Topic: some MJ variant examples

[Mackie]

Heres a bunch... what other things could I possibly stick on it?

[FoaS_XC]

On the side of the hull you could throw a pair of downturned wings with heavy phasers on them. Kind of a counterpoint to the nacelles.

[Mr_Tricorder]

I really like the second one.  The third one just doesn't sit well with me, though.  Keep up the good work.

[Antivyrus]

what renderer do you use  I like the almost physical model look and feel to them  oh and nice work on the models also

[Mackie]

Foas: Where the heck would stuff the nacellas at?
Tricorder: Thanks, im just trying to put as many things on it as fits
Antivyrus: Those were quickly done low quality radiosity renders with Lightwave

[Norsehound]

If you're being serious, you could add an oberth saucer to the front or the back to make a stellar observation ship variant. Or maybe an axGSC.

[Mackie]

If you're being serious, you could add an oberth saucer to the front or the back to make a stellar observation ship variant. Or maybe an axGSC.

Stellar observation sounds more like... well... me

and oh yeah; science version

[Mackie]

Damn. the oberth saucer was too big... maybe i ought to resize it :p

[Starforce2]

oberth nacelles?

[Magnum357]

Ya, I think using Oberth Nacelles would really help out the design.  Also, have you considered assing a Pod used to Carry large numbers of Shuttles/Fighters?

[Dukrat]

I find the last an interesting design, looks like a early jet/space plane or something. 

[Centurus]

While the designs are nice and all, everytime I see this ship, I keep thinking about a late 23rd Century flying toilet.  I don't know why, but I always get the urge to lift the lid and flush.

The ships are great though, but that's just me.

[Mackie]

SF2: Yuck. ;p
Magnum: The pod sounds like a fairly good idea
Dukat: Thanks , I think
Daihak: You have a good imagination

[Norsehound]

If mackie put a brick in the midhull I can see the flying toilet.

Otherwise, it might make a good tug, too, even if it looks a little silly (What? We have a 747 Flying guppy! have you seen that thing?)

[Starforce2]

how large is it compared to an oberth saucer?

Perhaps make the nacelle pylons horizontal (nacelles too) and stick the obeth saucer on top except give it bay doors port starbaord fore and aft so it turns the saucer into a mobile shuttle carrier? Or perhaps colonail supply ship.

[Magnum357]

I sort of disagree with you SF2 about adding an Oberth Saucer section to it.  Why do all Fed ships have to have a saucer?  This ship looks more like an Auxilary Vessel designed to do a wide variety of roles and most likely not a pure warship.  I think adding Oberth Nacelles would make it look neat, but they would have to be a little longer then the ones we see on Oberths to make up for the larger hull we see here.

Mackie, I think SF2 might be suggesting a saucer to this because the ships engines feel like they "overpower" the total design.  May I suggest that you reduce the length of the warp pylons by a certain percentage?  Maybe about 75% of the length they are now?  That might help the overall design in my opinion.  And it would be nice to see this as a liight tug vessel, maybe have some sort of connction at the aft able to carry some sort of cargo pods or something.

[Norsehound]

The oberth's 'sacuer' isn't a saucer as much as it is a pod-like thing. Ent, ENT-A, B, C have saucers, the Oberth has something close to it.

If anything I'd like to see a pair of oberth 'saucers' mounted for a stellar obseration ship variant (Or a scout, or a presidential liner, or a shuttle tender, or an auxilurary carrier). Mount one where the bridge is now, the other one at the back. Since Oberth command pods have shuttlebays ringing the outside of the circle, it could send/recover shuttles for multiple missions.

That's just my say. I also say this is one of the most unique ships I've ever seen modled. Kudos!

[Mackie]

Like I said, the obert saucer is too big to be put on it, horizontally. No I havent changed the scales of the parts at all, I quess the original excelsior/obert scales are off o_O
But I quess I could try making one with Oberth's saucer in the back but I dont know where I could stick the oberths nacellas on it then?

One thing is sure, I will try making a variant that can carry more shuttles and a variant that has a saucer :p

And oh yeah!
"Vessel designed to do a wide variety of roles and most likely not a pure warship."
Thats exactly what it is

[Norsehound]

...Just out of curiosity, why would you need the oberth nacelles? If anything it's just extra power (at least to the SFB mind.. that's WARP.) and they'd probably look funny anyway.

[Mackie]

...Just out of curiosity, why would you need the oberth nacelles? If anything it's just extra power (at least to the SFB mind.. that's WARP.) and they'd probably look funny anyway.

I ment that I could try what it looks like with Oberth nacellas instead of the ones the ship has right now
And oh yeah, ive tried the oberth saucer idea a couple of times now, it looks horrible any way I try to set it up :/

[Starforce2]

...Just out of curiosity, why would you need the oberth nacelles? If anything it's just extra power (at least to the SFB mind.. that's WARP.) and they'd probably look funny anyway.

I meant instead of the connie nacelles, why would such a small ship need large expensive mainline nacelles?

[Mackie]

...Just out of curiosity, why would you need the oberth nacelles? If anything it's just extra power (at least to the SFB mind.. that's WARP.) and they'd probably look funny anyway.

I meant instead of the connie nacelles, why would such a small ship need large expensive mainline nacelles?

Suppose you could call it a fault in the design

[Mackie]

Command variant

[ModelsPlease]

It doesn't need a saucer, I agree. Maybe the oberth nacelles, I dunno I like it as an AUX. ship

[Mr_Tricorder]

That saucer looks like a squished safari hat. 

[Mackie]

That saucer looks like a squished safari hat. 

Yep

I was thinking of making an UFO with the command pod and 2 obert saucer halves

[Norsehound]

...um....

*docking with the survey ship from FORBIDDEN PLANET!*

Why not extend the impulse deck back a ways and mount one of the oberth command pods there? Mount the other one where the current bridge is now... that's how I saw a possible surveyship/shuttle tender.

[Mackie]

Like I said, the obert saucer is too big to be put on it, horizontally. No I havent changed the scales of the parts at all, I quess the original excelsior/obert scales are off o_O

And oh yeah, ive tried the oberth saucer idea a couple of times now, it looks horrible any way I try to set it up :/

[Starforce2]

Command variant

that actualy looks cool. Perhaps something for the private sector or executive yacht or something...but it does work.

[Magnum357]

Hey Mackie, could you make a version with Warp Pylon lengths reduced by 25%?  I'm just curious how the engines would look with that slight modification.

As for Oberth Nacelles on it, aren't Oberth Nacelles suppose to be cheaper/less maintance but are less powerful then standard Warp engines?

[Norsehound]

If that were the case, why weren't constitutions fitted with them? I think different designer for a different market- science vessels aren't supposed to be huge warships. It's like a trawler compared to a battlecruiser in today's wet-navy. The Refit Constitution and the Miranda carry what I feel is the standard nacelle for combat-grade starfleet vessels.

And here's an idea: Mirror the excelsior hull and put it on the top of the current one.

[Magnum357]

I'm not exactly sure what you are driving at.  But if you want to compare it to our wet-navy we see today, I remember watching a TV show once that talked about the evolution of Ship propulsion in Commercial and Navy Warships.  What I thought was interesting was that most navel warships (with a few exceptions) are all based on Spine-turbine design which are expensive to maintain, but produce a lot of power and have less "man-power" maintance.  While most Auxialry ships in the Navy used for other things duties have simple old Hydrolic systems that require more maintance and have less speed, but can provide good power and easy maintance.

What I'm try to say is what is wrong with the idea of Oberth Warp Engines being a Simpler less expensive type?

[Norsehound]

Simpler, less expensive, less power, less demand, less stress.

The Grissom was blown up in one shot. It's engines couldn't provide power for the shields, for significant weapons, or anything of that sort. It's main purpose is to provide a ship with warp power and main power for sensors and instruments.

Comparatively, a system like the Consitituion Refit carries a system meant for combat. A ship like that needs to be that capable. The Oberth was never intended to be in any kind of combat situation, whereas ships like the Constitution are seen as front line warships and thus need more power, more resiliancy, and able to withstand combat stresses.

And the Excelsior was supposedly transwarp. Fail or no, the new engines are meant to power a (then) Battlecruiser/Dreadnought sized starship, which would fill that role if Starfleet went to war. This meant it should have the power to survive the beating from a D7 and hurt it enough to make it go away, stop moving, or cease to exist as one functional starship.

So adding the nacelles to this design means (in a SFB Point of view) adding auxilurary engines to increase total power output. Some mainline variants to this anyway- like the F5W with an additional frigate engine (of course, SFC doesn't reflect this).

Travesty, IMO, is when you replace the engines with oberth ones. They just aren't designed to carry the weight of a combat vessel. That's a good explaination why the Okinawa does not use Oberth engines- they aren't combat optimized.

And then there's size ratio. The Oberth is a small 'civilian' vessel with something like three phasers, not much else. This ship looks like the size of an Excelsior main hull and mounts a pair of constitution engines- a good choice, since it seems to be a stand-in cruiser. Sticking oberth nacelles on a big ship is like a shipyard giving a modern carrier oars to make it move. You need either a lot of them (oars and manpower), or bigger engines (No, no bigger oars, a bigger propultion system- ala turbines, propellers, etx.)

[Magnum357]

It sounds like you are saying that Mackies design is suppose to stand up in front-line combat.  I thought he said this is basically a Multifunctional Auxilary Unit?  Maybe once in a while in Front line combat, but must of the time not.

I do agree that the Oberth engines are not designed for combat.

[Mackie]

Right, right.
Its an auxiliary vessel alright but I dont want to have it blown up in the first bloody shot and besides, the exploration variant already on its own needs larger warps...
And its a good auxiliary vessel at that too, its none of those backwater types made from the cheapest materials possible...
As you already can see, the ship can scout, explore, provide fast-attacks, provide space control (command) and can be used as an advanced science ship since it has a good power supply for the most extensive and power desiring epuiqment.
And once I get started again it can carry troops back from and to the frontlines and be a good field hospital with decent defenses, if thats required of its class.
Some of its missions are crucial for the success of larger scale operations even if its not battling the enemies on constant basis, theres no place for a power failure.

Hell, I was even thinking of doing a blockade runner variant with three warp engines and additional impulse engines.

[Mackie]

Alright, im trying to get back into modding the MJ class so if anyone knows and sorry if ive asked before, would anyone happen to know where I could find a retexed transport or a carrier pod? I remember someone once retexed my TOS carrier pod bash 

[ModelsPlease]

Maybe Firesoul has one Mackie.