Topic: "New" Players & Servers..

[Sochin]

As a fairly new player, SGO5 was my 4th campaign, I think I might be a little better placed to help you on this one. My campaigns have been General War 4 & 5 and Slave Girls 4 & 5. New Players basically, in my opinion and looking at my fleets personnel as reference, are made up of two groups of players. The first group is the returning rusty player who gets into the swing of things quickly once handed a few harsh lessons. The second is the SFC3 player trying to get into OP. When Dizzy asked about SFC3 its is very apparent that OP has a massive learning curve compaired to SFC3, where as 3 is tactical OP is very technical and as with the chat with Dizzy in the long run OP can be very rewarding for most of the players and this is where the problem is. Its just taking me till know to learn the basics of OP for me to feel at least semi confident.

With the General War servers and a lesser extent SGO4 the ship lists are in my opinion to restrictive, if its going to take a couple of campaigns to learn the trade so to speak then giving the new player something with a little more toys on the extras list might be a good idea. This in my opinion will give at least some pleasure and help to retain some of the newer players. Also some of the Karnak missions are drawing target vessels out of BPV which scares the Jesus out of us new pilots, given time and experience this is overcome but it does take time. In my opinion these scripts need looking into. It seems that the rules are indeed written by lawyers, simplification of the rules might be in order.

The next point is a little more contentious. It has come to my attention through other new pilots that certain veteran players attitude to PVP doesnt help. I have had a number of my pilots who wont pick up OP again because of the attitude leveled at them for not staying in combat or for leaving a target area when hounded for combat. Taking into account the learning curve for this game PVP for the new player isnt something taken lightly. Remember once you veterans where "noobs". I would also council for the veterans to be proactive when new players come online, I dont think its a good idea for new pilots to be running around asking who wants a wingman. Jump on the pilot and get him on your wing and teach him / her a little. With that in mind though SGO5 has had a more relaxed feel about it, personally I have found it one of the best campaigns I have participated in a while.

Recommendations

1. I would reccomend that players be categorised by the veterans, I would suggest Novice - Intermediate - Experienced - Veteran. This in turn gives the RM's something to go off when allocating or receiving ship requests. This will give a good indication as to what the pilot is capable of flying, not everyone is a Heavy Metal pilot.

2. The setting up of a training server for those that wish to get their teeth into DV play, with veteran assistance to teach them.

3. Think a bit more about the ship lists, give a little to all the skill levels.

4. Take the new pilots under your wing, they may turn out to be fairly decent given the chance.

[KBF-Kapact]

I joined the Black Fleet a long time ago, and for the longest time, I couldn't win a single engagement. But, yeah, they stuck with me, and there was never any talk about how bad I was doing  or how little time I could spend in PvP because of my slow dialup. Now I'm better.... still lots of practice needed, but I can hold my own. Nobody ever made any issue of what kind of ship I got into (except when I picked one I wasn't supposed to have), and nobody ever hesitated to fly with me. That's why I'm so loyal to KBF, and why I still say this is the best online community. I've found that veterans pretty much take care of Newbies. It does kinda seem like the rules are written by lawyers though....

[Dizzy]

It does kinda seem like the rules are written by lawyers though....

Well, its up to the RM's to explain it in english. They have been round long enough to know that not spelling things out exactly leads to player issues and Admin troubles. Fortunately this server, iirc, not a single player issue came up before me from the RM's for me to wrestle with. That was cool... It was a smooth server no matter what anyone says. But I do agree with Kapact, the rules the server admin writes needs to be rewritten in short by the RM's for the players who cant read more than a paragraph.

[Soreyes]

When I was on and not running for my life  I had a chance to hook up with a few of the new people on some missions. It was allways fun. Now far be it that I should try to teach someone tactics  but it was fun trying to show them little tricks of the game. Like how to tell if that planet you are about to assalt, is armed or not. Not to fret getting EEK missons.... I mean come on now you just can't pull a I-CAZV in your Z-DF all the time. And when to RUN!!!!!  Case in point. Kirk and myself jumping into a hex with Z-DFs, and finding Frey and Tool  in there already flying a I-CV and a H-DN of some sort. I think my suggestion was "Throw drones over our shoulders and RUN!!!!)

[Father Ted]

As a fairly new player, SGO5 was my 4th campaign, I think I might be a little better placed to help you on this one. My campaigns have been General War 4 & 5 and Slave Girls 4 & 5. New Players basically, in my opinion and looking at my fleets personnel as reference, are made up of two groups of players. The first group is the returning rusty player who gets into the swing of things quickly once handed a few harsh lessons. The second is the SFC3 player trying to get into OP. When Dizzy asked about SFC3 its is very apparent that OP has a massive learning curve compaired to SFC3, where as 3 is tactical OP is very technical and as with the chat with Dizzy in the long run OP can be very rewarding for most of the players and this is where the problem is. Its just taking me till know to learn the basics of OP for me to feel at least semi confident.

With the General War servers and a lesser extent SGO4 the ship lists are in my opinion to restrictive, if its going to take a couple of campaigns to learn the trade so to speak then giving the new player something with a little more toys on the extras list might be a good idea. This in my opinion will give at least some pleasure and help to retain some of the newer players. Also some of the Karnak missions are drawing target vessels out of BPV which scares the Jesus out of us new pilots, given time and experience this is overcome but it does take time. In my opinion these scripts need looking into. It seems that the rules are indeed written by lawyers, simplification of the rules might be in order.

The next point is a little more contentious. It has come to my attention through other new pilots that certain veteran players attitude to PVP doesnt help. I have had a number of my pilots who wont pick up OP again because of the attitude leveled at them for not staying in combat or for leaving a target area when hounded for combat. Taking into account the learning curve for this game PVP for the new player isnt something taken lightly. Remember once you veterans where "noobs". I would also council for the veterans to be proactive when new players come online, I dont think its a good idea for new pilots to be running around asking who wants a wingman. Jump on the pilot and get him on your wing and teach him / her a little. With that in mind though SGO5 has had a more relaxed feel about it, personally I have found it one of the best campaigns I have participated in a while.

Recommendations

1. I would reccomend that players be categorised by the veterans, I would suggest Novice - Intermediate - Experienced - Veteran. This in turn gives the RM's something to go off when allocating or receiving ship requests. This will give a good indication as to what the pilot is capable of flying, not everyone is a Heavy Metal pilot.

2. The setting up of a training server for those that wish to get their teeth into DV play, with veteran assistance to teach them.

3. Think a bit more about the ship lists, give a little to all the skill levels.

4. Take the new pilots under your wing, they may turn out to be fairly decent given the chance.

I remember trying to train D3 players on the original AOTK. They didn't know about power curve, taking time to charge the photons, and then throw in the original Evil Dave missions! That was not fun. But one particular mission was truly galling. JB and I were flying against AI with a newbie(who I'd flown with before, and fussed at about what follows), all of us in CLC's. JB and I stayed back to overload the photons, but this guy rushes out of the gate at 31, despite both of us practically screaming at him on chat to stop and load weapons. He proceeded to get gutted and turned into dust by three Rommies which it took JB and me about three minutes to waste. I don't mind training newbies, but for God's sake, get TS and listen! 

PS: That's not directed at you or Kirk, both of whom played magnificently, and it's nice to see the 9th coming back to its roots. Now, just get Nanner, Sparty, Albino and Ol' Buzz to get on a server!

[SkyFlyer]

But it took awhile before I became th PVP demon I am today...

Oh yess Hexx... You instill... HAHAH oh man...

fear.... LOL WOW THIS IS KILLER... in all of... omgosh haha.. u... lol wow... us. ROFL.

[el-Karnak]

New players should be able to PP farm into a regular CA ships within an hour.  I always like ISC because once you get a Frog CA ship then you have a really good ship to PvP with.

[Kzinbane]

Chuut, I wasn't trying to make any specific accusation(s).  I "know" you guys and understand why most people do what they're doing.  My point is that noob's don't - and could easily get put off and leave by unintentional slights.
Just the idea that "thou shalt have voice coms" gets to me a bit.  I had them at one time, found it mostly useless and also that it putzed with my stability.  I shouldn't have to have voice coms to be welcome and have fun though.

The trick is to have the "old hats" welcoming to new players as they log on.  Use good ol' chat & nicely say hi and ask nicely that they work in such and such sectors if they want P vs P or flip hexes in certain areas if they're PP farming (or have unstable connections).

My observation after a year or more off is that if anything people are taking servers even MORE seriously than they used to!  No one plays "fun" servers because they are not "serious".  Whatever that means.  Players get into their hunting and don't want interference from others in their plans.  Players insist that if you're not on the forum(s) you really shouldn't be playing yet.

Please, no one needs to get defensive - I am not intending to fire shots at anyone!  What I want is to have more players come along and have fun, feel welcome and join in this crazy bunch.  Eve stole a lot of players and sooner or later another game will wander along and derail more.  We cannot afford to be anything but welcoming and just grit our teeth if a noob looses a Battleship or whatever - because it really IS a game designed to have fun with, after all.

Lest you think  it's all negative - no.  AOTKII was fun.  SG looks like it was - though it got to serious looking for me to feel like joining in after being delayed in starting.  Some of the new server ideas are good (even Hexx's) and would be fun to try out.
WE just need to be sure we have an open door policy and a bounty or point system that isn't so restrictive or taken so serously that newbies (or old farts for that matter) start to feel like there are better and more fun things to do.

Kzinbane

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

I, too, took time out on SG5 to help some newer players, specifically teaching them how to fly Lyran. I felt this was more important welcoming newer players than going after VCs, and in one instance, doing so cost me a ship. Nor do all of our players have english as a first language. I spent quite a bit of time with Xtrahsis (spelling?) who is German and he did very well coping with my Australian accent, but well worth the effort.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Chuut, I wasn't trying to make any specific accusation(s).  I "know" you guys and understand why most people do what they're doing.  My point is that noob's don't - and could easily get put off and leave by unintentional slights.
Just the idea that "thou shalt have voice coms" gets to me a bit.  I had them at one time, found it mostly useless and also that it putzed with my stability.  I shouldn't have to have voice coms to be welcome and have fun though.

The trick is to have the "old hats" welcoming to new players as they log on.  Use good ol' chat & nicely say hi and ask nicely that they work in such and such sectors if they want P vs P or flip hexes in certain areas if they're PP farming (or have unstable connections).

My observation after a year or more off is that if anything people are taking servers even MORE seriously than they used to!  No one plays "fun" servers because they are not "serious".  Whatever that means.  Players get into their hunting and don't want interference from others in their plans.  Players insist that if you're not on the forum(s) you really shouldn't be playing yet.

Please, no one needs to get defensive - I am not intending to fire shots at anyone!  What I want is to have more players come along and have fun, feel welcome and join in this crazy bunch.  Eve stole a lot of players and sooner or later another game will wander along and derail more.  We cannot afford to be anything but welcoming and just grit our teeth if a noob looses a Battleship or whatever - because it really IS a game designed to have fun with, after all.

Lest you think  it's all negative - no.  AOTKII was fun.  SG looks like it was - though it got to serious looking for me to feel like joining in after being delayed in starting.  Some of the new server ideas are good (even Hexx's) and would be fun to try out.
WE just need to be sure we have an open door policy and a bounty or point system that isn't so restrictive or taken so serously that newbies (or old farts for that matter) start to feel like there are better and more fun things to do.

Kzinbane

Good points Kzinbane, definately a product of the increase in server restrictions from the old days.  With disengagement rules and PvP VCs there is definately more emphasis on winning each battle.  It has pros and cons, but I'd place myself in the group favoring the older style servers that were a tad less serious even though I can usually find some fun in most servers except those with excessive OOB or other restrictions and I just sit those out and play other games.

[KBF-Crim]

As far as new players,

Like Crim said, Just simply don't count their kills and don't count it when they make a kill.  No counted kills= no embarassing posts.

However, since they might be in a big ship and be chasing off people form hexes, I think their disengagement penalties might be doubled when they are flying a ship normally worth VCs.   

Ohhhhh...get chased off by a (widely known noob) and get REALLY embarassed....

I LOVE IT!

[KBF-Crim]

I, too, took time out on SG5 to help some newer players, specifically teaching them how to fly Lyran. I felt this was more important welcoming newer players than going after VCs, and in one instance, doing so cost me a ship. Nor do all of our players have english as a first language. I spent quite a bit of time with Xtrahsis (spelling?) who is German and he did very well coping with my Australian accent, but well worth the effort.

I would pay good money to hear you on voice comms...A million years ago Heavenly-ICOP and Ausie dream (sisters to boot) used to frequent M-player...Both where excellent pilots....and both had that soft aussie accent that can melt the heart of any yank...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I would pay good money to hear you on voice comms...

Fly Federation and you won't have to pay a cent 

[OlBuzzard]

PS: That's not directed at you or Kirk, both of whom played magnificently, and it's nice to see the 9th coming back to its roots. Now, just get Nanner, Sparty, Albino and Ol' Buzz to get on a server!

....perhaps some day.  I'm trying to make arrangements for someone to take my private web site ( primarily used to remote host picts of WIP stuff for models, web art, etc ...  and will hopefully have DSL in a few weeks.

At the time I'm working on some models

We have 5 or 6  ships that are nearing completion  ( only a couple of which might be used in a OP mod ) They are as follows:

1.  Late TNG Fed Star Base
2.  USS Titan ( my personal design)
3.  USS Mako (late TNG Miranda concept)
4.  USS Alabama (TMP Fed BB )
5.  USS Iowa (late TMP/ preTNG cross Fed BB)
6.  X-29 fighter ( from the "Last Patrol" novel)

(USS Bass Master refit ...  TBA ..  )

some of these I'd actually like to get completed in the next 2 or 3 weeks.

I do plan on a return of some sorts ... but for now completing these will hopefull make a better contribution to the SFC community.  (unless you guys are really hard up for comic relief.

[KBF-Crim]

I joined the Black Fleet a long time ago, and for the longest time, I couldn't win a single engagement. But, yeah, they stuck with me, and there was never any talk about how bad I was doing  or how little time I could spend in PvP because of my slow dialup. Now I'm better.... still lots of practice needed, but I can hold my own. Nobody ever made any issue of what kind of ship I got into (except when I picked one I wasn't supposed to have), and nobody ever hesitated to fly with me. That's why I'm so loyal to KBF, and why I still say this is the best online community. I've found that veterans pretty much take care of Newbies. It does kinda seem like the rules are written by lawyers though....

Yeah?..well...we only keep you around to make the rest of us look like we dont totally suck...*snicker*

Just kidding Brother!

It is said..." you do not find the KBF...the KBF finds you"

In my case..I had flown klingon exclusively for ages...since before the TFD(task force delphinus) aka "the inner circle" left...

I flew many a server as a privateer as "Crimnick"...happy to have a wing...or content to fly solo...allways fighting for my empire...blow out or not...(and yes...some of those servers where dark times for the Klingon empire...almost as bad and the Lyrans had it)

I was floored when Doggy asked me if I would like to join...and honored beyond words to join such warriors...

We've had our share of charactors for sure...and I (as well as others) try our utmost to uphold the traditions that made the KBF both feared and respected...

Honor...sportsmanship...instruction....brotherhood...

We are all equals...bound by a love for the game and our empire...our leaders lead, because they are the ones best suited to do so...not out of status or ego..

Membership is a lifetime affair.....two days gone...or two years...all warriors are welcome to fight as much...or as little as they have time for...and every member is welcomed back to the empire like the brothers they are...

The primary pre-requesit for membership is:

You flew for your empire,

When no one asked it of you...

When you where out numbered 5 to 1, and still showed up...

When you had more ships blown out from under you than you could afford...but didnt log off...

When you put empire before fleet or independance...

and that you did those things when you thought no one was watching....without complaint nor boast...

I am as honored to be a member of the Black fleet today...as I was the first day....

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I joined the Black Fleet a long time ago, and for the longest time, I couldn't win a single engagement. But, yeah, they stuck with me, and there was never any talk about how bad I was doing  or how little time I could spend in PvP because of my slow dialup. Now I'm better.... still lots of practice needed, but I can hold my own. Nobody ever made any issue of what kind of ship I got into (except when I picked one I wasn't supposed to have), and nobody ever hesitated to fly with me. That's why I'm so loyal to KBF, and why I still say this is the best online community. I've found that veterans pretty much take care of Newbies. It does kinda seem like the rules are written by lawyers though....

Yeah?..well...we only keep you around to make the rest of us look like we dont totally suck...*snicker*

Just kidding Brother!

It is said..." you do not find the KBF...the KBF finds you"

In my case..I had flown klingon exclusively for ages...since before the TFD(task force delphinus) aka "the inner circle" left...

I flew many a server as a privateer as "Crimnick"...happy to have a wing...or content to fly solo...allways fighting for my empire...blow out or not...(and yes...some of those servers where dark times for the Klingon empire...almost as bad and the Lyrans had it)

I was floored when Doggy asked me if I would like to join...and honored beyond words to join such warriors...

We've had our share of charactors for sure...and I (as well as others) try our utmost to uphold the traditions that made the KBF both feared and respected...

Honor...sportsmanship...instruction....brotherhood...

We are all equals...bound by a love for the game and our empire...our leaders lead, because they are the ones best suited to do so...not out of status or ego..

Membership is a lifetime affair.....two days gone...or two years...all warriors are welcome to fight as much...or as little as they have time for...and every member is welcomed back to the empire like the brothers they are...

The primary pre-requesit for membership is:

You flew for your empire,

When no one asked it of you...

When you where out numbered 5 to 1, and still showed up...

When you had more ships blown out from under you than you could afford...but didnt log off...

When you put empire before fleet or independance...

and that you did those things when you thought no one was watching....without complaint nor boast...

I am as honored to be a member of the Black fleet today...as I was the first day....

Damn Crimmy that was nice!

We KATS only required a simple bribe of nice singlemalt scotch to get in 

Seriously though, those are damn good qualities that you mention <S> to the KBF 

[KBF-Crim]

Well..they let me in and shot that all to hell...*snicker*

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Well..they let me in and shot that all to hell...*snicker*

las long as you brought them bloodwine, I'm sure it was all good 

[Soreyes]

We KATS only required a simple bribe of nice singlemalt scotch to get in  

Damn Chuut is that all it takes to get in?   Heck J'inn told me I had to pay a "SMALL" gratuity to him to join

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

We KATS only required a simple bribe of nice singlemalt scotch to get in 

Damn Chuut is that all it takes to get in?   Heck J'inn told me I had to pay a "SMALL" gratuity to him to join

Well, I said KATs not KOTHs, the fact that J'inn is a KAT and had no authority over KOTH membership should have tipped you off, if it didn't in the word of PT Barnum "A sucker is born everyday".