Topic: 'Nightmare' drove desperate user to open source

[Nemesis]

Proceeds to don Moderators hat:

There is no reasoning with Monty.  Might as well not bother.  He seems to be an apologist for Microsoft despite its well-earned negative public reputation and numerous monopoly lawsuits.

He makes any number of good points however they are semantic arguments at best.  When one is sued for being a monopoly and is forced to settle by national governments to that effect, you'd best believe in the court of law and public opinion that MS is a monopoly.

You are making assumptions as to FMMontys motivations and then launching what I would construe as a personal attack based on those assumptions.  Personal attacks of course are against the forum rules.  Please restrict yourself to attacking the ideas and facts not the person presenting them.

If you wish to know FMMontys motivations I suggest that you ask him and then if you think that his motivations don't make sense discuss them.

Your cooperation in this matter is appreciated.

[Javora]

If the silly legislation went through then people would make them.  Businesses fill holes, thats how they work.

Again Apple already challenged Microsoft in court over the GUI interface and lost.  Businesses is not going to fill this particular hole because there is nothing to fill.

Crap.  If Microshaft triple their prices then people will go with Linux.  There is competition, however the competition isn't as good.  Until either it becomes non geek friendly, or MS makes their product too expensive people won't touch it with a gimp pole. 

Could you name me one REAL monopoly that wasn't created by government?

No it is not crap just my opinion, I'm not telling you that your opinions are crap so a little respect in that regard would be appreciated.  This has been a very good discussion, lets not kill it now please.

As for people switching to Linux if Microsoft tripled their prices, I think you are making a much bigger assumption then I'd be willing to make.  My best guess is that the people would go back to the courts and scream monopoly again.  That doesn't mean that competition absolutely does not exist, it does but the competition can't do all the things that Windows can do (ie games).  Then again that is not exactly the competing operating systems fault either, I think games could play on other operating systems if they were made for them by the gaming companies.  That falls back to Microsofts market share and the competitions lack there of.

Microsoft wasn't created my Bill Gates??!?    And yes IMHO Microsoft is a monopoly, I guess that is something we are going to have to agree not to agree on.

It isn't that no one makes one, it is that there isn't a better one.  MS is a victim of their own success, and until they try to gouge the customer they will remain a success.

PS Apple have just changed to the same architecture as the PC, so the next Apple OS should be PC compatible.  That should make for some fun.

They have also added another mouse button (at last, heathens)

Actually I think that Apple's Mac OS X is far superior to Windows.  If you change that first sentence to "... it is that there isn't a better one" for the PC platform then I would agree with you whole heartedly.  While Apple is changing to the Intel platform, Apple is still using special Rom chips on the motherboard so people can't use OS X on any PC.  The way it stands now, the new Intel Mac's will be able to run Windows but PC's still can't run OS X.  Personally I think that Apple is testing the waters to see if he wants to drop the Apple hardware and sell the OS off the shelf.  IMHO that would be the best thing for Apple and consumers, but yeah as it stands now it should make for a whole lot of fun.

Yeah but the Apple mouse still sucks, I just read the review for their newest one and I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot USB cable. 

[Javora]

Actually, doesn't Bill Gates own a large block of Apple stock?

Yeah, here we go, back in 1997 Microsoft purchased $150 million in Apple stock..

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/cyberspace/july-dec97/apple_8-6.html

Sad, that could imply that Bill Gates and Microsoft has more confidence in Apple than Steve Jobs does.  The last time I heard, Steve Jobs sold all but one share of Apple stock.  Unless Steve Jobs bought Apple stock again since coming back as the CEO of Apple.

[Dracho]

It could also imply that Microsoft has an unseen hand in guiding where Apple is going...

[Javora]

It could also imply that Microsoft has an unseen hand in guiding where Apple is going...

*Shudders*

[Javora]

Hate to beat this dead horse but I found a good article that does a decent job of describing the current state of Linux.  I didn't want to start another thread since this one is still here.  Here is the link:

http://msn.com.com/2100-3513_22-5825524.html?part=msn&subj=ns_2543&tag=mymsn

Linux on the desktop--almost there again?
 
By Michael Singer, CNET News.com
Published on ZDNet News: August 9, 2005, 1:02 PM PT


SAN FRANCISCO--Despite their best attempts, Linux software companies say they are still having a hard time luring average consumers away from the Windows environment--but that may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Windows still dominates the PC world. About 90 percent of all desktops, laptops and even PDAs are powered by Microsoft, according to reports by Gartner and IDC. Even with all the hoopla last year about Linux progress, the buzz over breaking the Windows stronghold has died down considerably.

When it comes to the enterprise desktop, companies like Novell and Red Hat are making some progress, thanks to open-source projects such as Evolution, Firefox, KDE, GNOME, OpenOffice and Wine. But the companies still report adoption problems in the consumer space.

 

"We feel like it is a long road for us. It certainly has not a been an overnight shift," David Patrick, vice president and general manager of Novell's Linux, open-source and platforms services group, said during a press briefing at the LinuxWorld Conference and Expo, which is taking place here this week.

Novell seems to have made more progress than other companies, with its Suse Linux Professional edition for home users and Novell Linux Desktop for the corporate office.

Patrick said the company has the best success in fixed markets, as with the company's retail win with Ritz Camera and its new education contract with the state of Indiana, both announced Tuesday.

The company also released its OpenSuse project, which Patrick says will differ from Red Hat's Fedora project in that it will let consumers help identify key open-source projects before they are professionally developed.

Red Hat continues to dismiss any idea that it will offer a consumer version of its Enterprise Desktop Linux product, according to a company representative.

Expert Jeremy White, who wears a double hat as the go-to man at the Desktop Linux Consortium and as the founder and CEO of CodeWeavers, says the biggest roadblock to average-consumer adoption seems to be lack of hardware support, especially for gadgets like MP3 players.

"Last year, there was a lot of smoke but no fire when it came to Linux on the desktop," he said. "It is not the sexy story that it used to be. However, there are some very steady and irreversible trends. There are a lot of customers that tell us that they would adopt Linux in theory, but say, 'Gee, we would use Linux if only if it could run this one application.'"

The other barrier, according to White, seems to be the lack of software support by key manufacturers like Adobe Systems and Macromedia, which are strong supporters of Windows and Apple Computer's Mac OS X but rely more on third-party companies to help their applications run on Linux.

White also suggests that crossover products like AJAX, ThinkFree, VMware and Wine are actually creating a world where Windows and Linux coexist in harmony on the desktop. Such tools allow people to run Windows programs on non-Windows systems.

In some cases, Linux is working to the advantage of corporate buyers who, according to White, are not shy about having employees working on Linux-based operating systems when the Microsoft account managers pay a visit.

"They use it like a leveraging tool, kind of like threatening Microsoft to give them better discounts or lose out on their licensing accounts," White said, but added, "it's still Microsoft's game."

"In some ways," adds Brian Proffitt, editor of LinuxToday.com and co-author of "The Joy of Linux," "Linux on the desktop is almost irrelevant because of the shift towards Web-based applications.

"Linux in the enterprise is where you will see the most work being done these days because companies don't want all of those applications open at the bottom of a Windows tray. Ultimately, it comes down to what you want the Linux desktop to do."