Topic: *Sigh*

[Bonk]

So you're saying only a hardware firewall is secure?

                                             Wraith 413

No there is no guarantee of security from any firewall. I'm just saying software firewalls are unreliable and unpredicatable and can only serve to introduce problems. Software firewalls are for the most part drivers that emulate another network adapter and implement a NAT solution to filter IP traffic. This can only introduce lag and is not nearly as reliable as the proven solution of the hardware equivalent of dual network adapters on a router running VXworks or a *nix box serving as a NAT gateway.

[Bonk]

Just try it and see... see if you can get several players in a D2 mission who are absolutely sure they have no software firewalls running. Make sure no players with software firewalls are present. I guarantee that mission stability can only improve. I know this from years of experience.

[Hexx]

.

Also, stay off the porn sites and you'll find your machine the subject of way fewer attack attempts...

Yeah, but the price would be too high...

[Bonk]

.

Also, stay off the porn sites and you'll find your machine the subject of way fewer attack attempts...

Yeah, but the price would be too high...

Huh? Price? What price?

"Teleport pro" <--- I did not reccomend this

[Dizzy]

Well, I dunno how it happened, but my firewall got turned on, by itself mb. I was able to connect with hex on Co-ops fine last night, but whenever we did a PvP, I crashed out... and Hexx loaded alone and was horribly raped.

I turned it off and logged in and no more crashes. Cant figure out when it turned on. Mb I did a reboot?

But Bonks mb right, my firewall blocked some connections from some peeps and not others.

[Bonk]

But Bonks mb right, my firewall blocked some connections from some peeps and not others.

Halle-frickin-lujah! See the light! I have seen this plenty of times. Do people think I make this stuff up just for kicks? Sheesh...

[Bonk]

Someday I would love to see a D2 server where nobody logs in with a software firewall, The db will stay clean because missions will not drop, the server will be more stable because its netcode will not get unexpected weirdness. I'd especially like to see it on a stock MySQL test.

The trick is that once installed, most users have trouble completely disabilng software firewalls. The current firewall detector server on the directory server cannot detect software firewalls that are configured to allow the exe.  I would like to see the firewall detector modified to be more sophiticated and deny logins from such clients. I suspect the directplay test host in SFC3 was motivated by this and is a step in the right direction.

[Bonk]

OK, so maybe the # missions per move setting did destabilise the server... sometimes I just have to learn things the hard way I guess. I can be rather bullheaded. My firewall comments stand however.

It is nice to see that this shiplist donation structure allows the use of EEK missions. 

[FA Frey XC]

Here's another hint:

If you are running Windows XP SP2:

If you go into Control Panel, Administrative Tools, Computer Management, Services

and look up the service " Windows Firewall / Internet Connection Sharing" service.

Set this to "Disabled", and you will NEVER have to worry about Window's built in firewall starting up un-expectedly.

Bottom line, Virus's cannot do NAT. Period. Hackers probing external IP addresses will not be able to get into your machine unless your Router is a complete POS and you're in the DMZ. Even so, taking some simple precautions like setting up the internal subnet to be a non-standard range like 192.168.25.X instead of the default 192.168.0.X can really do the trick.

Software firewalls are there because people don't want to learn the proper and safe methods of surfing the web and opening email.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[Braxton_RIP]

Haha.  Don't even start saying how software firewalls are insecure, because I have seen software firewalls that will out perform any hardware firewall.  All I use are software firewalls, I never shut them down, and I haven't had a problem playing OP, SFC3, NWN, BF2, WOW, and the multitude of other games I find time for.

Do you experience lag and player drops in SFC missions?

Are you running the windows firewall and Zonealarm simultaneously?

Have you ever tried to run a reliable server behind said firewalls?

Software firewalls are highly unreliable. A router and secure OS setup are far more reliable.

Also, stay off the porn sites and you'll find your machine the subject of way fewer attack attempts...

Rarely.

Zonealarm is, not to sound big or anything, a little below the protection I need on a machine.

Currently servers: MS SourceSafe 6, TS, VPN.  In the past I have run OP/SFC3 servers as well as NWN, BF1942/Viet./2, AoE I/II, Empire Earth, as well as any other games.

Unreliable is an oppinion   Hardware firewalls are very open to attack if you know how.  That is something I won't get into here though, don't need people knowing how to bug hardware.

[Bonk]

BlackIce has also given me unpredictable results with OP.

Please do not encourage people to use software firewalls while playing OP. I'm begging you here. I know for a fact that they are bad for OP. That is not an opinion.

If your machine is holding invaluable intellectual property or something that will get you in trouble, then just use another computer to play OP from where you will not require a software firewall. Does that sound like a reasonable solution?

Again, please do not encourage the use of software firewalls with OP, it is just a bad idea.

Think about the drafting, mission and server stability before software firewalls became common...

If you absolutely refuse to believe it then I guess we'll have to do an experiment to prove it, if we can only get people over the paranoia.... A firewall may show dozens of hits but the vast majority of them are harmless whether you have a firewall up or not, as long as your OS is secure.

Software firewalls are bad for networks, period. Please do not encourage their use with OP, thank you.

[Braxton_RIP]

Someone really needs to calm down and realize we are talking about a game here.  I'm not "encouraging" people to use a software firewall, I am just saying that you shouldn't just openly go and denounce them as some useless piece of trash, because they arn't.  I don't keep anything but a select few work files on my computer, but having been in the Air Force in SAC, knowing the things I do, you had better believe that I am going to firewall myself till kingdom come.

Lets put it this way.  My wife is working for a bank now, in the wealth management department.  Somehow, she got the account of the creator of VeriSign (If you don't know what that is, it is the program that runs the most of the security protocols on the net).  Anyway, this guy is a genious when it comes to computers, yet he won't even let the bank put his data onto their system electronically.  If the guy who invented the security won't trust it, why should I?

You really do need to calm down a little bit though, because your really taking what I am saying over the top, which has is never a good thing.

[Dizzy]

Change thre title of this thread to firewall flame... or something.

p81 logged on tonight and soreyes and I couldnt draft him. He said he had a built in foirewall he couldnt turn off. How do we get it fixed?

[Bonk]

Um, whatever, sure, feel superior, talk down to me, whatever makes you feel better.

VeriSign cannot be trusted, they tried to undermine the public DNS system. Only Entrust can be trusted. Thawte signs malware regularly.

Software firewalls are still bad for OP dynaverse servers. That is all I am trying to say.

I am calm, but you're tone is beginning to offend me. Understand?

I am not taking this over the top, I am saying software firewalls are bad for OP that is all.

I think you need to re-evaluate your attitude. I am beginning to wonder why you are so sensitive about this.

I think we need to make more sophisticated firewall detection a priority for the serverkit source project.

[Braxton_RIP]

Wow dude, ask anyone on the Alliance side and they will tell you I'm pretty layed back, don't know what your getting at, but you don't need to go off and immediately assume that I am trying to put you down.  After this post, I am done with this subject, because I don't want to start yet another confilict in the world of D2.

What I don't understand is why you think I am "sensitive about this."  Do you think I am a threat to you or something of that nature?  Do you think I have a reason try an somehow undermine what your doing?  Bonk, you have to realize who your talking to.  I spend days online between campaigns on Amazon and ebay buying copies of OP and giving them to people saying "Here, this is for you.  You don't have pay me for it, my repayment will be you playing it."  I may not be like you, programming server kits, or Tracey writing missions, but, by God, at least recognize the fact that I am trying to help this community just as much as the next man.  Hell, I have even stepped up and offered to help you and Tracey and whoever else wants it programming.  So going off and blatantly saying that I am talking down to you is down right insulting.  Insulting to the point it again brings me to wonder why I sit there doing the things I do for this game and this community.  It makes me quite sad to see you say the thigs you did to me because telling me to re-evaluate my attitude when all I said was you shouldn't discount something as garbage just because of a bad experiance with ZoneAlarm.

As I said though.  I am done with this.  I am insulted at the way you make assumptions about what I am saying, and I leave the matter in your hands.  I will say though that I will kindly revoke any offers to help out, this subject has shed light to the fact that I am not too welcome into the further development of our server-side projects.

[Mog]

Bonk, you really need to start toking again.

[Bonk]

Bonk, you really need to start toking again.

Not until I no longer have to run from and be exploited and opressed by those who would keep it illegal for their own self interest, profit and misguided morals. I must wage this war from a postion of strength, which will take at least a few years of going without, so that my message cannot be brushed off as that of a stoner. We will win, logic and love must prevail.

But we do wander way off topic...

Software firewalls are bad for dynaverse servers, regardless of what anyone says to the contrary, for whatever reasons. That is all.