just bad writing- it does work (kinda) if you
consider that Anakin doesn't really want to become a Jedi.
He thinks he wants to be a Jedi- but he doesn't want to lose Padme etc,
IIRC he actually says two things-
1) It's not right (being against the Jedi code etc)
2) I need him- and I think this is the more important one.

Anakin is initially far more interested is keeping Pal around because he's convinced that only
the Emperor can help him prevent Padme's death, somethin he doesn't believe the Jedi care about.
And given their perceived slights so far, Anakin wouldn't have been thinking the council would
give him access to the Emperor to learn the secrets of the Sith.

[Sirgod]

Does anyone know If the new DVD goes into further development on this question? I know there where supposed to be Extra screens.

Stephen

[Dracho]

Perhaps because Anakin could not have beaten Palpatine at that moment in time, it was necessary for him to yield to him.  The Force could have been as responsible as any of the players.

Also consider than when Luke faced Darth Vader and lost his hand, Vader could still not yet have beaten the Emperor. It was only in a fit of rage at seeing his son about to be destroyed that allowed Vader the strength to destroy Palpatine.  But, that begs the question, did Vader really use the powerful forces of the Dark Side to vanquish the Emperor, and if he did, how was he ultimately saved in the end?

[762_XC]

It was not anger, but pity, and perhaps love.

Consider what Luke represented to what was left of Anakin at that point - a physical manifestation of his love for Padme, about to be destroyed by the same person who manipulated Anakin to the dark side in the first place.

Add the fact that Vader himself destroyed Padme with his own anger (and lived with the agony of that for years) and the last piece clicks into place. Could he really (through inaction) let the same thing happen to Luke?

[AlchemistiD]

Point. 

[el-Karnak]

Palpatine is like those old Mafia bosses. They get the new recruit to commit a murder, so that they can hold that over them forever.  Once Anakin aided and abetted the killing of Mace Windu, he was going down fast. Then Palpy got him to massacre people in the Temple to ensure that his place in the dark side was cemented. What would have heppened if Yoda had defeated Palpy in the Galactic Senate duel?  Anakin would have been put on trial for mulitiple aggravated murders.  That's if he behaved well enough to be put on trial; otherwise, Obiwan and Yoda would have whacked him.

Also, notice that Yoda insisted to Obi-wan that the Sith must be destroyed when they came back to the Jedi Temple after the Jedi Purge.  Even Yoda was not about to contemplate a trial for capture Sith lords. Just go out there and whack them.  Probably because the Jedi order knew from previous conflicts with the Sith that there was no reasoning with them and no room for mercy can be given. So, I think Windu was justified in trying to kill Palpy. Bad boy Anakin got all insubordinate on poor Windu and did not follow the counsel of his elders. Anakin's arrogance that he was a know-it-all helped him succumb to the dark side more than anything else.

[KBF-Kapact]

Does anyone know If the new DVD goes into further development on this question? I know there where supposed to be Extra screens.

Stephen

I've got the DVD, and I've seen the deleted scenes. I didn't notice anything extra on the subject. Interesting to note in the deleted scenes, the rebel alliance was already formning before everything went tango uniform 

[OlBuzzard]

For once Dash we totally agree.


If GL wanted to make the transition believeable .....   all he had to do was to leave young Skywalker in a state of indecisiveness ....  and someone else come up with evidence to result into the arrest of the Chancellor.

If Skywalker were meditating (as Jedi often do ) and suspected that the Chancellor was in danger  ....  and rushed to his side only to catch the near execution of a man he looked up to ..  you could see it:

A sudden, illadvised, knee jerk reaction that would have resulted in the death of a fellow Jedi ...  and then the twisted lies of the Sith to follow turning Skywalker away from his colleagues to the dark side.

BUT ..... with him choosing as he did to turn in the Chancellor...  AND agreeing to OBEY the Jedi request for him to say out of the matter until the deed was done ...

It was absurd for him to run to the side of evil for no apparent reason.

(just my own observations)

[J. Carney]

Here's a good course of action for all who thought the movie lacking- which is probably everyone:

READ THE NOVELIZATION!!!

It's 100% better and does a lot more with the 'seduction' angle of Anikin's fall.


Anikin in the movie reminded me of the big, dumb bulldogdog in the old Warner Brothers cartoons... "George is my Friend... he's SO smart!"... you know, that one. The one that was stupid and mindlessly devoted enough to let the little dog shove him around constantly?

Yeah... that was the movie version of Anikin Skywalker to me: "Ok, George... I'll go to the Dark Side! You're so smart George!" I SWEAR... NATILE PORTMAN HAD A BETTER WRITTEN CHARACTER!!!

In the book, Palpatine skillfully, carefuly gains Ainkin's trust and twists his perceptions with excrutiating deliberateness.

If you aren't satisfied with the movie, read the book.

"If your Sith Lord walked into this office RIGHT NOW and told me that he had the power to end this war, I'd bloody well offer him a brandy and TALK IT OUT WITH HIM!" - Chancelor Palpatine

[Lepton]

The whole set of movies was disappointing.  Not much more to say other than that.  Star Wars, good.  Empire Strikes Back, Dagobah stuff cool, Snowspeeders cool, all else hohum.  Jedi, a waste of time expect for Vader's turn back.  Phantom, a waste.  Clones, a relative waste.  Sith, had to wrap it up and he did.

[Sirgod]

Does anyone know If the new DVD goes into further development on this question? I know there where supposed to be Extra screens.

Stephen

I've got the DVD, and I've seen the deleted scenes. I didn't notice anything extra on the subject. Interesting to note in the deleted scenes, the rebel alliance was already formning before everything went tango uniform 

Thanks for the info there Kapact.

Stephen

[FPF-DieHard]

It was not anger, but pity, and perhaps love.

Wrong!  It was really bad writing.   I iked the movie but come onj, it was rushed.

[762_XC]

I was talking about ROTJ, not AOTC, so RTFA!

[Commander Maxillius]

I was talking about ROTJ, not AOTC, so RTFA!

[Soreyes]

Oh come on now. Every one knows that it's more fun to be EVIL

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Yes, this was the biggest let down of the film. We all knew in advance that Anakin was going to turn to the Darkside, and SW3 was supposed to show us exactly how that was done. Instead, I had the feeling that it was just... "there"... one moment Anakin is a Jedi, the next he becomes a Sith, because thats how it was supposed to happen. There wasn't enough 'psychological' credibility for Anakin's transformation to make it believable and it really needed more.