Poll

Are fast cruisers cheese?

Yes, these ships are cheese.
9 (30%)
N, thay are not.
21 (70%)

Total Members Voted: 30

Topic: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>  (Read 6045 times)

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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« on: October 04, 2005, 05:49:31 pm »
Let the flaming begin!
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2005, 06:12:12 pm »
Yes they are cheese, but non-fat cheese.

Offline Hexx

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2005, 06:47:37 pm »
<sigh> Amateur wannabe flame starting pollsters..

Are they cheese compared to a CC? Yes
Compared to a CCH? Not really
Compared to a HDW? No

Now the fast Dreads are like mozarella & cheddar all rolled into one..
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Offline Dfly

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2005, 07:27:52 pm »
Not real Cheese, more like processed.  Spreads great over smaller ships, but dies vs a lot of other stuff.

762_XC

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2005, 08:39:12 pm »
No, they are Cheez Whiz.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2005, 09:00:21 pm »
It is infinitely easier to kill somebody while flying an F-CF than it is flying an F-CC+. 
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Hexx

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2005, 09:36:55 pm »
It is infinitely easier to kill somebody while flying an F-CF than it is flying an F-CC+. 

Which is of course what I said.. what about a CB though?
CF's (imo) are pretty much obsolete with the CCH's
DNL's are competive all the way to X tech.
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2005, 10:04:03 pm »
It is infinitely easier to kill somebody while flying an F-CF than it is flying an F-CC+. 

Which is of course what I said.. what about a CB though?
CF's (imo) are pretty much obsolete with the CCH's
DNL's are competive all the way to X tech.

Not denying DNLs are cheese.

In the Case of the F-CF versus the F-CB, the F-CF still has some advantages, it depends on your fighting style and who you are flying against.   
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline FPF-Wanderer

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2005, 10:06:55 pm »
<cough>OOB<cough>
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Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2005, 11:03:14 pm »
I think it really depends on thefast cruiser in question and the foes for that server.  A gorn BF for example is not cheesy fighting vs the ISC, but would be vs the Kzin, until fast drones arrive.  A Klingon fast cruiser isn't really very cheesy vs the Kzin, but likely would be vs the Romulans.  The Lyran and the Kzinti fast cruisers aren't really cheesy vs anyone since no one would really fly them anyhow.  So kinda hard to cast a vote.

Offline Julin Eurthyr

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2005, 06:29:34 am »
My take:

The whole concept of the fast cruiser is to remove 2 "heavy" weapons and replace them with 2 "lighter" phasers, and add more powerful / faster warp drives.

This results in a ship with a great powercurve (often better than the base hull's original powercurve), and the weapons to perform a specific tactic, ie, phaser-boat.

I've noticed the following trends / notes on the various CFs:

The Fed CF and Gorn BF (probably the I-CF, but it doesn't come out till after the Z-refits and practically on top of X-tech) ships all benefit immensely from the conversion.  They trade in multi-turn HWs for faster-firing phasers, and the improved powercurve allows them to fly faster / offset that maneuverability problem some.
The Lyran CF (whatever one it is) may benefit, since I've never studied it, I don't know if it loses ESGs for phasers or dizzies.  As I don't hear lots of stories / reports of this ship, I would tend to believe that the maulers are better choices for the typical Lyran.
Rommie Fasthawks, I've heard, are a mixed bag.  Being phaser-deficient to begin with, losing the heavy-hitting torps to get standard-CA level phaser suites doesn't make it a superior PvP boat, and with the dearth of dedicated Rommies the ship doesn't get a lot of air-time.  However, there's usually enough requests / use to show me that there's something there, if you know what you're doing... ;)
Klinks could use their fast cruisers advantageously, I've heard they're up with the Fed / Gorn models.  Didn't the Fast-cruiser loving Gorns use them to great effect during the GW series of servers?  However, as "traditional" Klinks don't tend to use them, it sounds they fall under the "best limburger is the one nobody smells" effect.
The Hydran CF is another ship I don't hear a lot about.  Is it because they don't fly well under "typical" Hydran tactics (ie, they fly faster than their fighters, aren't great at the close-in smack like a fusion boat, and lose the long-range sniping from the hellbores), or are they just not-flied like Klink fast boats are?
Mirak CFs, and I agree with them, were built cheap.  They are the lowest BPVed CFs out there, like 20 BPV smaller than the next-smallest CF, and I completely disagree with the weapon choices (they lose drones, have chintzy dizzy arcs, and like Rommies don't really have the phasers to phaser-boat).  They do need some study / possible improvement (I'll have to see if the thread I discussed this with Fluf is still on SFC2.Net somewhere).

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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2005, 07:40:03 am »
<cough>OOB<cough>

You should get that cough checked out before it develops into something.  :D
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2005, 07:54:37 am »
11 to 5.   Interesting.

So the general concensus if I read this right is they are cheesy but just a little?
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Hexx

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2005, 08:00:58 am »
11 to 5.   Interesting.

So the general concensus if I read this right is they are cheesy but just a little?

The consensus would be that & that you have no idea how to get a good flame war going..  :P
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Offline Hexx

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2005, 08:11:14 am »
And- for the record- the Lyran CF isn't bad, I would suspect it's not used
because when it's out the CWLP- better turn mode,comparable power curve, better weapons suite, is available.
The CC+ also isn't that far behind the  CF, CF has 3 extra power (43-40) and replaces 2 dizzies with the FA Phasers, CC+ with 40 power is still a comparable ship.
Really I think the fed one is regarded as being "superior" as it gives the Feds a ship with an excellent power curve early on.
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Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2005, 08:12:18 am »
The Hydran CF is another ship I don't hear a lot about. Is it because they don't fly well under "typical" Hydran tactics (ie, they fly faster than their fighters, aren't great at the close-in smack like a fusion boat, and lose the long-range sniping from the hellbores), or are they just not-flied like Klink fast boats are?

The H-THR is pure shiite.

The H-RNF is more on the cheddar side.  Especially when it is packing Stinger-2's or better.
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2005, 09:08:02 am »

The H-RNF is more on the cheddar side.  Especially when it is packing Stinger-2's or better.

We made this ont up without playtesting it.  Odds are it may be too much.
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Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2005, 09:20:04 am »
Oh, I can agree with that...only time I lost with one so far has been when an AI Z-MEC (AMD Cheese Wiz) chomped thru my 2 groups of Stinger2's in about 10 seconds.

Even with the loss of the fighters, if I had played a better game that time, I could have won.
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762_XC

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2005, 09:21:59 am »
Meh, it still only has 4 Ph-1. Has anyone ever flown one against another CF?

Oh DH  ;D

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Poll for out next Flame War <Snicker>
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2005, 09:24:34 am »
Oh, I can agree with that...only time I lost with one so far has been when an AI Z-MEC (AMD Cheese Wiz) chomped thru my 2 groups of Stinger2's in about 10 seconds.

Even with the loss of the fighters, if I had played a better game that time, I could have won.

never a good game from your opponent, just a bad game on your part...
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