Topic: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..  (Read 3708 times)

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Offline Hexx

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OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« on: October 04, 2005, 07:27:59 pm »
OK
I'm thinking (after KCW) it might be entertaining to try and run a *semi* OOB server
Why a *semi*? Well- say what you want, but (mho) getting stuck in something like a D6 /CWp and
drafting someone in a CCH isn't going to be alot of fun, and we really don't have the number of pilots needed to fill out an
OOB
-It should take place in the later war years, I know some of you like the early stuff, but some of the early lins ships
don't stand a chance against others (Stock D6 vs Hellbores?)
- Other issues (imho) are that the provided SFB OOB's are artificially low, the number of ships presented could not effectively
have waged the General War,given the distances and speeds that would have been needed.

Anyway- looking through the "Brief History of the General War" I'd like to propose/gauge interest in a limited OOB server based around
Operation Cavalry
Operation Cavalry was the Alliance offensive into Klingon space (2282)
Essentially it combined Federation, Kzin,and Gorn units attacking the Klingons, supported by both Lyran and Romulan squadrons.

-It's interesting to note that the Alliance FLEET was shattered attacking a Starbase, -maybe ours are still a little weak  ;D


It would provide I think an excellent attempt at OOB as it is late enough that the CB's have become somewhat standard
This achieves at leaast some sort of parity across the races. It also involves all races except for the Hydrans, and (if needed) could be
tweaked to include them.

The OOB I was thinking of would involve a finite number of Capital + Specialty ships.
So yes, there would be CVA's/DN's/BCH's/CVD's/BCS/Droners/Fast Cruisers,
-There would be a limited number of them available the whole server, ie you might get 2CF's once two have been lost
you don't get anymore,
-Other rules (for attempted "realism") would include heavy ship damage- at a certain point (say 100 internals) a Capital ship
can not be flown for X number of days as it requires some extensive repairs, at anothe point (say 200 internals) the ship
is considered destroyed for all intents and purposes (as it requires a complete rebuild/refit at a major shipyard)
No more pounding a CVA into the ground only to have it ready to go 2 minutes later

This of course also means that a heavier ship has to be a little more careful, it can't simply use it's ability to soak damage to
run down and destroy a smaller ship- if the smaller ship amanges to inflict the amount of damage needed, the big guy has to pull out.

-The allied (Kzin/Gorn/Romulan/Lyran) ships would be bound by the same rules,as well as another clause- if X number of allied ships
are lost, their respective governments would call them home. -The war is still raging everywhere, and none of the allied powers have ships
to throw away on the Klink/Fed border.

Reinforcements
-Some limited OOB ship reinforcement would be available to the Federation and Klingon Empire
(the Allies aren't about to throw anymore ships into the campaign)
This would be predetermined, and would result in major ships being replaced by something a little smaller
(CVA is destroyed, xdays later a BCS shows up, lose a DNH, get an XCA in a day or so)
This would only be for the sides major ships- CVA/DN class etc.

Rivalries
-Just to add some "flavour" their would be bonus points awarded for having OOB ships of a certain type
destroyed by an opposing OOB ship of a specfic type (ie C8VK killing a CVA+ is worth a few more points than
3 D7W's gunning down the CVA+)
This would only be on a few of the bigger OOB ships, either pre-determined or left to the RM's discretion.


Thoughts? Comments? Anyhting you'd like to see on a OOB server?

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Offline Dfly

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2005, 07:33:01 pm »
I would be game to fly in such a thing.

Offline FPF-Wanderer

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2005, 07:48:15 pm »
I think by now everyone knows my opinion on this subject.

-Wanderer, OOB-phile
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Offline KBFLordKrueg

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2005, 08:10:51 pm »
I would possibly be willing to fly on such a server...
Shouldn't you be concentrating on your next project FIRST rather letting your mind wander to something else...?  :P
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Offline Hexx

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2005, 08:15:24 pm »
I would possibly be willing to fly on such a server...
Shouldn't you be concentrating on your next project FIRST rather letting your mind wander to something else...?  :P

Part of my charm..
if I concentrate on one project to much I'll change it a dozen or so times, so I try and keep two or three going so I can make sure something
like KCW doesn't turn into an Andro vs Jindarian war...

... Jindarians.. J'inn... rocks.. asteroids..

Have I missed this all this time or is it a coincidence??
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762_XC

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2005, 08:37:19 pm »
I like OOB. I like OOB campaigns. I like historical OOB campaigns.

You go shorty.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2005, 09:07:33 pm »
OOB = Big pain in the ass.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2005, 09:30:25 pm »
If you are going to do a strick OOB, you might as well set up a map like STOC's VG and run your own mini-F&E campaign.

Arrange meetings on GSA and fly the battles.
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2005, 09:35:04 pm »
If you are going to do a strick OOB, you might as well set up a map like STOC's VG and run your own mini-F&E campaign.

Arrange meetings on GSA and fly the battles.

this makes more sense, D2 is too loose for something that structured
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Lepton

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2005, 09:53:12 pm »
Don't be discouraged by the nay-sayers,  Hexx.  I think it is a great idea.  You know, Bearslayer, the ultimate answer to anything that isn't standard D2 is not always some sort of GSA campaign.  You may have been involved in such an endeavour, but I think we all know how well that went.


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Offline Hexx

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2005, 10:13:19 pm »
Again -it would be limited OOB
CCH's (and below to a degree) would be usable by all
(Or maybe NCC's/NCA's, it would have to be something that balanced well across the races)
Only the specialty ships would be restricted.

Currently all of our servers for all intents and purposes have the maximum number of
DN's/CVA's/ Whatver flying around after the 4th or 5th day.
Lose one- no big deal, someone else will hop into one and keep the pressure on.

Currently there are no restrcitions on who can use what ships where, feel Roms are best kiiled
by Hydran ships? No problem, just have your 5 pilots sign on and move them all to the Hydran front.
Want to use Gorn to smash the Lyrans? Just log in and it's done.

This server (and only this, and maybe a few more servers- not trying to make everyone follow the ideas)
would try to

- Simulate the actual nature of the Allied Governments ex- the Gorn are fighitng the Roms, they won't be allowing their entire strength
  to go off and help the feds while their own territory is overrun.(which has happened) Same with the Roms/Kzin/Lyrans
  After a set number of ships (including,but not limited to the OOB ships) are killed in PVP the race will recall it's squadrons
  This will permit anyone to fly the races iniatially, but with some consequences. Yes I may go to bed one night with a Lyran BCH on my account, overnight
  have anotehr set of Lyran players lose 5 (for example) PVP matches. Next time I sign in I'm flying Klink or Rom.

- Simulate the actual cost of losing a CVA or DN. Right now it's like mentioned above, you lose a DN , someone else
  signs in with one, killing a capital ship means nothing other than costing someone  30k from a 300k account. It's even more intensive
  with BCH's.

- Simulate the fact that capital ships had to be carefully used, they were expensive to repair. I've flown missions (and had them flown against me)
  where the capital ship pilot just soaks up the damage, getting badly hurt but just uses their superior size/firepower to mow opponetns down.
  Then spends 200pp and 15 seconds to repair their DNH/BCH/whatever and continues on. This will make a damaged ship actually be withdrawn for a day or more
   if the pilot suffers xx amount of damage in a mission.

There won't be any "assigned" ships. Anyone (afaic) can fly whatver they want. Specialty ship losses will simply be noted, and ships will (as possible) be "R"d out
after a set number of them are lost in PVP.
Reinforcements for the Capital ships will be determined in adavnce, -you'll know what you'll get if your C8VK is lost, but it won't be another C8, likely a C7S or D6U
Lose the second one and you'll possibly not be getting anything else.

As I said, I'm not advocating this for all servers, and I'm not saying it should be strict OOB- I don't think it balances well for this game, and I really don't like
SFB's OOB in the first place. I am getting bored though of servers where players have multiple accounts, each with a different races DN/BCH that are used against whichever enemy they work best against with utterly no consequences. Or players using Hydran or Romulan accounts to fight somewhere while their "home" territory is conquered simply because those races ships are better at PVP against a non traditional ally.

Really it's actually a fairly simple setup to keep track of.





  
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Offline Lepton

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2005, 10:42:19 pm »
Not sure if this is too restrictive, but it might also be nice if the production time of a ship were factored into this OOB.  If a capital ship is lost, it should not be immediately replaceable.


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Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2005, 01:44:49 am »
I think a server based on the ficticional history of SFB would be the best possible place to use and OOB system.  I'm sure alot of pilots would love to fly such a setup and it would likely be alot of fun for them.

Unfortunately I'm not one of them as I personally loathe detailed OOB, but I wish you well in this endevour Hexx, I'm sure alot of people will be very happy to play on such a server and I'm willing to assist you in any way I can short of flying on it.  You need roleplay threads?  You need pics?  You need an impartial judge?  Just give me a call.

Chuut the OOB-phobe

Offline Julin Eurthyr

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2005, 06:00:12 am »
While I like the concept behind this OOB, as it shows a lot of thought, something tells me the whole mess wouldn't fly...

The whole "X% damage forces the withdrawl (loss) of the cap ship for up to a day (no player can fill that slot)" routine will lead to arguments as the cap ship player will attempt to cite the damage was just below the threshold, while the enemy will insist that the cap ship needs to be offline for a day.  Screenshots will, obviously, prove inconclusive, claim to be doctored, etc. etc. waah waah...

Then the whole "race X is removed from the game once enough PvP losses are suffered" probably would slash the playerbase, as history has proven that quite a few players aren't fond of flying ships they're not familiar with.

It does sound like an interesting scenerio though, and I would love to be proven wrong.  Good luck with your work on this...

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Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2005, 06:31:07 am »
Don't be discouraged by the nay-sayers, Hexx. I think it is a great idea. You know, Bearslayer, the ultimate answer to anything that isn't standard D2 is not always some sort of GSA campaign. You may have been involved in such an endeavour, but I think we all know how well that went.

OOB servers have both hindered and helped the community. Julin & Chuut have both lent points to that.

Hexx is proposing something that is very similar to F&E, the D2 server set up is too limited for what he wants without a lot of player interaction.

You will end up doing all the same paper work/ship shuffling that involved damaged ships in STOC's Virtual Galaxy.
Political Correctness is really Political Censorship

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Offline C-Los

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2005, 07:05:07 am »
Thanks but No-Thank You ...........  :(
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Offline Grim

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2005, 08:37:51 am »
I'm not a fan of OOB either which can be pretty much seen in some of the old OOB debate threads. From a personal standpoint i am pretty much done with flying in focused OOB servers.

But the usual point comes to mind, if you have the players who want to fly on such a server Hexx then run it, its good to have a variety of different types of servers even though there may be some who do not like the server concept.

Offline Hexx

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2005, 09:02:10 am »
First- i actually think I could do a case study on people who dislike anything with OOB in the title  ;D

Anyways- I'm actually kinda hurt by the response. I put the time and effort in to create an idea and it gets shot down without anyone even actually reading it. I mean how long ahve I flown with you guys? And you can't even be bothered to realize one thing.

I'm lazy.  :P

I'm not proposing a huge complicated server tracked how many ships have used type one drones today kind of thing. I do not believe an actual SFB OOB server would work, the ships we lost in the first day of SGO would cripple any of the SFB based fleets.

It's simply an easy record keeping (which involves "R"ing ships out of the yard) system.
Only those cheese mongers of you who feel the need to always be able to fly the special ships will be effected
(see DH? That's how you start some flames)
(and before anyone actually takes offense-
I fly CWLPs/BCH/BCV/STL's and that's about it..)

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762_XC

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2005, 09:27:27 am »
If it ever gets off the ground Hexx, I will be happy to help with the admin/development.

Offline CaptJosh

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2005, 11:43:59 am »
Well, I read through the whole thing, and it sounds like a pain in the ass, Hexx. If you want the migraine that would go with this, you're  welcome to it.

That said, I raise an additional caveat. You can't tell how many internals are being done to your own ship. How would you know to withdraw at 200+ damage when you can't tell how much damage that is?
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Offline Hexx

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2005, 11:54:17 am »
Well, I read through the whole thing, and it sounds like a pain in the ass, Hexx. If you want the migraine that would go with this, you're  welcome to it.

I think I'm becoming more and more amazed at the number of people who have read it, but think it will more difficult to keep track of than what we do now. It won't.
Fortunately I'm not a graduate of the American Public School system (bsed on the NJ model I assume)
I can handle the details.  8)

Quote
That said, I raise an additional caveat. You can't tell how many internals are being done to your own ship. How would you know to withdraw at 200+ damage when you can't tell how much damage that is?

I must have forgotten to mention , no disengagement in patrol missions (after combat begins of course)
without an enemies permission. So not an issue. Otherwise it's a surprsie..
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Offline CaptJosh

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2005, 11:59:57 am »
So...what? Then they can stick around and destroy the enemy, but if they get more than 200 internals, they have to retire the ship? That'd be interesting to try enforcing...
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Offline Hexx

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2005, 12:15:57 pm »
Should be easy
DH(DNH) & his faithful lapdog Bear (NCD+) draft Kreug (C10K) and Spanky the Wonder Dog
(D5D)
Bear smacks into a planet, DH is now fighting Kruegy and Spanky. DH makes a close range pass
on Spanky, D5D eats a DNH alpha and goes away.
Krueg, fighting with insane inspiration (and my guiding voice on TS) kills the DNH.
At the end of the mission DH announces that he scored @ 150 internals ( numbers are completely made up, I have no idea how many internals a Dn can take) the C10K is taken out of the OOB line up for @ 24hrs.


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Offline CaptJosh

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2005, 12:21:17 pm »
And you expect players to remember still another detail? We have a hard enough time remembering to report kills before we forget who we killed!
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2005, 02:39:25 pm »
I do not think D2 is the best venue for a campaign such as this.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2005, 02:43:33 pm »
Should be easy
DH(DNH) & his faithful lapdog Bear (NCD+) draft Kreug (C10K) and Spanky the Wonder Dog
(D5D)
Bear smacks into a planet, DH is now fighting Kruegy and Spanky. DH makes a close range pass
on Spanky, D5D eats a DNH alpha and goes away.
Krueg, fighting with insane inspiration (and my guiding voice on TS) kills the DNH.
At the end of the mission DH announces that he scored @ 150 internals ( numbers are completely made up, I have no idea how many internals a Dn can take) the C10K is taken out of the OOB line up for @ 24hrs.


Easy breezy beautiful covergirl.

Good thing you said 'Bear' vs 'Bearslayer'.... you might have been talking about me and I would have to get offended. ;D
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Offline KAT J'inn

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2005, 02:51:06 pm »
Variety . . . as servers go . .  is good.

Some with OOB
Some not
Some with rules
Some not
Some with Hexx
Some not

I like choices.

Offline Hexx

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2005, 03:44:49 pm »
Should be easy
DH(DNH) & his faithful lapdog Bear (NCD+) draft Kreug (C10K) and Spanky the Wonder Dog
(D5D)
Bear smacks into a planet, DH is now fighting Kruegy and Spanky. DH makes a close range pass
on Spanky, D5D eats a DNH alpha and goes away.
Krueg, fighting with insane inspiration (and my guiding voice on TS) kills the DNH.
At the end of the mission DH announces that he scored @ 150 internals ( numbers are completely made up, I have no idea how many internals a Dn can take) the C10K is taken out of the OOB line up for @ 24hrs.


Easy breezy beautiful covergirl.

Good thing you said 'Bear' vs 'Bearslayer'.... you might have been talking about me and I would have to get offended. ;D


Uhm
noooo

It was that other Bear we have around here.
The evil one.
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Offline Dfly

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2005, 06:26:14 pm »
Well, I read through the whole thing, and it sounds like a pain in the ass, Hexx. If you want the migraine that would go with this, you're  welcome to it.

That said, I raise an additional caveat. You can't tell how many internals are being done to your own ship. How would you know to withdraw at 200+ damage when you can't tell how much damage that is?

Well then Josh perhaps you just dont bother to read the reports after the battle.  It CLEARLY states how much DAMAGE you  took, how many INTERNALS you took, how much damage your team took, and how much damage your ENEMY took, etc...  A screenshot of this would guarantee there is accountability.

Offline CaptJosh

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2005, 02:33:53 pm »
Dfly, you missed the point. Hexx was suggesting that after a certain amount of internals, a player would have to withdraw. You can't tell in mission how many internals your own ship is taking.
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Offline Dfly

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2005, 07:25:22 pm »
Actually Josh, you better scan up and read again.  He clearly states that After a mission where the damage is X amount, you must pull that ship from service.

Here Josh is an excerpt from the Quote  " At the end of the mission DH announces that he scored @ 150 internals ( numbers are completely made up, I have no idea how many internals a Dn can take) the C10K is taken out of the OOB line up for @ 24hrs."

It sure sounds to me, and most likely others, that it is AT THE END OF THE MISSION.  This would mean that the numbers would be taken from where I SAID.   :P

Offline Hexx

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2005, 07:33:21 pm »
Yeah, the ship would be withdrawn (from the front) after the battle is over
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Offline Mog

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2005, 02:11:00 am »
I think Josh is usually too busy ogling Tracey's sig pics to actually read stuff  ;D
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Offline CaptJosh

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2005, 09:14:15 am »
Actually, I'm more interested Tracy's mind than pictures that aren't even of her, Mog. I think she's very likely smarter than I am, and that's just hot.

As for misreading Hexx's post. Oops. *grins sheepishly* Must have been half asleep or something. How did I get that from what he actually typed? *scratches head confuzzledly*
CaptJosh

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who understand binary and those who don't.

Offline Braxton_RIP

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2005, 12:25:41 pm »
This is the fourth thread that I have read today and the fourth one that had changed topic to TG.... Quite funny really.
Braxton,
Old Geezer

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Offline Hexx

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2005, 12:53:26 pm »
This is the fourth thread that I have read today and the fourth one that had changed topic to TG.... Quite funny really.

Yeah I think little Josh is growing up..
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline CaptJosh

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2005, 02:00:59 pm »
You're a fine one to be calling someone little, shorty. Hush up before I step on you.
CaptJosh

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who understand binary and those who don't.

Offline likkerpig

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2005, 02:16:22 pm »
You kids play nice!
Uncle 'Pig has a hellva hangover and don't need to hear a couple of midgets squallering!
Keep it up and I'll tan both yer asses with an esg lance... don't say I didn't warn ya!
"Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby."



Offline KBF-Kapact

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Re: OOB Servers, Speak or hold your peace..
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2005, 04:57:50 pm »
Sounds good to me. Has that role-playing element we've talked about. All I have to do is get out of this friggin' motel....
KBF-Kapact
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{sound of explosion}
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