Topic: "New" Players & Servers..

[Hexx]

As part of an ongoing debate it's been mentioned to me that my serve idea adds nothing to the game
and penalizes new or less skilled players.

I don't think it does, but I'm bored and though I'd try a new debate

Should a brand new player be encouraged to jump in and fly a BCH/DN/BB
because it's "fun", yet when that new player is toasted by a much smaller ship it's posted and talked about?

Or should they be encouraged to fly more of the CCH/CWL until they've learned to use the basic ship systems to their
fullest?

While I certainly wouldn't deny anyone the chance to fly what they want, I think it would be better to encourage them fly a
smaller ship to get the feel for it.

I can't help but notice that while many people have said that they should be allowed to fly whatver they want, the same people still
laugh when the new player is killed by a much smaller ship. It would seem to me that this isn't actually helping us attract new players
as much as it is setting them up to be humiliated.

[KBF-Kapact]

As part of an ongoing debate it's been mentioned to me that my serve idea adds nothing to the game
and penalizes new or less skilled players.

I don't think it does, but I'm bored and though I'd try a new debate

Should a brand new player be encouraged to jump in and fly a BCH/DN/BB
because it's "fun", yet when that new player is toasted by a much smaller ship it's posted and talked about?

Or should they be encouraged to fly more of the CCH/CWL until they've learned to use the basic ship systems to their
fullest?

While I certainly wouldn't deny anyone the chance to fly what they want, I think it would be better to encourage them fly a
smaller ship to get the feel for it.

I can't help but notice that while many people have said that they should be allowed to fly whatver they want, the same people still
laugh when the new player is killed by a much smaller ship. It would seem to me that this isn't actually helping us attract new players
as much as it is setting them up to be humiliated.

I agree....

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Well, there is some merit to this. Some of you who may know Aurora from the Hot and Spicy forum, may not realise that in fact she does have OP, and its all patched up, and ready to play. She even had SG5 installed on her system, but basically, having never played the game before, she was simply too afraid of being killed and losing points for what ever team she was on, to actually get on and fly.

So yes, without a doubt, our current server rules do not encourage new players.

[Hexx]

Well, there is some merit to this. Some of you who may know Aurora from the Hot and Spicy forum, may not realise that in fact she does have OP, and its all patched up, and ready to play. She even had SG5 installed on her system, but basically, having never played the game before, she was simply too afraid of being killed and losing points for what ever team she was on, to actually get on and fly.

So yes, without a doubt, our current server rules do not encourage new players.

Clarity of rules  would be another thing we need then.. no VP's were awarded for ship losses on SGO..

people have to realize that being killed isn't a bad thing

My first D2 PVP was against Dizzy, he was flying some sort of Fed CC/CA with a freighter (don't know why.. it was a long time ago) I managed to kill the freighter
with a F5D, then Dizzy stomped me.
Probably was 30 or 40 PVP's after that that I managed my second PVP kill.
The it was awhile again..
I actually didn't start breaking even until i started flying Lyran (well, awhile after i started flying Lyran)
Then I figured out that I didn't outgun Hydran ships at PB range and it's been uphill ever since.

But it took awhile before I became th PVP demon I am today...

[Strat]

I'd say a powerful well rounded Light Cruiser.  Mabey Heavy cruiser.  Perhaps depending on the era of the server thus far.
Something that has enough power to move easy and weapons to do decent damage.  Something thats wasy to experiment with.
Definately not Frigate or BB's.  Those are to much a side of the spectrum.

Also I'd say a lot of patient and encouraging support.

New guys need a reason to play a game this old and hard to come by.
So make it a pleasurable game, and a supportive community.
Why would they want to go anywhere else? 

Having read some other posts metioning it, don't go to to much trouble to make a server molded for a new person. They need a goal, someplace that demands growth.  If they have personal motivation, all the more they will enjoy winning.  Perhaps having them join other experienced guys when at all possible will be a benfit to them.  Letting them learn from others and also have the company will amke a difference I belive. Just don';t worry to much about newer guys when making servers.

Just my 2c

Strat

[Green]

As part of an ongoing debate it's been mentioned to me that my serve idea adds nothing to the game
and penalizes new or less skilled players.

Damn good question Hexx.  I tend to believe that new or less skilled players shouldn't be encouraged to fly a DN for the reasons you've stated.  But see no problems if they do.  It is a game afterall.

However, given that you are one of the D2's long term players here and certainly not new to the game, the caveat that less skilled players shouldn't be allowed to fly a BB, DN, or BCH would limit you to only CWLs and such.  Are you sure you want to go down that road?

[762_XC]

Well awarding points for killing line CA's is certainly not the way to go.

The only thing I can think of is for RM's to come up with a short (maybe 3-4 players) "guest list" of n00b players who would be exempted from PvP losses.

This could allow us to use a build-point OOB without necessarily restricting n00bs from flying what they want.

[Hexx]

As part of an ongoing debate it's been mentioned to me that my serve idea adds nothing to the game
and penalizes new or less skilled players.

Damn good question Hexx.  I tend to believe that new or less skilled players shouldn't be encouraged to fly a DN for the reasons you've stated.  However, given that you are one of the D2's long term players here and certainly not new to the game, it still means you won't be able to fly a BB, DN, or BCH.  Are you sure you want to go down that road?

LOL a beautiful way of lumping me in the "less skilled" category eh Green ?
You can come out and say it, I don't mind..  
And I'm a bad person to ask, I really don't care if I fly the heavy metal or not, I actually generally prefer not.
I'm almost convinced against Western opponents the DWLP is a betetr PVP ship than a BCH.

And while I admit, I'd like to do some 1V1's with the LDNH, the D2 cap ships have largely evolved into fleet battles.
I'm a terrible wing as I'm one of those people who expects theri wing to know exactly what I want them to do without having
to bother telling htem, so I'm more than willing to pass on the cap ships to players who are better at winging together.

[KBF-Crim]

IMHO...someone (a new player) who simply joins up out of the blue should simply be exempt from ALL facets of the DV ruleset....meaning anyone they may kill doesnt count, and if anyone kills them it doesnt count...

At least until such time as they understand the rules....

On most servers...it's not like anyone can just pop on and buy a capitol ship anyways...

[Hexx]

Well awarding points for killing line CA's is certainly not the way to go.

The only thing I can think of is for RM's to come up with a short (maybe 3-4 players) "guest list" of n00b players who would be exempted from PvP losses.

This could allow us to use a build-point OOB without necessarily restricting n00bs from flying what they want.

But it can still lead to issues
A new player in a CCH is hardly a target worth stalking , unless you're desperate for a kill
a new player in a DN/BCH tends to get jumped asap.

And can lead to other problems, while a new player in a Lyran BCH probably isn't going to cause any serious
hex flipping issues, give the new player a Gorn BCS and he's going to be able to flip hexes fast enough that he becomes a target.

[FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC]

I t will be difficult to draw a line where the noob ends and the vet starts.
We dont know  who is really "new".

[FPF-DieHard]

I t will be difficult to draw a line where the noob ends and the vet starts.

5'8 . . .

[Kzinbane]

It's not just Noobies...
I decided not to play SG5 as I got a late start, and noticed how serious everyone seemed to be getting about being sure not to get destroyed flying certain ships.  In AOTK2 a couple times I got drafted and my allied  players were annoyed - they wanted to play with THEIR buddies.  I was even asked to leave certain hexes so I couldn't be drafted "accidently"!  That had NEVER happened to me in the years I had played previously.
It's almost like the game is becomming an "old boys/girls" club where noobies (and returning oldies) are not made to feel particularly welcome.
You can kind of get a feel of how this game is treated too seriously just by seeing how fun servers don't get players.  Indeed unless you are one of the few accepted members - you can start a server and no one plays.  It has to be Dizzy, or Hexx or J'inn or something otherwise the server - even if it may be pretty good - is a ghost town.

Ok, Rant off...

TO me the bounty system for  players is more what people enjoy as opposed to killing particular ships.  It is the pilot of the ship that really makes it dangerous for the most part.  A DN with a noob isn't going to be that big of a threat as compared to that same DN flown by a "master"!  If a Noobie starts to get enough kills to matter then they get re-listed as "bounty" material - and become worth points.  At some point the  persons point value is mulitpiied by the ship to = a bounty award.  A noobie in a BB may be 1 point.  One of the old masters in a BB may be worth 10! (or whatever).  That same master in a CA may be worth some points where the Noobie wouldn't be worth any.

So my take:  1.  Keep track of kills of ships larger than some particular class size and more importantly who's killing them.
2.  Once someone has shown themselves to be dangerous bountie them!  Now they're worth points based on what they're flying.
this way once a noob gets good enough to start racking up kills they automatically become prey based on how good they are.  Known 'old hats' of the game that are known to be good already can automatically be put on the bounty list right from the start.

Kzinbane

[KBF-Crim]

I got drafted and my allied  players were annoyed - they wanted to play with THEIR buddies.  I was even asked to leave certain hexes so I couldn't be drafted "accidently"!  That had NEVER happened to me in the years I had played previously.

That attitude is not universal.

[Hexx]

It's not just Noobies...
I.  Indeed unless you are one of the few accepted members - you can start a server and no one plays.  It has to be Dizzy, or Hexx or J'inn or something
Kzinbane

  
 Yes I'm having so much sucess trying to translate my genius into servers

I don;t know who would actually ask someone to leave a hex, unless possibly it was a agreed upon fight, and even that's pretty rude
I'm all for equal opportunity myself, I'll fight & run from anyone.

[762_XC]

Were you on voice comms Kzinbane? If not I can understand them asking you that - if so, then whoever did needs a beating.

[Dfly]

I too like the ideas of bounties on particular pilot's heads.  I beleive every kill on that bounty head should be worth something, and the idea of it  being multiplied by the ship size is good.

let's say Dizzy is worth 2 points. 

Frig=X1
Light=X2
heavy=X3
bch=X4
DN=X5
BB=X8?

Dizzy in his BCH would be 8 points for his kill.  For a runoff, get 1/2 that, rounded up.  so you run him off in a frig, that is 2X1, X1/2=1

It matters not what size you fly, only what size the bounty is using.  Perhaps a slight flaw to that would be the Bounty man would want the biggest ship, but wait.  Let's say that any pilot with a bounty cannot fly a BB.  that would make things very interesting.

Perhaps limit the total pilots with bounties on each side to say 6 pilots each?  Should normally be at least one online at nearly any time.  Pilots with bounties can end up being changed as server runs if a Bounty Hunter gets a few kills as his head price will go up.

Ideas? IMO I would like to see a server tried with such a system, or similar.

[Dizzy]

no VP's were awarded for ship losses on SGO..

Dunno what all the stink was about. The only one that got yelled out on our side was Shin for wasting a BB, hehe. And he deserved it. Shin's not a newb, but you'll never see a newb on their own taking out a BB into a knife fight and thinking they will 'learn to play the game' that way, hehe. It's not something newbs do.

They ARE fretful of losing ships. And RM's need to encourage them to do so. F9thKirk lost quite a few ships but not ONCE did anyone bitch about it. We kept telling him and others that getting wasted (cept shin) was the best way to learn. You cant learn if you keep disengaging w/o a fight. You have to push it... get killed and in doing so figuring out your limits. But it doesnt help with a server designed to punish players for getting killed. Kirk is the kind of player I want back on my team the next server. He contributed every day, flipped hexes, always asked to be included in Ops and was just a morale boost to have on the team. The fact he was willing to engage and lose ships yet keep trying undaunted shows me he is interested in becoming a pvp player. Thats an awesome attitude.

So, despite the way I setup the Victory Points to factor in PvP and the fact that no one side on any round earned VP's for pvp engagements, peeps are still bitching. I guess I didnt explain them well enough despite the fact they worked as intended... But apparently not well enough to bust the stigma newbs have of losing a ship and feeling they are hurting the team...

Following this thought process, I'll be adding another idea for SGO6, I think it's time to directly address a newbs point of view and get them into the game with 'Newb Points'. Rather than using the rules set I had which pretty much made sure no one scored any VP's off PvP play, I think this direct newb PvP approach may pan out better for them...

Newb Points would be given out by RM's to players at the start of the game. These newbs would use them in one of two ways. If in a PvP they die, they use one of their few Newb Points and their death isnt counted. If they score a kill, then they need to give up a newb point for it to count. This way, a newb doesnt have to fret over hurting the team if they die and  helps them contribute better. Damn I'm good... I was a newb once too ya know. Looking back this seems to be a good idea. I'll let Tracey G come up with a politically correct terminology for it tho. hehe

Lets delve further a bit on a seperate topic. Some are complaining there needs to be more of a penalty for ace players. Well, I penalized the top two players from each team by placing a bounty on their heads. That would make them work harder to make up for what they lost, and thus balance it out their high kill totals. Was the bounty not high enough? Perhaps it should be based on the players kills percentage?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

It's not just Noobies...
I decided not to play SG5 as I got a late start, and noticed how serious everyone seemed to be getting about being sure not to get destroyed flying certain ships.  In AOTK2 a couple times I got drafted and my allied  players were annoyed - they wanted to play with THEIR buddies.  I was even asked to leave certain hexes so I couldn't be drafted "accidently"!  That had NEVER happened to me in the years I had played previously.
It's almost like the game is becomming an "old boys/girls" club where noobies (and returning oldies) are not made to feel particularly welcome.
You can kind of get a feel of how this game is treated too seriously just by seeing how fun servers don't get players.  Indeed unless you are one of the few accepted members - you can start a server and no one plays.  It has to be Dizzy, or Hexx or J'inn or something otherwise the server - even if it may be pretty good - is a ghost town.

Well I guess I owe you an apology for one of those Kzinbane.

The situation was not exactly typical however,

We were trying to drive Duck's Rom DNL, what ever its called off the planet we had taken from the coalition, so that we could boost back the DV on it.  We had organized a strike force of 3 pilots to do so each with a specific function, A fast Lyran cruiser to anchor and keep up the pressure, a Mirak DWD to restrict his movement somewhat with medium speed drones and possibly anchor, and a mirak carrier (battletug variety since the shipyards were unkind at theat moment)  to provide the "Boom".  We knew Duck to be very skilled with that boat and didn't want to take any chances.

We had asked everyone on voice coms to stay clear, and I had even typed it on mirak chat, but the message wasn't recieved.  So instead of the fast Lyran we drafted Kzinbane in an mirak mediun command cruiser.  To make matters worse, and my mood as well,  the carrier pilot who had just bought his ship for the purpose of catching duck forgot to update from stock fighter loadouts.

I was a bit frustrated that mission since we couldn't coordinate with Kzinbane via voice coms and missed a couple of opportunites due to being out of synch.  Without the Lyran fast cruiser I had the only ship with the speed to catch and tractor duck, but my wingmen weren't able to arrive on the scene when I managed it breifly before being gutted.

My frustration wasn't due to any desire to fly with a particular pilot Kzinbane, my frustration was not being able to fly with a particular ship combination that we had tried to set up for that particular task, and tried to communicate to our side beforehand.  About 5 minutes after the battle I got over it and decided "it just wasn't meant to be this time" we will just have to try again later.  But I admit at the time I wasn't very pleased with that situation. 

I do apologize if you took it to mean you were not welcome to fly with me, that was not the impression I meant to give.  I had fun running missions with you as my wing after that so I had no idea you were upset about that affair.

I do recommend that pilots do get on voice coms, even if it is listen only, when at all possible to avoid this type of miscommunication. Racial chat is also helpful but to a much lesser degree.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

As far as new players,

Like Crim said, Just simply don't count their kills and don't count it when they make a kill.  No counted kills= no embarassing posts.

However, since they might be in a big ship and be chasing off people form hexes, I think their disengagement penalties might be doubled when they are flying a ship normally worth VCs.   

[Sochin]

As a fairly new player, SGO5 was my 4th campaign, I think I might be a little better placed to help you on this one. My campaigns have been General War 4 & 5 and Slave Girls 4 & 5. New Players basically, in my opinion and looking at my fleets personnel as reference, are made up of two groups of players. The first group is the returning rusty player who gets into the swing of things quickly once handed a few harsh lessons. The second is the SFC3 player trying to get into OP. When Dizzy asked about SFC3 its is very apparent that OP has a massive learning curve compaired to SFC3, where as 3 is tactical OP is very technical and as with the chat with Dizzy in the long run OP can be very rewarding for most of the players and this is where the problem is. Its just taking me till know to learn the basics of OP for me to feel at least semi confident.

With the General War servers and a lesser extent SGO4 the ship lists are in my opinion to restrictive, if its going to take a couple of campaigns to learn the trade so to speak then giving the new player something with a little more toys on the extras list might be a good idea. This in my opinion will give at least some pleasure and help to retain some of the newer players. Also some of the Karnak missions are drawing target vessels out of BPV which scares the Jesus out of us new pilots, given time and experience this is overcome but it does take time. In my opinion these scripts need looking into. It seems that the rules are indeed written by lawyers, simplification of the rules might be in order.

The next point is a little more contentious. It has come to my attention through other new pilots that certain veteran players attitude to PVP doesnt help. I have had a number of my pilots who wont pick up OP again because of the attitude leveled at them for not staying in combat or for leaving a target area when hounded for combat. Taking into account the learning curve for this game PVP for the new player isnt something taken lightly. Remember once you veterans where "noobs". I would also council for the veterans to be proactive when new players come online, I dont think its a good idea for new pilots to be running around asking who wants a wingman. Jump on the pilot and get him on your wing and teach him / her a little. With that in mind though SGO5 has had a more relaxed feel about it, personally I have found it one of the best campaigns I have participated in a while.

Recommendations

1. I would reccomend that players be categorised by the veterans, I would suggest Novice - Intermediate - Experienced - Veteran. This in turn gives the RM's something to go off when allocating or receiving ship requests. This will give a good indication as to what the pilot is capable of flying, not everyone is a Heavy Metal pilot.

2. The setting up of a training server for those that wish to get their teeth into DV play, with veteran assistance to teach them.

3. Think a bit more about the ship lists, give a little to all the skill levels.

4. Take the new pilots under your wing, they may turn out to be fairly decent given the chance.

[KBF-Kapact]

I joined the Black Fleet a long time ago, and for the longest time, I couldn't win a single engagement. But, yeah, they stuck with me, and there was never any talk about how bad I was doing  or how little time I could spend in PvP because of my slow dialup. Now I'm better.... still lots of practice needed, but I can hold my own. Nobody ever made any issue of what kind of ship I got into (except when I picked one I wasn't supposed to have), and nobody ever hesitated to fly with me. That's why I'm so loyal to KBF, and why I still say this is the best online community. I've found that veterans pretty much take care of Newbies. It does kinda seem like the rules are written by lawyers though....

[Dizzy]

It does kinda seem like the rules are written by lawyers though....

Well, its up to the RM's to explain it in english. They have been round long enough to know that not spelling things out exactly leads to player issues and Admin troubles. Fortunately this server, iirc, not a single player issue came up before me from the RM's for me to wrestle with. That was cool... It was a smooth server no matter what anyone says. But I do agree with Kapact, the rules the server admin writes needs to be rewritten in short by the RM's for the players who cant read more than a paragraph.

[Soreyes]

When I was on and not running for my life  I had a chance to hook up with a few of the new people on some missions. It was allways fun. Now far be it that I should try to teach someone tactics  but it was fun trying to show them little tricks of the game. Like how to tell if that planet you are about to assalt, is armed or not. Not to fret getting EEK missons.... I mean come on now you just can't pull a I-CAZV in your Z-DF all the time. And when to RUN!!!!!  Case in point. Kirk and myself jumping into a hex with Z-DFs, and finding Frey and Tool  in there already flying a I-CV and a H-DN of some sort. I think my suggestion was "Throw drones over our shoulders and RUN!!!!)

[Father Ted]

As a fairly new player, SGO5 was my 4th campaign, I think I might be a little better placed to help you on this one. My campaigns have been General War 4 & 5 and Slave Girls 4 & 5. New Players basically, in my opinion and looking at my fleets personnel as reference, are made up of two groups of players. The first group is the returning rusty player who gets into the swing of things quickly once handed a few harsh lessons. The second is the SFC3 player trying to get into OP. When Dizzy asked about SFC3 its is very apparent that OP has a massive learning curve compaired to SFC3, where as 3 is tactical OP is very technical and as with the chat with Dizzy in the long run OP can be very rewarding for most of the players and this is where the problem is. Its just taking me till know to learn the basics of OP for me to feel at least semi confident.

With the General War servers and a lesser extent SGO4 the ship lists are in my opinion to restrictive, if its going to take a couple of campaigns to learn the trade so to speak then giving the new player something with a little more toys on the extras list might be a good idea. This in my opinion will give at least some pleasure and help to retain some of the newer players. Also some of the Karnak missions are drawing target vessels out of BPV which scares the Jesus out of us new pilots, given time and experience this is overcome but it does take time. In my opinion these scripts need looking into. It seems that the rules are indeed written by lawyers, simplification of the rules might be in order.

The next point is a little more contentious. It has come to my attention through other new pilots that certain veteran players attitude to PVP doesnt help. I have had a number of my pilots who wont pick up OP again because of the attitude leveled at them for not staying in combat or for leaving a target area when hounded for combat. Taking into account the learning curve for this game PVP for the new player isnt something taken lightly. Remember once you veterans where "noobs". I would also council for the veterans to be proactive when new players come online, I dont think its a good idea for new pilots to be running around asking who wants a wingman. Jump on the pilot and get him on your wing and teach him / her a little. With that in mind though SGO5 has had a more relaxed feel about it, personally I have found it one of the best campaigns I have participated in a while.

Recommendations

1. I would reccomend that players be categorised by the veterans, I would suggest Novice - Intermediate - Experienced - Veteran. This in turn gives the RM's something to go off when allocating or receiving ship requests. This will give a good indication as to what the pilot is capable of flying, not everyone is a Heavy Metal pilot.

2. The setting up of a training server for those that wish to get their teeth into DV play, with veteran assistance to teach them.

3. Think a bit more about the ship lists, give a little to all the skill levels.

4. Take the new pilots under your wing, they may turn out to be fairly decent given the chance.

I remember trying to train D3 players on the original AOTK. They didn't know about power curve, taking time to charge the photons, and then throw in the original Evil Dave missions! That was not fun. But one particular mission was truly galling. JB and I were flying against AI with a newbie(who I'd flown with before, and fussed at about what follows), all of us in CLC's. JB and I stayed back to overload the photons, but this guy rushes out of the gate at 31, despite both of us practically screaming at him on chat to stop and load weapons. He proceeded to get gutted and turned into dust by three Rommies which it took JB and me about three minutes to waste. I don't mind training newbies, but for God's sake, get TS and listen! 

PS: That's not directed at you or Kirk, both of whom played magnificently, and it's nice to see the 9th coming back to its roots. Now, just get Nanner, Sparty, Albino and Ol' Buzz to get on a server!

[SkyFlyer]

But it took awhile before I became th PVP demon I am today...

Oh yess Hexx... You instill... HAHAH oh man...

fear.... LOL WOW THIS IS KILLER... in all of... omgosh haha.. u... lol wow... us. ROFL.

[el-Karnak]

New players should be able to PP farm into a regular CA ships within an hour.  I always like ISC because once you get a Frog CA ship then you have a really good ship to PvP with.

[Kzinbane]

Chuut, I wasn't trying to make any specific accusation(s).  I "know" you guys and understand why most people do what they're doing.  My point is that noob's don't - and could easily get put off and leave by unintentional slights.
Just the idea that "thou shalt have voice coms" gets to me a bit.  I had them at one time, found it mostly useless and also that it putzed with my stability.  I shouldn't have to have voice coms to be welcome and have fun though.

The trick is to have the "old hats" welcoming to new players as they log on.  Use good ol' chat & nicely say hi and ask nicely that they work in such and such sectors if they want P vs P or flip hexes in certain areas if they're PP farming (or have unstable connections).

My observation after a year or more off is that if anything people are taking servers even MORE seriously than they used to!  No one plays "fun" servers because they are not "serious".  Whatever that means.  Players get into their hunting and don't want interference from others in their plans.  Players insist that if you're not on the forum(s) you really shouldn't be playing yet.

Please, no one needs to get defensive - I am not intending to fire shots at anyone!  What I want is to have more players come along and have fun, feel welcome and join in this crazy bunch.  Eve stole a lot of players and sooner or later another game will wander along and derail more.  We cannot afford to be anything but welcoming and just grit our teeth if a noob looses a Battleship or whatever - because it really IS a game designed to have fun with, after all.

Lest you think  it's all negative - no.  AOTKII was fun.  SG looks like it was - though it got to serious looking for me to feel like joining in after being delayed in starting.  Some of the new server ideas are good (even Hexx's) and would be fun to try out.
WE just need to be sure we have an open door policy and a bounty or point system that isn't so restrictive or taken so serously that newbies (or old farts for that matter) start to feel like there are better and more fun things to do.

Kzinbane

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

I, too, took time out on SG5 to help some newer players, specifically teaching them how to fly Lyran. I felt this was more important welcoming newer players than going after VCs, and in one instance, doing so cost me a ship. Nor do all of our players have english as a first language. I spent quite a bit of time with Xtrahsis (spelling?) who is German and he did very well coping with my Australian accent, but well worth the effort.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Chuut, I wasn't trying to make any specific accusation(s).  I "know" you guys and understand why most people do what they're doing.  My point is that noob's don't - and could easily get put off and leave by unintentional slights.
Just the idea that "thou shalt have voice coms" gets to me a bit.  I had them at one time, found it mostly useless and also that it putzed with my stability.  I shouldn't have to have voice coms to be welcome and have fun though.

The trick is to have the "old hats" welcoming to new players as they log on.  Use good ol' chat & nicely say hi and ask nicely that they work in such and such sectors if they want P vs P or flip hexes in certain areas if they're PP farming (or have unstable connections).

My observation after a year or more off is that if anything people are taking servers even MORE seriously than they used to!  No one plays "fun" servers because they are not "serious".  Whatever that means.  Players get into their hunting and don't want interference from others in their plans.  Players insist that if you're not on the forum(s) you really shouldn't be playing yet.

Please, no one needs to get defensive - I am not intending to fire shots at anyone!  What I want is to have more players come along and have fun, feel welcome and join in this crazy bunch.  Eve stole a lot of players and sooner or later another game will wander along and derail more.  We cannot afford to be anything but welcoming and just grit our teeth if a noob looses a Battleship or whatever - because it really IS a game designed to have fun with, after all.

Lest you think  it's all negative - no.  AOTKII was fun.  SG looks like it was - though it got to serious looking for me to feel like joining in after being delayed in starting.  Some of the new server ideas are good (even Hexx's) and would be fun to try out.
WE just need to be sure we have an open door policy and a bounty or point system that isn't so restrictive or taken so serously that newbies (or old farts for that matter) start to feel like there are better and more fun things to do.

Kzinbane

Good points Kzinbane, definately a product of the increase in server restrictions from the old days.  With disengagement rules and PvP VCs there is definately more emphasis on winning each battle.  It has pros and cons, but I'd place myself in the group favoring the older style servers that were a tad less serious even though I can usually find some fun in most servers except those with excessive OOB or other restrictions and I just sit those out and play other games.

[KBF-Crim]

As far as new players,

Like Crim said, Just simply don't count their kills and don't count it when they make a kill.  No counted kills= no embarassing posts.

However, since they might be in a big ship and be chasing off people form hexes, I think their disengagement penalties might be doubled when they are flying a ship normally worth VCs.   

Ohhhhh...get chased off by a (widely known noob) and get REALLY embarassed....

I LOVE IT!

[KBF-Crim]

I, too, took time out on SG5 to help some newer players, specifically teaching them how to fly Lyran. I felt this was more important welcoming newer players than going after VCs, and in one instance, doing so cost me a ship. Nor do all of our players have english as a first language. I spent quite a bit of time with Xtrahsis (spelling?) who is German and he did very well coping with my Australian accent, but well worth the effort.

I would pay good money to hear you on voice comms...A million years ago Heavenly-ICOP and Ausie dream (sisters to boot) used to frequent M-player...Both where excellent pilots....and both had that soft aussie accent that can melt the heart of any yank...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I would pay good money to hear you on voice comms...

Fly Federation and you won't have to pay a cent 

[OlBuzzard]

PS: That's not directed at you or Kirk, both of whom played magnificently, and it's nice to see the 9th coming back to its roots. Now, just get Nanner, Sparty, Albino and Ol' Buzz to get on a server!

....perhaps some day.  I'm trying to make arrangements for someone to take my private web site ( primarily used to remote host picts of WIP stuff for models, web art, etc ...  and will hopefully have DSL in a few weeks.

At the time I'm working on some models

We have 5 or 6  ships that are nearing completion  ( only a couple of which might be used in a OP mod ) They are as follows:

1.  Late TNG Fed Star Base
2.  USS Titan ( my personal design)
3.  USS Mako (late TNG Miranda concept)
4.  USS Alabama (TMP Fed BB )
5.  USS Iowa (late TMP/ preTNG cross Fed BB)
6.  X-29 fighter ( from the "Last Patrol" novel)

(USS Bass Master refit ...  TBA ..  )

some of these I'd actually like to get completed in the next 2 or 3 weeks.

I do plan on a return of some sorts ... but for now completing these will hopefull make a better contribution to the SFC community.  (unless you guys are really hard up for comic relief.

[KBF-Crim]

I joined the Black Fleet a long time ago, and for the longest time, I couldn't win a single engagement. But, yeah, they stuck with me, and there was never any talk about how bad I was doing  or how little time I could spend in PvP because of my slow dialup. Now I'm better.... still lots of practice needed, but I can hold my own. Nobody ever made any issue of what kind of ship I got into (except when I picked one I wasn't supposed to have), and nobody ever hesitated to fly with me. That's why I'm so loyal to KBF, and why I still say this is the best online community. I've found that veterans pretty much take care of Newbies. It does kinda seem like the rules are written by lawyers though....

Yeah?..well...we only keep you around to make the rest of us look like we dont totally suck...*snicker*

Just kidding Brother!

It is said..." you do not find the KBF...the KBF finds you"

In my case..I had flown klingon exclusively for ages...since before the TFD(task force delphinus) aka "the inner circle" left...

I flew many a server as a privateer as "Crimnick"...happy to have a wing...or content to fly solo...allways fighting for my empire...blow out or not...(and yes...some of those servers where dark times for the Klingon empire...almost as bad and the Lyrans had it)

I was floored when Doggy asked me if I would like to join...and honored beyond words to join such warriors...

We've had our share of charactors for sure...and I (as well as others) try our utmost to uphold the traditions that made the KBF both feared and respected...

Honor...sportsmanship...instruction....brotherhood...

We are all equals...bound by a love for the game and our empire...our leaders lead, because they are the ones best suited to do so...not out of status or ego..

Membership is a lifetime affair.....two days gone...or two years...all warriors are welcome to fight as much...or as little as they have time for...and every member is welcomed back to the empire like the brothers they are...

The primary pre-requesit for membership is:

You flew for your empire,

When no one asked it of you...

When you where out numbered 5 to 1, and still showed up...

When you had more ships blown out from under you than you could afford...but didnt log off...

When you put empire before fleet or independance...

and that you did those things when you thought no one was watching....without complaint nor boast...

I am as honored to be a member of the Black fleet today...as I was the first day....

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I joined the Black Fleet a long time ago, and for the longest time, I couldn't win a single engagement. But, yeah, they stuck with me, and there was never any talk about how bad I was doing  or how little time I could spend in PvP because of my slow dialup. Now I'm better.... still lots of practice needed, but I can hold my own. Nobody ever made any issue of what kind of ship I got into (except when I picked one I wasn't supposed to have), and nobody ever hesitated to fly with me. That's why I'm so loyal to KBF, and why I still say this is the best online community. I've found that veterans pretty much take care of Newbies. It does kinda seem like the rules are written by lawyers though....

Yeah?..well...we only keep you around to make the rest of us look like we dont totally suck...*snicker*

Just kidding Brother!

It is said..." you do not find the KBF...the KBF finds you"

In my case..I had flown klingon exclusively for ages...since before the TFD(task force delphinus) aka "the inner circle" left...

I flew many a server as a privateer as "Crimnick"...happy to have a wing...or content to fly solo...allways fighting for my empire...blow out or not...(and yes...some of those servers where dark times for the Klingon empire...almost as bad and the Lyrans had it)

I was floored when Doggy asked me if I would like to join...and honored beyond words to join such warriors...

We've had our share of charactors for sure...and I (as well as others) try our utmost to uphold the traditions that made the KBF both feared and respected...

Honor...sportsmanship...instruction....brotherhood...

We are all equals...bound by a love for the game and our empire...our leaders lead, because they are the ones best suited to do so...not out of status or ego..

Membership is a lifetime affair.....two days gone...or two years...all warriors are welcome to fight as much...or as little as they have time for...and every member is welcomed back to the empire like the brothers they are...

The primary pre-requesit for membership is:

You flew for your empire,

When no one asked it of you...

When you where out numbered 5 to 1, and still showed up...

When you had more ships blown out from under you than you could afford...but didnt log off...

When you put empire before fleet or independance...

and that you did those things when you thought no one was watching....without complaint nor boast...

I am as honored to be a member of the Black fleet today...as I was the first day....

Damn Crimmy that was nice!

We KATS only required a simple bribe of nice singlemalt scotch to get in 

Seriously though, those are damn good qualities that you mention <S> to the KBF 

[KBF-Crim]

Well..they let me in and shot that all to hell...*snicker*

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Well..they let me in and shot that all to hell...*snicker*

las long as you brought them bloodwine, I'm sure it was all good 

[Soreyes]

We KATS only required a simple bribe of nice singlemalt scotch to get in  

Damn Chuut is that all it takes to get in?   Heck J'inn told me I had to pay a "SMALL" gratuity to him to join

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

We KATS only required a simple bribe of nice singlemalt scotch to get in 

Damn Chuut is that all it takes to get in?   Heck J'inn told me I had to pay a "SMALL" gratuity to him to join

Well, I said KATs not KOTHs, the fact that J'inn is a KAT and had no authority over KOTH membership should have tipped you off, if it didn't in the word of PT Barnum "A sucker is born everyday".   

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Oh, BTW Soreyes you membership fees are in arears, I'm the collection officer for the month so just send me the check, I'll even waive the late fees since your a friend 

[Soreyes]

We KATS only required a simple bribe of nice singlemalt scotch to get in 

Damn Chuut is that all it takes to get in?   Heck J'inn told me I had to pay a "SMALL" gratuity to him to join

Well, I said KATs not KOTHs, the fact that J'inn is a KAT and had no authority over KOTH membership should have tipped you off, if it didn't in the word of PT Barnum "A sucker is born everyday".   

Hey I was a Newb....... I thought that all kATS were the same.    Boy did I learn the Hard Way that ain't so

[KBF-Kapact]

It does kinda seem like the rules are written by lawyers though....

Well, its up to the RM's to explain it in english. They have been round long enough to know that not spelling things out exactly leads to player issues and Admin troubles. Fortunately this server, iirc, not a single player issue came up before me from the RM's for me to wrestle with. That was cool... It was a smooth server no matter what anyone says. But I do agree with Kapact, the rules the server admin writes needs to be rewritten in short by the RM's for the players who cant read more than a paragraph.

That's very considerate, thinking about those more intellectually challenged than yourself. I'm actually a pretty bright person....I've been known to read six or seven paragraphs without having to sound out a single word.  I was just trying to point out that the average reader will see too many paragraphs and be put off from reading.

[Dizzy]

 I was just trying to point out that the average reader will see too many paragraphs and be put off from reading.

Like I said, Most of the rules are from an RM/admin perspective. There needs to be a player's concise handbook of rules and regulations. I aint doing it. Thats the job of the RM.

Know what? I never read the instruction manuals when I bring a shiny new tool home from Sears. Sears knows that, but they put it in there for when u screw up or hurt urself, ots ur own fault for not reading it. Why should I expect a player to read everything I write? I dont. In fact, I find players dont get much further than the pretty Orion Slave Girl pic and the instructions on how to D/L the installer. The rest gets explained on TS... 

[KBF-Kapact]

 I was just trying to point out that the average reader will see too many paragraphs and be put off from reading.

Like I said, Most of the rules are from an RM/admin perspective. There needs to be a player's concise handbook of rules and regulations. I aint doing it. Thats the job of the RM.

Know what? I never read the instruction manuals when I bring a shiny new tool home from Sears. Sears knows that, but they put it in there for when u screw up or hurt urself, ots ur own fault for not reading it. Why should I expect a player to read everything I write? I dont. In fact, I find players dont get much further than the pretty Orion Slave Girl pic and the instructions on how to D/L the installer. The rest gets explained on TS... 

That's okay. Just a difference between you and me.... I'm a writer by trade.... I don't write anything without the expectation (or hope anyway) of it being read. But I'm not trying to write the rules for a server. Just a novel, and a few columns. Hey, maybe if there was a standard set of rules always posted, and the variations could be released for the server. That way people could educate themselves as to general rules anytime they want, and when a new server comes up we can see what is different this time around.

[KBF MalaK]

no VP's were awarded for ship losses on SGO..

Dunno what all the stink was about. The only one that got yelled out on our side was Shin for wasting a BB, hehe. And he deserved it. Shin's not a newb, but you'll never see a newb on their own taking out a BB into a knife fight and thinking they will 'learn to play the game' that way, hehe. It's not something newbs do.

They ARE fretful of losing ships. And RM's need to encourage them to do so. F9thKirk lost quite a few ships but not ONCE did anyone bitch about it. We kept telling him and others that getting wasted (cept shin) was the best way to learn. You cant learn if you keep disengaging w/o a fight. You have to push it... get killed and in doing so figuring out your limits. But it doesnt help with a server designed to punish players for getting killed. Kirk is the kind of player I want back on my team the next server. He contributed every day, flipped hexes, always asked to be included in Ops and was just a morale boost to have on the team. The fact he was willing to engage and lose ships yet keep trying undaunted shows me he is interested in becoming a pvp player. Thats an awesome attitude.

So, despite the way I setup the Victory Points to factor in PvP and the fact that no one side on any round earned VP's for pvp engagements, peeps are still bitching. I guess I didnt explain them well enough despite the fact they worked as intended... But apparently not well enough to bust the stigma newbs have of losing a ship and feeling they are hurting the team...

Following this thought process, I'll be adding another idea for SGO6, I think it's time to directly address a newbs point of view and get them into the game with 'Newb Points'. Rather than using the rules set I had which pretty much made sure no one scored any VP's off PvP play, I think this direct newb PvP approach may pan out better for them...

Newb Points would be given out by RM's to players at the start of the game. These newbs would use them in one of two ways. If in a PvP they die, they use one of their few Newb Points and their death isnt counted. If they score a kill, then they need to give up a newb point for it to count. This way, a newb doesnt have to fret over hurting the team if they die and  helps them contribute better. Damn I'm good... I was a newb once too ya know. Looking back this seems to be a good idea. I'll let Tracey G come up with a politically correct terminology for it tho. hehe

Lets delve further a bit on a seperate topic. Some are complaining there needs to be more of a penalty for ace players. Well, I penalized the top two players from each team by placing a bounty on their heads. That would make them work harder to make up for what they lost, and thus balance it out their high kill totals. Was the bounty not high enough? Perhaps it should be based on the players kills percentage?

Sorry to quote that monster message, but there's a flaw in this plan as once a newb starts losing ships eventually they can't afford to arm the basic ship so eventually they fall into a never ending cycle of losing ships. You'd have to award prestige points to let the noob buy a decent ship once they run outta prestige of their own.

PvP points are nice but the noobs need an edge. Maybe only let the noobs have the X ships on a server, but someone'll have to decide which ones of us are the noobs.

[762_XC]

Giving n00bs X-ships won't be doing them any favors. You certainly won't learn how to fly anything else that way.

Problem is people only want to fly heavy cheese on GSA. We need to organize some training.

DH!!!!!

[KBF-Crim]

Well...a new player is pretty obvious to most peeps....

And notification can be as simple as posting it in open chat...

I still say that a truely new player should be exempt from the entire process....their actions neither benifit nor punish the empire they logged in under...if you choose to fly against a new player and lose your ship...it counts for naught....if you choose to fight a new player and beat him...it counts for naught...

No matter how serious or not the empires and fleets are playing a current DV campaign...we dont often take the time to both welcome and instruct new players...even if they are flying for the other team...

The senario I propose make the most sence....because there is no incentive for someone to "fake" being a new player...not that anyone would do such a thing...

[KBF MalaK]

well, if a couple of noobs team up and happen to catch hexx or dizzy alone and win they can't keep the points because they're noobs
-or-
they same situation, but the noobs have xships (or droners) they win and they keep the points. imagine how well they'll feel and want to come back and play,  and since only the noobs can pilot the xships, the sides will be out looking for noobs to fly them, and they'll be training them so they don't lose them.

guess what I'd choose.
  just my 2 cents

[FPF-DieHard]

Problem is people only want to fly heavy cheese on GSA. We need to organize some training.

DH!!!!!

So we can have 7 vets show up to train Duck's Kid?

[Soreyes]

Problem is people only want to fly heavy cheese on GSA. We need to organize some training.

Well I can help by training the newer players in the fine art of " Hitting the Enemy where there not"  or "The joys of deep striking"

[KBF-Kurok]

actualy i think putting the nooobs in an x ship is hurting them. The things they realy need to learn are using your resourses power and such. By putting them in a ship that dosent have near the shortcommings in my opinion is doing them wrong.
Where they realy need to work is in the smaller ships where it is more critical that you manage these things.Teaching them things like phaser slider bars setting esg's and such proper range to fire your weapons effects of ecm and eccm and such.
just my 2 cents
Kurok

[FPF-DieHard]

People need to learn ALL eras.   The differences and the Evolution of Tactics are what make this game wonderful.

[KBF MalaK]

believe me, I'd rather have the training but I'm sure not going to insult nor inconvience one of the 'lifers' by asking them to train me. But for the record I used to love flying hvy cruisers till I got droned to death by a 'lifer' flying a FF last campaign. NEVER AGAIN, I only fly cheese now and avoid PvP at all costs.

[Mog]

Malak, I'm assuming you fly Klingon going from your pic. Once the D5s are out, fly them. Far better arcs and power curve than the D7s.

Drone defence: fly a bit faster than the drones (obviously this excludes fast ones - see later), and manuever so that the droner doesn't cross your T. You want to be flying parallel to the droner, so that you can use your dissies and ph1s to keep hitting him at range 8.99 or less, constantly. Turn off your phaser point defence; don't need it if you're going faster (plus youhave AMD). Continue to do this till you either run him out of drones (at which point he'll run to the border), or you do enough internals so that he can't keep speed up to be able to escape.

A tip for using dissies in a D5 hull. Turn one pair off and overload the other pair - more accuracy for the same damage and power usage as for 4 standards. Also, once the D5L is out, get in that. It's a great droner killer.

For fast drones, make sure you're in a ship that can do speed 31. Fast drones are speed 32, and have 3 turns duration. As long as you stay outside of range 3, they can't hit you. The rest of the above tactics are valid.

[Hexx]

believe me, I'd rather have the training but I'm sure not going to insult nor inconvience one of the 'lifers' by asking them to train me. But for the record I used to love flying hvy cruisers till I got droned to death by a 'lifer' flying a FF last campaign. NEVER AGAIN, I only fly cheese now and avoid PvP at all costs.

When DH is in the mood he runs some great training stuff, he'll announce it here
Problem is (as mentioned) it's usually a bunch of vets and only one (if that) new player that
shows.


But take the PVP's watch what the other guy does and try and emulate it for attacks, or try different things
to defend against it. Yes you'll probably lose at first, but one of fights you'll suddenly decide to do something that works, and works well..

[Riskyllama]

Sorry to quote that monster message, but there's a flaw in this plan as once a newb starts losing ships eventually they can't afford to arm the basic ship so eventually they fall into a never ending cycle of losing ships. You'd have to award prestige points to let the noob buy a decent ship once they run outta prestige of their own.

PvP points are nice but the noobs need an edge. Maybe only let the noobs have the X ships on a server, but someone'll have to decide which ones of us are the noobs.

     Training doesnt have to be IP games or Gamespy. If a rookie (sounds much nicer than noob, noob is something else in my book) takes an expensive ship, make sure a vet is winging him. Break up your fleeting partner preferences. Cover that rookie, teach him tricks against the AI so once you hit livefire...he's ready. The only reason I survive half of my engagements is tricks i learned flying against AI with a vet showing me how to do it right if it were human. Braxton, Chuut, Dib and Krueg and the rest of the KBF, DFly, DH, Direwolf, Dizzy, Hexx, Frey, Freedom, the FSD guys, Saxon, Soreyes, Tobin(that aid during the Gamespy match was invaluable), 762, Duck and the KHH crew, and several notable others(nothing personal if I didnt list you, but space and my bad memory permitting) all taught me tricks that I've used.
     Alot of the time it was just hex flipping that I picked this stuff up. These pilots were all nice enough to break off from their buddies or team up in larger groups to teach and protect me over just the last few months and servers. All of these pilots are spread out across the different races and some across different time zones. If there are new pilots, I would bet that one of these mentioned and many others would be quick to lend a hand to make sure any rookie keeps his ship.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I usually try to hook newer or inexperienced pilots with vets just for that purpose.
IP games are good for training in many aspects, but with the mission variety on most server warrants some training there as well.
When I first came to the D2 it was a far cry from the GSA matches I was used to.
Ask any player who has done the same about the differences. 
How many have been captured not realizing that when you use all your Boarding Parties you're leaving yourself wide open...
But, I do definity agree learning Energy management, ideal weapons ranges, etc. are critical to any player. Many players don't ven know how to set power priority, how much ECM affects weapons hitting etc.
And many of those neat Little tricks you can get just by reading the Manuel that comes with the game...

[KBF-Crim]

I usually try to hook newer or inexperienced pilots with vets just for that purpose.
IP games are good for training in many aspects, but with the mission variety on most server warrants some training there as well.
When I first came to the D2 it was a far cry from the GSA matches I was used to.
Ask any player who has done the same about the differences. 
How many have been captured not realizing that when you use all your Boarding Parties you're leaving yourself wide open...
But, I do definity agree learning Energy management, ideal weapons ranges, etc. are critical to any player. Many players don't ven know how to set power priority, how much ECM affects weapons hitting etc.
And many of those neat Little tricks you can get just by reading the Manuel that comes with the game...

Bah...overly complicated...

A)...fly like a berzerker....

B)... hammer the "Z" key...

 

[Hexx]

We should have some "volunteers" for each race write up some basic piloting guides, nothing fancy, but
some basic stuff
Get rid of some of the stereotypes-
For example all the "early" Lyran guides go on about "managing power" and how you have to keep
changing everything if you want to fly- it's crap

Yes those pilots (I assume anyway) who are constantly moving the sliders around will tend to do better
But I can count the number of times I've done anything but set
Move-1
ECM-2
Weapons-3
or moved the capacitor bar on one hand
and all joking aside I've still won more than I've lost flying Lyran

teach them the basics, that (for example)
- if you're trying to outrun spd 32 drones, you better turn off the
4OL Disrupters you're holding.
-That you'll rarely hit against a 2ECM shift, that some races can't go toe to toe with other races
(I'm still working on this one)
-That spd 24 drones can be ignored 90% of the time
-That you will fail that 99.9% HET you need to pass to survive
-That you will pass that 1% HET that doesn't mean anything

[el-Karnak]

Attention!! Attention WalMart shoppers!! Karnak is having a special on SFC tactics for new players!!

Goto http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163361467.0.html

The price is right!! It's free!!

And, thank you for shopping at WalMart!!



BTW, this guide is good baseline model to adhere to. I used some of the ISC tactis in SG5.  Messa beat some people up real good!!  And, those droners could not toucha messa!!

[Riskyllama]

We should have some "volunteers" for each race write up some basic piloting guides, nothing fancy, but
some basic stuff
Get rid of some of the stereotypes-
For example all the "early" Lyran guides go on about "managing power" and how you have to keep
changing everything if you want to fly- it's crap

As much as I've quietly agreed with practically everything you've said for the past 3 days or so...guides are nice, but who reads them? The new guys have all spent the past day or two with bonk or someone like him actually getting onto the dyna, they dont wana read they wanna fly. RMs and ARMS and all the other pilots need to actively fly with these new guys and make them feel welcome and part of the team, not hand them another 10 page(however nice, and it is nice, Karnak, i've read it top to bottom 3 times) booklet. Once pilots have been flying a few days, they'll be more likely to read any lengthy posts on the subject of tactics.

[Hexx]

That's why I should have put in concise..

I'm thinking of like a 20 point bulletin that simply lists things to keep in mind whil
flying for race X

[Dfly]

I have heard many times that pilots who were GSA only(like me) that came to D2 had difficulties adapting to the new regime(my new word of this post).  They were captured, or deathdragged, or fought for 25 minutes, got stupid due to GSA games being short and died, etc.  I dont know why, but I never found any of this to be a problem for me.  I have never ever been captured(bet you guys all try to cap me now), won more PvP than I have lost(only exception being first Dyna, where I lost 1 more than I won), and even got to fly a Gorn CVA for days on my second campaign.  Luckily I was a veteran pilot in GSA, and a couple pilots in D2 here were quite willing to help me out for several missions in my first campaign.  It is up to all of US VETS to help out ALL newcommers, new to OP or just to D2.  I realise many of us have gotten well experienced at flying wing with particular individuals, and dont really want to break up your winging teammates and yourself, but for the sake of the community we need to do that at any time a newer person comes online.  If we dont, they wont be sticking around too long without some help to get past the rookie stages.

[FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC]

Sorry but there is no way to compress 4+ years of experience and pain , the highs and the lows , all the phases you wander through in  that time.
How long are we supposed to hold their hands.? I dont remember that anyone held ours.
ITs kinda futile imo, newbies either got the endurance to master the game or not .
I  am willing to fly with them but not much more.
I am not willing to pay "upkeep" just to hold them in the game.

[762_XC]

I am.

All I ask of any n00b is bring an open mind and a willingness to learn. Do that, and training you shall be my pleasure.

[KBF-Kapact]

I am.

All I ask of any n00b is bring an open mind and a willingness to learn. Do that, and training you shall be my pleasure.

+1 karma 762_XC  That kind of willingness to help is the only reason I stuck it out here......

[762_XC]

Well truth be told Kapact we need you guys as much as you need us. The way I see it, the more n00bs we get playing the game, the longer it lives. Pretty simple math.

It's also gratifying to see somebody you helped train develop into a good pilot. It takes time of course, but it's a rewarding process to witness.

[FA Frey XC]

Yea, I mean look how good I trained t00l !!!!!

 

[762_XC]

 

[KBF-Crim]

THAT calls for a re-post:

The REAL reason Tool's Fighters all chase off after admin shuttles...they look like a Catering Vans...



"Gold leader this is Red 6....you guys want anything from the roach coach?"

 

[762_XC]

Yeah the worst is when you hit Recall and that one group goes flying off towards the border. I always figure it's Porkins looking to get his Taco Bell fix.

[KBF-Kapact]

Well truth be told Kapact we need you guys as much as you need us. The way I see it, the more n00bs we get playing the game, the longer it lives. Pretty simple math.

It's also gratifying to see somebody you helped train develop into a good pilot. It takes time of course, but it's a rewarding process to witness.

Yeah, it's taken me a long time. And alot of my training has had to be offline, against an AI as cranked up as possible, because up until now, my dialup (from New Zealand for the last 3 years) hasn't allowed me much PvP. Now I come back, and I'm stuck behind a motel firewall. But I read every manual I can get, and practise as much as the wife will put up with  But on the rare PvP, I hold my own. And that is because people took the time to help, and never stopped answering questions.

[Dizzy]

I am.

All I ask of any n00b is bring an open mind and a willingness to learn. Do that, and training you shall be my pleasure.

+1 karma 762_XC  That kind of willingness to help is the only reason I stuck it out here......

Tool left out the part about a firm backside.

[762_XC]

Neg, I only need that from my b*tches like you!

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Yeah the worst is when you hit Recall and that one group goes flying off towards the border. I always figure it's Porkins looking to get his Taco Bell fix.

Taco Bell?  Judging from the sig I figured he liked Klingon Fried Chicken 

[Dizzy]

I swear I laugh every time I see tools sig, hahaha

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Here is another for you then Dizzy

[762_XC]

WTF! 

[el-Karnak]

 

What has my sigfile started???  Aye yii yiiii!!!

[KBF MalaK]

Muahahha, I just saw my first model I made for BC on battleclinic converted for SFC.  KOOLNESS !!!
Anyhow, who do I talk to to permanently join one of these 'clans' that play here on D2 ?? I figure it'd be easier to get trained from ones owns teammates, right ? GSA is fun but the only thing I learn there is how to hide behind your teammate. I wanna contribute !!!

[Hexx]

Actually I think the KBF/KHH/FSD are the last fleets around here
that actually tend to fly as fleets on the D2,
I have no idea how you go about joining one however
oddly enough no one's ever volunteered to show me...

[Sochin]

Thanks for that Hexx I know 9th havent been around on D2 for a while but where still alive and kicking.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Don't take it as an insult in your fleet being overlooked. It is Hexx saying it after all.

[KBF-Crim]

Anyhow, who do I talk to to permanently join one of these 'clans' that play here on D2 ?? I figure it'd be easier to get trained from ones owns teammates, right ? GSA is fun but the only thing I learn there is how to hide behind your teammate. I wanna contribute !!!

Posted by KBF-Crim:

It is said..." you do not find the KBF...the KBF finds you"

Honor...sportsmanship...instruction....brotherhood...

We are all equals...bound by a love for the game and our empire...our leaders lead, because they are the ones best suited to do so...not out of status or ego..

Membership is a lifetime affair.....two days gone...or two years...all warriors are welcome to fight as much...or as little as they have time for...and every member is welcomed back to the empire like the brothers they are...

The primary pre-requesit for membership is:

You flew for your empire,

When no one asked it of you...

When you where out numbered 5 to 1, and still showed up...

When you had more ships blown out from under you than you could afford...but didnt log off...

When you put empire before fleet or independance...

and that you did those things when you thought no one was watching....without complaint nor boast...

 

[Dfly]

Yeah the worst is when you hit Recall and that one group goes flying off towards the border. I always figure it's Porkins looking to get his Taco Bell fix.

Taco Bell?  Judging from the sig I figured he liked Klingon Fried Chicken 

Now I know(I hope) that I am not the only guy here who knows how to get those silly fighters back when they do that.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Anyhow, who do I talk to to permanently join one of these 'clans' that play here on D2 ?? I figure it'd be easier to get trained from ones owns teammates, right ? GSA is fun but the only thing I learn there is how to hide behind your teammate. I wanna contribute !!!

Posted by KBF-Crim:

It is said..." you do not find the KBF...the KBF finds you"

Honor...sportsmanship...instruction....brotherhood...

We are all equals...bound by a love for the game and our empire...our leaders lead, because they are the ones best suited to do so...not out of status or ego..

Membership is a lifetime affair.....two days gone...or two years...all warriors are welcome to fight as much...or as little as they have time for...and every member is welcomed back to the empire like the brothers they are...

The primary pre-requesit for membership is:

You flew for your empire,

When no one asked it of you...

When you where out numbered 5 to 1, and still showed up...

When you had more ships blown out from under you than you could afford...but didnt log off...

When you put empire before fleet or independance...

and that you did those things when you thought no one was watching....without complaint nor boast...

 

Agreed...

[Hexx]

Hmmm
started off flying this game as Klink

Flew for the Empire..
No one EVER asked me to fly for them.. 
Was outnumbered 10 -1 and showed up
Had many.many, ships blown out from undeneath me..
Always put the Empire first.

Dos this mean I've been KBF- Hexx all these years and just never realized it? 

sacre-bleu!

[KBF-Crim]

Hmmm
started off flying this game as Klink

Flew for the Empire..
No one EVER asked me to fly for them.. 
Was outnumbered 10 -1 and showed up
Had many.many, ships blown out from undeneath me..
Always put the Empire first.

Dos this mean I've been KBF- Hexx all these years and just never realized it? 

sacre-bleu!

I'm sorry Hexx...I must have left out the height requirement...

[KBFLordKrueg]

Hmmm
started off flying this game as Klink

Flew for the Empire..
No one EVER asked me to fly for them.. 
Was outnumbered 10 -1 and showed up
Had many.many, ships blown out from undeneath me..
Always put the Empire first.

Dos this mean I've been KBF- Hexx all these years and just never realized it? 

sacre-bleu!

I'm sorry Hexx...I must have left out the height requirement...

You beat me to it, Crim...

[KBFLordKrueg]

Hmmm
started off flying this game as Klink

Flew for the Empire..
No one EVER asked me to fly for them.. 
Was outnumbered 10 -1 and showed up
Had many.many, ships blown out from undeneath me..
Always put the Empire first.

Dos this mean I've been KBF- Hexx all these years and just never realized it? 

sacre-bleu!

Besides...who would lead the poor Lyrans if you went Klink...?
Never even suspected you'd be interested. You always seem to be on "the other side". 

[Hexx]

Never even suspected you'd be interested. You always seem to be on "the other side". 

It's not really that I was on the other side as that I realized I'm simply better
than all of you... 

And I suppose it would have made thrashing the KBF on KCW a little more problematic

[KBFLordKrueg]

Ah...now I remember why you've never been invited...