Topic: Van Den Broek's alcubierre metric variant warp space configuration

[Nemesis]

oh he11 no.... I can't stand Worf. He's kinda girlie for a Klingon. Always worrying about how everyone feels about him.

if that don't start an argument.....

Not with me.   

My comments on TOS vs TNG Klingons from another thread.

TOS Klingons:
Created our own technologies.
Kor defeated Kirk. 
Kang took Kirk's ship. 
The Romulans were our client state and bought our ships.
To fight us the Federation needed a Kirk
Squashed tribbles as the vermin they are.  One does not war on vermin one stamps them out.  There is no glory in killing tribbles.

The TNG so called Klingons:
Use Romulan technologies.   (cloaks and Birds of Prey)
Use Federation technologies (photon torpedoes)
Have no culture and must steal one from the Earthers (Hamlet)
They hide their so called war ships with cloaks unless they can attack en masse. 
They are a client state to the Federation.
They had to have a human choose their chancellor.
Rather than condemn a powerful traitor and face the consequences they chose instead to condemn a weak but innocent warrior.
When two WOMEN rebelled they needed the Federation again to save them from the Rebels and their Romulan weaponeers.
Use the phrase "if you were any other man I'd..."  Do it or don't - bluster is not the warrior way.
To control them the Federation only needs a Picard.
Celebrate the Great tribble hunt as a glorious victory.

To me only one Klingon in TNG was cut from the same mold as Kor, Kang and Koloth.

K'Ehleyr and she is half human.  Only she fulfilled her duty with no regard for consequences to herself.   Worf constantly tried to beg off duties.  She traveled in a PROBE because that is what her duty required, Worf complained about 0 g even though he was going to fight the Borg.  She turned down a ship and a council seat that were offered to her as bribes.  True Klingon not a TNG Klingon.  Like a true TOS Klingon she did not respect the Klingons of the TNG era or their traditions.

Can you imagine how Kor or Kang would have handled Q?  With Worf's brute force and growling?  I think not.  Q would not have called one of them "micro brain".

NOTE: Thread Hi-Jack in process 

[prometheus]

oh he11 no.... I can't stand Worf. He's kinda girlie for a Klingon. Always worrying about how everyone feels about him.

if that don't start an argument.....

Not with me.   

My comments on TOS vs TNG Klingons from another thread.

TOS Klingons:
Created our own technologies.
Kor defeated Kirk. 
Kang took Kirk's ship. 
The Romulans were our client state and bought our ships.
To fight us the Federation needed a Kirk
Squashed tribbles as the vermin they are.  One does not war on vermin one stamps them out.  There is no glory in killing tribbles.

The TNG so called Klingons:
Use Romulan technologies.   (cloaks and Birds of Prey)
Use Federation technologies (photon torpedoes)
Have no culture and must steal one from the Earthers (Hamlet)
They hide their so called war ships with cloaks unless they can attack en masse. 
They are a client state to the Federation.
They had to have a human choose their chancellor.
Rather than condemn a powerful traitor and face the consequences they chose instead to condemn a weak but innocent warrior.
When two WOMEN rebelled they needed the Federation again to save them from the Rebels and their Romulan weaponeers.
Use the phrase "if you were any other man I'd..."  Do it or don't - bluster is not the warrior way.
To control them the Federation only needs a Picard.
Celebrate the Great tribble hunt as a glorious victory.

To me only one Klingon in TNG was cut from the same mold as Kor, Kang and Koloth.

K'Ehleyr and she is half human.  Only she fulfilled her duty with no regard for consequences to herself.   Worf constantly tried to beg off duties.  She traveled in a PROBE because that is what her duty required, Worf complained about 0 g even though he was going to fight the Borg.  She turned down a ship and a council seat that were offered to her as bribes.  True Klingon not a TNG Klingon.  Like a true TOS Klingon she did not respect the Klingons of the TNG era or their traditions.

Can you imagine how Kor or Kang would have handled Q?  With Worf's brute force and growling?  I think not.  Q would not have called one of them "micro brain".

NOTE: Thread Hi-Jack in process 

I'm not exactly sure what Kor or Kang could hope to do to Q! 

Now that was a great Star Trek villain, and an inspired performance by John De Lancia...  In the words of John De Lancia, reading the script for Q reminded him of a quote about Byron.  That he was Bad, Mad, and Dangerous to Know...

[Nemesis]

I'm not exactly sure what Kor or Kang could hope to do to Q!

Consider how Worf acted toward Q.  Growling and trying physical assaults.  Would either Kor or Kang have acted that way toward someone with the power of a Q?  Power that Worf was aware of and he did not change his behaviour to be more suitable to the situation. 

Kor or Kang would have adapted their behaviour to match the situation.  Worf is unable to adapt in the face of an enemy that brute force does not cow and cannot defeat. 

[prometheus]

I'm not exactly sure what Kor or Kang could hope to do to Q!

Consider how Worf acted toward Q.  Growling and trying physical assaults.  Would either Kor or Kang have acted that way toward someone with the power of a Q?  Power that Worf was aware of and he did not change his behaviour to be more suitable to the situation. 

Kor or Kang would have adapted their behaviour to match the situation.  Worf is unable to adapt in the face of an enemy that brute force does not cow and cannot defeat. 

Well, I always thought that Worf's trouble was in being too much of a gentleman as it were...  Looking at Klingon ways through rose tinted specs because he didn't live among them...  "Klingons do not lie!"  "Klingons do not take hostages", and then always being shocked when he found klingons who were as cowardly and weasley as any Ferengi...

[KBF-Kapact]

I'm not exactly sure what Kor or Kang could hope to do to Q!

Consider how Worf acted toward Q.  Growling and trying physical assaults.  Would either Kor or Kang have acted that way toward someone with the power of a Q?  Power that Worf was aware of and he did not change his behaviour to be more suitable to the situation. 

Kor or Kang would have adapted their behaviour to match the situation.  Worf is unable to adapt in the face of an enemy that brute force does not cow and cannot defeat. 

Well, I always thought that Worf's trouble was in being too much of a gentleman as it were...  Looking at Klingon ways through rose tinted specs because he didn't live among them...  "Klingons do not lie!"  "Klingons do not take hostages", and then always being shocked when he found klingons who were as cowardly and weasley as any Ferengi...

And not only that, but he had a Trill wife that was tougher than he was. I liked Kehlyr because when she got mad she shouted and broke things. Klingons never really improved after Kang. Having said that, what does anyone here think of Chang? I played Klingon Academy (still do in fact), and I thought they actually did good by Chang. Opinions?

[Nemesis]

Having said that, what does anyone here think of Chang? I played Klingon Academy (still do in fact), and I thought they actually did good by Chang. Opinions?

Hamlet.

[KBF-Kapact]

Having said that, what does anyone here think of Chang? I played Klingon Academy (still do in fact), and I thought they actually did good by Chang. Opinions?

Hamlet.

That mean you liked it? I sure did. I mean, I liked Chang in Star Trek 6.... despite the comments about Klingons and Shakespeare. But that's probably because I like Shakespeare, and Hamlet was my favorite. So of course I liked it. And KA really added depth to the character. It had like 45 minutes of original footage.... 90% of it had Chang....

[Nemesis]

That mean you liked it? I sure did. I mean, I liked Chang in Star Trek 6.... despite the comments about Klingons and Shakespeare. But that's probably because I like Shakespeare, and Hamlet was my favorite. So of course I liked it. And KA really added depth to the character. It had like 45 minutes of original footage.... 90% of it had Chang....

From my earlier post.

Have no culture and must steal one from the Earthers (Hamlet)

[KBF-Kapact]

That mean you liked it? I sure did. I mean, I liked Chang in Star Trek 6.... despite the comments about Klingons and Shakespeare. But that's probably because I like Shakespeare, and Hamlet was my favorite. So of course I liked it. And KA really added depth to the character. It had like 45 minutes of original footage.... 90% of it had Chang....

From my earlier post.

Have no culture and must steal one from the Earthers (Hamlet)

Oh well.... what's life without a disagreement....

[Commander Maxillius]

I believe the Alcubierre metric is what the "warp field" is.  The trick is to create the field from the inside.


Everything related to negative energy could possibly be related to an instance of "subspace", another sci-fi idea that has yet to be discovered.  Negative energy existing "below" space just makes sense to me.

[prometheus]

I believe the Alcubierre metric is what the "warp field" is.  The trick is to create the field from the inside.


Everything related to negative energy could possibly be related to an instance of "subspace", another sci-fi idea that has yet to be discovered.  Negative energy existing "below" space just makes sense to me.

Or it could be that negative energy doesn't actually exist outside some lovely frilly mathematical models that we've invented...  I'd much rather get back to exploring the solar system than waste time on outlandish mysticism...

[Chris Johnson]

Sorry to be a pseudo-philosipher and not contribute scientific gibberish in the thread, but I'd rather see optimism bashing and crumbling the boundries of pessimism and have Humanity move forward in a bright future.  One that might achieve FTL travel, when one realizes there're no limits.  You may disagree with me Prometheus, but no way are you changing my mind in your expression of so, assuming it is so and not something else.
It just irks me (is "irk" a word?) when people say "It can't be done." about anything and everything, and seeing how far we've gone to disprove the critics that just can't do anything better than say "We can't."...  But then, I'm beginning to stress absoutes in a world where there are fewer absolutes than expected.

[Tus-XC]

mysticism.... well since this is a theory based on another theory(relativity)  that means relativity must be mysticism... hmmmm.   as i have said before we have yet to confirm einstiens theories on relativity and special relativity into laws, and until then anything is possible.  there is really one really well known law in physics, the Law of conservation of energy, so as long as whats being suggested don't break that then it works now don't it.

btw, i seem to recall this same thinking when man tried to fly, when man broke the sound barrier, and when man went into space...

[Commander Maxillius]

mysticism.... well since this is a theory based on another theory(relativity)  that means relativity must be mysticism... hmmmm.   as i have said before we have yet to confirm einstiens theories on relativity and special relativity into laws, and until then anything is possible.  there is really one really well known law in physics, the Law of conservation of energy, so as long as whats being suggested don't break that then it works now don't it.

btw, i seem to recall this same thinking when man tried to fly, when man broke the sound barrier, and when man went into space...

There are still people who think the Moon landing was done on a soundstage in Area 51 

[Chris Johnson]

There are still people who think the Moon landing was done on a soundstage in Area 51 

http://badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

[prometheus]

Sorry to be a pseudo-philosipher and not contribute scientific gibberish in the thread, but I'd rather see optimism bashing and crumbling the boundries of pessimism and have Humanity move forward in a bright future.  One that might achieve FTL travel, when one realizes there're no limits.  You may disagree with me Prometheus, but no way are you changing my mind in your expression of so, assuming it is so and not something else.
It just irks me (is "irk" a word?) when people say "It can't be done." about anything and everything, and seeing how far we've gone to disprove the critics that just can't do anything better than say "We can't."...  But then, I'm beginning to stress absoutes in a world where there are fewer absolutes than expected.

I'm not the one who said it can't be done, I just happen to agree with the logic of the man who did...  This is not pessimism, it is simply the separation of useful endeavours from fruitless ones...  There is a solar system out there that belongs to mankind, and it's waiting to be explored and exploited, and this FTL horsesh*t is a distraction from that... 

Everybody loves watching Captain Kirk travel at warp nine to intercept some angry Klingons, but show something infinitely more fascinating, like say, Pete Conrad travelling a quarter million miles to land 200 yards from Surveyor III and everyone complains to the Network that they are missing a repeat of the Lucy Show...

FTL stretches the credibility of even the most liberally speculative scientists to breaking point, and I have no liberal instincts at all when it comes to science...  When I was twenty years old, I loved pouring over Kaluza Klein Theories, Many World Interpretations and Faster Than Light Theories etc, but now that I'm older and hopefully a little bit wiser, I've felt that these crazy theories do little or nothing to advance mankind in thought or in action, and that science only works with its feet planted on the ground; that basing future endeavours on outlandish unprovable theories is a regression to Medievel times...

[prometheus]

mysticism.... well since this is a theory based on another theory(relativity)  that means relativity must be mysticism... hmmmm.   as i have said before we have yet to confirm einstiens theories on relativity and special relativity into laws, and until then anything is possible.  there is really one really well known law in physics, the Law of conservation of energy, so as long as whats being suggested don't break that then it works now don't it.

btw, i seem to recall this same thinking when man tried to fly, when man broke the sound barrier, and when man went into space...

I don't recall any physical law that prevented sound being outtraced, that precluded flying or that stopped men from going into space...

However, I do seem to recall a Scottish physicist and a Swiss-German patent clerk who made some very profound discoveries about the propogation of light and it's implications for time and space as viewed from reference points of variable Delta V...

[prometheus]

There are still people who think the Moon landing was done on a soundstage in Area 51 

If you quiz these people, they never know anything about the missions...

[prometheus]

mysticism.... well since this is a theory based on another theory(relativity)  that means relativity must be mysticism... hmmmm.   as i have said before we have yet to confirm einstiens theories on relativity and special relativity into laws, and until then anything is possible.

Try doing a Google search under Relativity and Caesium clocks...  Relativity has resisted many and every attempt to falsify it...  Warp Theory has resisted none...

Based on man in the future having conjectural abilities to fold space time into a bubble and then move said bubble blah blah blah...  And then to make matters worse, you have to fold spacetime into something akin to a three space and time dimensional mandelbrot set with an absolutely gargantuan surface area to volume ratio...  then you're going to have to find a way to slip a living person in and out of this bubble, or create the bubble around them without killing them, and then you are going to have to find a way to make massive energy sources move through warped space at high speed to maintain your bubble...  The idea is worse than ludicrous...  I'm not being pessimistic here, just applying some basic common sense...

[Stormbringer]

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/index.htm

NASA Advanced Propulsion Home Page

NASA apparently has a more sensible view of such "useless" "pie in the sky" propulsion efforts.