Topic: "New" Players & Servers..

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Oh, BTW Soreyes you membership fees are in arears, I'm the collection officer for the month so just send me the check, I'll even waive the late fees since your a friend 

[Soreyes]

We KATS only required a simple bribe of nice singlemalt scotch to get in 

Damn Chuut is that all it takes to get in?   Heck J'inn told me I had to pay a "SMALL" gratuity to him to join

Well, I said KATs not KOTHs, the fact that J'inn is a KAT and had no authority over KOTH membership should have tipped you off, if it didn't in the word of PT Barnum "A sucker is born everyday".   

Hey I was a Newb....... I thought that all kATS were the same.    Boy did I learn the Hard Way that ain't so

[KBF-Kapact]

It does kinda seem like the rules are written by lawyers though....

Well, its up to the RM's to explain it in english. They have been round long enough to know that not spelling things out exactly leads to player issues and Admin troubles. Fortunately this server, iirc, not a single player issue came up before me from the RM's for me to wrestle with. That was cool... It was a smooth server no matter what anyone says. But I do agree with Kapact, the rules the server admin writes needs to be rewritten in short by the RM's for the players who cant read more than a paragraph.

That's very considerate, thinking about those more intellectually challenged than yourself. I'm actually a pretty bright person....I've been known to read six or seven paragraphs without having to sound out a single word.  I was just trying to point out that the average reader will see too many paragraphs and be put off from reading.

[Dizzy]

 I was just trying to point out that the average reader will see too many paragraphs and be put off from reading.

Like I said, Most of the rules are from an RM/admin perspective. There needs to be a player's concise handbook of rules and regulations. I aint doing it. Thats the job of the RM.

Know what? I never read the instruction manuals when I bring a shiny new tool home from Sears. Sears knows that, but they put it in there for when u screw up or hurt urself, ots ur own fault for not reading it. Why should I expect a player to read everything I write? I dont. In fact, I find players dont get much further than the pretty Orion Slave Girl pic and the instructions on how to D/L the installer. The rest gets explained on TS... 

[KBF-Kapact]

 I was just trying to point out that the average reader will see too many paragraphs and be put off from reading.

Like I said, Most of the rules are from an RM/admin perspective. There needs to be a player's concise handbook of rules and regulations. I aint doing it. Thats the job of the RM.

Know what? I never read the instruction manuals when I bring a shiny new tool home from Sears. Sears knows that, but they put it in there for when u screw up or hurt urself, ots ur own fault for not reading it. Why should I expect a player to read everything I write? I dont. In fact, I find players dont get much further than the pretty Orion Slave Girl pic and the instructions on how to D/L the installer. The rest gets explained on TS... 

That's okay. Just a difference between you and me.... I'm a writer by trade.... I don't write anything without the expectation (or hope anyway) of it being read. But I'm not trying to write the rules for a server. Just a novel, and a few columns. Hey, maybe if there was a standard set of rules always posted, and the variations could be released for the server. That way people could educate themselves as to general rules anytime they want, and when a new server comes up we can see what is different this time around.

[KBF MalaK]

no VP's were awarded for ship losses on SGO..

Dunno what all the stink was about. The only one that got yelled out on our side was Shin for wasting a BB, hehe. And he deserved it. Shin's not a newb, but you'll never see a newb on their own taking out a BB into a knife fight and thinking they will 'learn to play the game' that way, hehe. It's not something newbs do.

They ARE fretful of losing ships. And RM's need to encourage them to do so. F9thKirk lost quite a few ships but not ONCE did anyone bitch about it. We kept telling him and others that getting wasted (cept shin) was the best way to learn. You cant learn if you keep disengaging w/o a fight. You have to push it... get killed and in doing so figuring out your limits. But it doesnt help with a server designed to punish players for getting killed. Kirk is the kind of player I want back on my team the next server. He contributed every day, flipped hexes, always asked to be included in Ops and was just a morale boost to have on the team. The fact he was willing to engage and lose ships yet keep trying undaunted shows me he is interested in becoming a pvp player. Thats an awesome attitude.

So, despite the way I setup the Victory Points to factor in PvP and the fact that no one side on any round earned VP's for pvp engagements, peeps are still bitching. I guess I didnt explain them well enough despite the fact they worked as intended... But apparently not well enough to bust the stigma newbs have of losing a ship and feeling they are hurting the team...

Following this thought process, I'll be adding another idea for SGO6, I think it's time to directly address a newbs point of view and get them into the game with 'Newb Points'. Rather than using the rules set I had which pretty much made sure no one scored any VP's off PvP play, I think this direct newb PvP approach may pan out better for them...

Newb Points would be given out by RM's to players at the start of the game. These newbs would use them in one of two ways. If in a PvP they die, they use one of their few Newb Points and their death isnt counted. If they score a kill, then they need to give up a newb point for it to count. This way, a newb doesnt have to fret over hurting the team if they die and  helps them contribute better. Damn I'm good... I was a newb once too ya know. Looking back this seems to be a good idea. I'll let Tracey G come up with a politically correct terminology for it tho. hehe

Lets delve further a bit on a seperate topic. Some are complaining there needs to be more of a penalty for ace players. Well, I penalized the top two players from each team by placing a bounty on their heads. That would make them work harder to make up for what they lost, and thus balance it out their high kill totals. Was the bounty not high enough? Perhaps it should be based on the players kills percentage?

Sorry to quote that monster message, but there's a flaw in this plan as once a newb starts losing ships eventually they can't afford to arm the basic ship so eventually they fall into a never ending cycle of losing ships. You'd have to award prestige points to let the noob buy a decent ship once they run outta prestige of their own.

PvP points are nice but the noobs need an edge. Maybe only let the noobs have the X ships on a server, but someone'll have to decide which ones of us are the noobs.

[762_XC]

Giving n00bs X-ships won't be doing them any favors. You certainly won't learn how to fly anything else that way.

Problem is people only want to fly heavy cheese on GSA. We need to organize some training.

DH!!!!!

[KBF-Crim]

Well...a new player is pretty obvious to most peeps....

And notification can be as simple as posting it in open chat...

I still say that a truely new player should be exempt from the entire process....their actions neither benifit nor punish the empire they logged in under...if you choose to fly against a new player and lose your ship...it counts for naught....if you choose to fight a new player and beat him...it counts for naught...

No matter how serious or not the empires and fleets are playing a current DV campaign...we dont often take the time to both welcome and instruct new players...even if they are flying for the other team...

The senario I propose make the most sence....because there is no incentive for someone to "fake" being a new player...not that anyone would do such a thing...

[KBF MalaK]

well, if a couple of noobs team up and happen to catch hexx or dizzy alone and win they can't keep the points because they're noobs
-or-
they same situation, but the noobs have xships (or droners) they win and they keep the points. imagine how well they'll feel and want to come back and play,  and since only the noobs can pilot the xships, the sides will be out looking for noobs to fly them, and they'll be training them so they don't lose them.

guess what I'd choose.
  just my 2 cents

[FPF-DieHard]

Problem is people only want to fly heavy cheese on GSA. We need to organize some training.

DH!!!!!

So we can have 7 vets show up to train Duck's Kid?

[Soreyes]

Problem is people only want to fly heavy cheese on GSA. We need to organize some training.

Well I can help by training the newer players in the fine art of " Hitting the Enemy where there not"  or "The joys of deep striking"

[KBF-Kurok]

actualy i think putting the nooobs in an x ship is hurting them. The things they realy need to learn are using your resourses power and such. By putting them in a ship that dosent have near the shortcommings in my opinion is doing them wrong.
Where they realy need to work is in the smaller ships where it is more critical that you manage these things.Teaching them things like phaser slider bars setting esg's and such proper range to fire your weapons effects of ecm and eccm and such.
just my 2 cents
Kurok

[FPF-DieHard]

People need to learn ALL eras.   The differences and the Evolution of Tactics are what make this game wonderful.

[KBF MalaK]

believe me, I'd rather have the training but I'm sure not going to insult nor inconvience one of the 'lifers' by asking them to train me. But for the record I used to love flying hvy cruisers till I got droned to death by a 'lifer' flying a FF last campaign. NEVER AGAIN, I only fly cheese now and avoid PvP at all costs.

[Mog]

Malak, I'm assuming you fly Klingon going from your pic. Once the D5s are out, fly them. Far better arcs and power curve than the D7s.

Drone defence: fly a bit faster than the drones (obviously this excludes fast ones - see later), and manuever so that the droner doesn't cross your T. You want to be flying parallel to the droner, so that you can use your dissies and ph1s to keep hitting him at range 8.99 or less, constantly. Turn off your phaser point defence; don't need it if you're going faster (plus youhave AMD). Continue to do this till you either run him out of drones (at which point he'll run to the border), or you do enough internals so that he can't keep speed up to be able to escape.

A tip for using dissies in a D5 hull. Turn one pair off and overload the other pair - more accuracy for the same damage and power usage as for 4 standards. Also, once the D5L is out, get in that. It's a great droner killer.

For fast drones, make sure you're in a ship that can do speed 31. Fast drones are speed 32, and have 3 turns duration. As long as you stay outside of range 3, they can't hit you. The rest of the above tactics are valid.

[Hexx]

believe me, I'd rather have the training but I'm sure not going to insult nor inconvience one of the 'lifers' by asking them to train me. But for the record I used to love flying hvy cruisers till I got droned to death by a 'lifer' flying a FF last campaign. NEVER AGAIN, I only fly cheese now and avoid PvP at all costs.

When DH is in the mood he runs some great training stuff, he'll announce it here
Problem is (as mentioned) it's usually a bunch of vets and only one (if that) new player that
shows.


But take the PVP's watch what the other guy does and try and emulate it for attacks, or try different things
to defend against it. Yes you'll probably lose at first, but one of fights you'll suddenly decide to do something that works, and works well..

[Riskyllama]

Sorry to quote that monster message, but there's a flaw in this plan as once a newb starts losing ships eventually they can't afford to arm the basic ship so eventually they fall into a never ending cycle of losing ships. You'd have to award prestige points to let the noob buy a decent ship once they run outta prestige of their own.

PvP points are nice but the noobs need an edge. Maybe only let the noobs have the X ships on a server, but someone'll have to decide which ones of us are the noobs.

     Training doesnt have to be IP games or Gamespy. If a rookie (sounds much nicer than noob, noob is something else in my book) takes an expensive ship, make sure a vet is winging him. Break up your fleeting partner preferences. Cover that rookie, teach him tricks against the AI so once you hit livefire...he's ready. The only reason I survive half of my engagements is tricks i learned flying against AI with a vet showing me how to do it right if it were human. Braxton, Chuut, Dib and Krueg and the rest of the KBF, DFly, DH, Direwolf, Dizzy, Hexx, Frey, Freedom, the FSD guys, Saxon, Soreyes, Tobin(that aid during the Gamespy match was invaluable), 762, Duck and the KHH crew, and several notable others(nothing personal if I didnt list you, but space and my bad memory permitting) all taught me tricks that I've used.
     Alot of the time it was just hex flipping that I picked this stuff up. These pilots were all nice enough to break off from their buddies or team up in larger groups to teach and protect me over just the last few months and servers. All of these pilots are spread out across the different races and some across different time zones. If there are new pilots, I would bet that one of these mentioned and many others would be quick to lend a hand to make sure any rookie keeps his ship.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I usually try to hook newer or inexperienced pilots with vets just for that purpose.
IP games are good for training in many aspects, but with the mission variety on most server warrants some training there as well.
When I first came to the D2 it was a far cry from the GSA matches I was used to.
Ask any player who has done the same about the differences. 
How many have been captured not realizing that when you use all your Boarding Parties you're leaving yourself wide open...
But, I do definity agree learning Energy management, ideal weapons ranges, etc. are critical to any player. Many players don't ven know how to set power priority, how much ECM affects weapons hitting etc.
And many of those neat Little tricks you can get just by reading the Manuel that comes with the game...

[KBF-Crim]

I usually try to hook newer or inexperienced pilots with vets just for that purpose.
IP games are good for training in many aspects, but with the mission variety on most server warrants some training there as well.
When I first came to the D2 it was a far cry from the GSA matches I was used to.
Ask any player who has done the same about the differences. 
How many have been captured not realizing that when you use all your Boarding Parties you're leaving yourself wide open...
But, I do definity agree learning Energy management, ideal weapons ranges, etc. are critical to any player. Many players don't ven know how to set power priority, how much ECM affects weapons hitting etc.
And many of those neat Little tricks you can get just by reading the Manuel that comes with the game...

Bah...overly complicated...

A)...fly like a berzerker....

B)... hammer the "Z" key...

 

[Hexx]

We should have some "volunteers" for each race write up some basic piloting guides, nothing fancy, but
some basic stuff
Get rid of some of the stereotypes-
For example all the "early" Lyran guides go on about "managing power" and how you have to keep
changing everything if you want to fly- it's crap

Yes those pilots (I assume anyway) who are constantly moving the sliders around will tend to do better
But I can count the number of times I've done anything but set
Move-1
ECM-2
Weapons-3
or moved the capacitor bar on one hand
and all joking aside I've still won more than I've lost flying Lyran

teach them the basics, that (for example)
- if you're trying to outrun spd 32 drones, you better turn off the
4OL Disrupters you're holding.
-That you'll rarely hit against a 2ECM shift, that some races can't go toe to toe with other races
(I'm still working on this one)
-That spd 24 drones can be ignored 90% of the time
-That you will fail that 99.9% HET you need to pass to survive
-That you will pass that 1% HET that doesn't mean anything